Interesting take on aftercare (Full Version)

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SimplyMichael -> Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 10:33:19 AM)

This was posted on another site by SherynB and yes, I do have permission to repost it. CM tends to be a bit fluffy and thought this would make some red meat for the posters here.

I'm starting a protest against The Cult of Aftercare. Not a total boycott, just a little "hey...over here...there's a different point of view."

The phrase "The Cult of Aftercare" popped out of my mouth as a question at a Twisted Tryst class discussion on Sadism led by Unkle P and Wilson, about how they manage the fact that it can be damned hard to suddenly switch gears and be sweet and cuddly after a really good sadistic scene. I already knew that neither of them, barring a real psychological emergency, is particularly inclined to make that shift, and as far as I know, don't typically "do" aftercare. At least not in the way it's traditionally thought of. It's not a unique trait among sadists, and one that is unfairly vilified. Furthermore, it's not a unique trait among masochists...particularly emotional masochists...but one for which their partners are often unfairly vilified.

I understand how it happens. Everybody reads the 101 books and articles. Safety is key. We teach toddlers to never, ever touch the stove or cross the street alone...and it's important to explain to the rank newbie that after you do that thing that gets your rocks off, you gotta hang around to make sure the person you did it with is okay too. Oh, and, here's some yummy things you can do to help that along. There's even a budding understanding growing out there that sometimes the person that did the doing needs some checking in on by the person they did it to. But somewhere along the way we seem to have lost some of the nuances in message, and left the impression that every scene must end with a soft cuddly blanket, lots of hugs, and the undivided attention of a cooing top for a quivering bottom rendered emotionally helpless by the intensity of the scene.

Balderdash.

NOT EVERYBODY NEEDS OR WANTS "AFTERCARE".

Sometimes the whole point of the scene is to wallow in the muck and the filth and the humiliation. Sometimes the point is to be torn down and be left to put YOURSELF back together again. Sometimes the point is that you are strong enough, and powerful enough to claw your way out of the dirt, clean up the mess, and go process the places it took you. Sometimes the point is to crawl off someplace and masturbate furiously until you've milked every bit of pleasure out of the bruises on your body and soul. Sometimes the scene isn't MEANT to be over for days or weeks or months to come. Sometimes it was just fun, and now it's over, and you're done. No dessert required, thank you.

So, to you well-meaning darlings rushing toward that puddle on the floor in dismay...um...NO. She isn't "okay", and she doesn't want to be. You asking is destroying her headspace, and she's very likely to slug you if you try to hug her. Even if she's crawling toward her tent or bag or corner or shivering in a puddle of something disgusting...she doesn't want your help unless she asks you for it. It is no more right and proper to interfere in the aftermath of a scene than in the scene itself. Your "rescue" is not required. And that "irresponsible" "asshole" who "just walked away" and didn't "take care of her"? He most likely knew exactly what he was doing. To quote a dear friend of mine: "We did all this work to get me INTO this horrible terrible nasty place...why in the world would I want someone to come cuddle me out of it now??" (I use "she" because women seem to trigger the caretaking urge in both men and other women the hardest...and because most of the people that I know who play in this territory actually are women.)

Lest you think it only happens with newbies, who simply don't understand or strangers who don't know the people involved...my pondering started with a room full of experienced players, all friends, from four different states, running the gamut of kinks and experience. We'd gathered for a workshop and a party after, and they'd watched Unkle P (rumored to be a bit of a sadist) beat the hell out of me (at the time, developing a reputation for being somewhat...durable) for more than six hours. There'd been sadistic rope, predicament bondage, fists, a sjambok, a cane the size of a walking stick, ice cubes in personal places, god only knows what else, and ultimately a single tail. We typically play harder than most people are comfortable watching, and even I was a little (happily) surprised that he kept coming back to deliver more humiliation and pain. But we were among friends, and nobody raised an eyebrow. Not even at the end, after a rather extended date with a single tail when I was finally a whimpering, steaming puddle on the floor. Until he responded to my clear surrender by throwing water in my face. THAT stopped traffic in the room. For all but about three of us, who'd played that game before. Two of them laughed...one at me gasping and sputtering in surprise, the other at the wide-eyed faces of the people in front of her, doing roughly the same thing. Me? I'm pretty sure I was too busy coming to care.

Most everybody I know who plays this way has some small way of checking in, or reconnecting, when they are done...which may be hours, days or even weeks later...and likely looks nothing like textbook "aftercare." It's what they want...the right amount of the right thing for them...and they know it, because they know themselves, and usually, each other, well enough to have negotiated what they need. AND THAT'S OKAY.

NOT EVERYBODY NEEDS OR WANTS TO GIVE IMMEDIATE AFTERCARE.

It takes a certain amount of physical, emotional, and psychic energy to access that place inside where the shadow lives...the one that wants to hurt and frighten people until they are screaming, sobbing, fighting back or cowering in fear...drag it out and play hard with it...and put it back again. Everybody has a different experience of it, and some would dispute my characterization of it. Fair enough. But many will agree that when they've reached that place, by the end of a scene, when they've taken their willing partner to that place with them, it is either TOO hard to reverse gears, or they simply don't want to...because it destroys the high of it. Again...to paraphrase my friend, for the other side..."Having done all that work to get to that yummy evil place...why would I want to come out of it to cuddle someone now?" It can be terribly unfair to ask the big bad wolf to turn on a dime and become your sweet soft grandmother, because you're suddenly all done with the game now.

For those people, I think it's important to clarify: there is an enormous difference between the top who prefers not to provide aftercare, and one who is incapable of recognizing a true psychological left turn, in a scene gone bad. None of the people I'm talking about would EVER hesitate to jerk themselves out of the happy headspace to provide all of the necessary aftercare in an instance where a scene goes somewhere that isn't good (in a bad way)...and most have had to more than once. Not everybody is capable of playing responsibly in the places where people's fears, phobias, identity and self-esteem live. Those that are may have a preference for rocking their own high at the end, but they do it only after they've made sure that they've left their partner/bottom in a (relatively speaking) safe place. That isn't necessarily a soft and cuddly, pretty place, that everyone is going to get warm and fuzzy feelings watching.

That means knowing something about the people they play with, TRUSTING the people they play with to know themselves...and to arrange aftercare from some other source if they need it. "Bring your own aftercare" or "borrow some" is a perfectly legitimate approach to a scene between two people whose energy needs are different at the end of a scene. And many times, even when it appears there is none, there are "watchers" that you don't see...friends who know the people involved, who keep watch, run interference if necessary, and subtly 'hold the space', while everybody comes back to earth in their own time and fashion. That is part of the power of the organized scene, and public play in controlled spaces and events.

FOR SOME PEOPLE, "AFTERCARE" IS THE SCENE.

There are some wonderfully sadistic tops out there, who LOVE the part where they turn on that dime, pick up the broken pieces and hug and cuddle and love them back together again. Being the good Daddy, the Loving Dominant, the Sweet Cuddly Top, does it for them, and it's their favorite part of the scene. Power to them, and there are folks who need them and adore playing with them. The are also folks who can't. "Aftercare for tops" stems in part from the fact that there are people who simply can't give that to them. I've been warned as a top AND as a bottom: "I may not want to talk to you for a few days after you do what I've asked you to do. And that's okay. I just need time to process it. We're okay." It's an important thing to know.

I've also seen people, male and female, who use "masochism" as a mechanism to get attention. Lots and lots and lots of it. The physical or emotional pain is not an end in itself, it's the price they pay to be "allowed" to break down and petted and patted and babied back to wholeness when it's done. AND THAT'S OKAY TOO. But be clear and honest with yourself and the people you play with that the point of your scene is not so much the places you go, as the bringing you back. Because it is unfair...to you and to the people you play with...to not understand the difference. If your aftercare is going to take longer than the scene did, be clear on the fact your fetish is the aftercare, and ask for what you want. Or bring it with you.

Which brings me to the final point:

THE EMOTIONAL WELLBEING OF THE BOTTOM IS HIS OR HER OWN RESPONSIBILITY.

I will be dogmatic here. Do not get into the deep end of the pool if you aren't prepared to swim. I am up to my ears with the discussions of the top's responsibility for the emotional well-being of the people they play with.

At the end of the day, we are alone in our skins. The only person who can fix what's broken or bruised in there is you. The only person who knows what you "really" need is you. If you're in this game looking for therapy, fine. But be prepared to do your OWN work. If you need a therapist to help you do that, get one with proper credentials and pay them for their time. But even there, in the end, you're still going to have to be the one that decides who you are and what you're capable of.

If you are going to ask somebody to play with your pain, your fears, your phobias, your self-esteem, your core emotional identity...you need to have done some work of your own, and be prepared to do more.

The people you play with are responsible for watching out for your physical and apparent emotional safety, recognizing your stated limits, attempting to figure out how to get you where you want to be and when you've had enough, and stopping before you come to real harm...TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY. And at some point or other, if you play hard...the best of them will miss something, and you will get hurt, or disappointed, or scared or let down. We all have hidden landmines, in our bodies and our minds, that can take us to places we didn't anticipate. Any good top will do their best to be supportive and caring, and help you find your way back again. But ultimately it's YOUR work to do.

As a sadist or a masochist, you are responsible for knowing what you want, knowing what your limits are, what your needs are, caring enough for yourself to HAVE SOME of both, and providing for your own physical and emotional safety...whatever that means to you. In many cases that means finding someone you can trust to play with, and taking the time to let that trust build with experience. And even then...the best of intentions and plans will fail sometimes. Dealing with that is part of the game.

There are very emotionally aware and mature people who deliberately ask to go to very ugly places for well-considered reasons of their own. There are also very emotionally unstable people who ask to be abused (or to abuse you) for reasons they do not understand and will not do the work to process. It pays to learn to recognize the difference before you find yourself feeding an emotional black hole that can never be filled. And it is that latter category that scares me the most...the fundamentalist wackos of the Cult of Aftercare, who really believe that somebody from this scene is going to tear them apart and put them back together again and magically "fix their problems" in the process. The Borderline Personalities and unmedicated bipolar disorders and narcissistic personalities who think they are going to find fulfillment at one or the other end of a whip. The ones for whom the scene never ends and neediness goes on and on. They are the most invested in the idea that if they "let you" hurt them, you have become personally responsible for the blackness of their emotional void. Run. Run away. Do not...do NOT...play.

*****************************

Like everything else in BDSM the presence, intensity and duration of "aftercare" is a preference. No more, no less. One that should be worked out between the parties involved. We need, collectively, to lose the current notion that soft and cuddly aftercare (or anything else, besides consent) is "REQUIRED" for responsible BDSM play. Hell, it might be fun to come up with a new word for the concept of the OPPOSITE of sadism and masochism...sexual gratification from the giving and receiving of pain. What is the word for sexual gratification from the giving or receiving of comfort? We oughta be able to put that one on our lists, too.

***Special note here: I have borrowed a lot here from discussions with friends, and classes with people I respect. So much that I cannot separate or quote adequately or accurately. But I owe a lot of my understanding and opinions to classes and discussions with Unkle P, Wilson & Lora, Phantom, BoringJen, and many, many educators and friends. I hope they'll add their comments, too.




sexyred1 -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 10:56:43 AM)

All very interesting.

The final point being is that like everything else we do, it boils down to preferences and you cannot judge someone else's preferences on how they wish to be treated.

Some of your points about being a strong, healthy, self aware individual who should be able to pull him or herself out of the dirt with no further help are valid. But the important point; is that someone like me (as I can only speak of my own experiences) who is a very strong woman and has always been incredibly self aware about the why, what and how I do in this arena; no matter how far down I go, I want to engage in this behavior with someone I care about and who cares about me.

Therefore; even though I can perfectly deal with my own aftercare, I don't wish to. In the type of relationship I want, it will encompass a myriad of different elements, only one of which, is BDSM and needing aftercare.

So, the person I am with, should care about what I care about and if he has been able to bring me to my darkest, deepest place, then he should be able to bring me to my lightest less intense place in equal time and with equal passion. In my last, very intense and long relationship, my partner was the most able of any man I know to bring to my knees and fulfill that dark passion. However, he ended up not being interested in helping me back up and that is part of why I ended things with him.

He never understood why I wanted him to be there for the aftermath or what I needed from him, simply because he does know me as a strong woman who participated equally in the spiral. But part of my strength is my recognition that I have a right to have a partner who values all sides of me, not just that side.

As always, we are all different and have differing needs and desires and what we expect and accept will vary.

Edited to add: I don't play in public, so perhaps I missed the point of the thread.




Contesa -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 11:00:41 AM)

Wowww....  I am so glad that someone is putting this out there.  Personally I really hate watching a scene where the sadist is getting his grove on and then at the end of the scene, you see him become this nice, sweet cuddle rug.  Ugghhhh.  Like you mentioned above, I like to have my own space afterwards.  It may be at his feet but I absolutely don't want to be coddled.




Arpig -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 11:03:08 AM)

Pretty good stuff Mike, not much that one can disagree with. Each person is different in their needs and expectations.




SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 11:09:47 AM)

This is a shining example of why I don't play in public.  I know what I'm trying to accomplish and what I've negotiated with the person under me.  I don't need or want anyone else ruining my work or my headspace.




wyngedbyste -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 11:11:06 AM)

Is this only about aftercare for the bottom? And is this the focus of your post? I read the post twice, but I could still have misunderstood. I have a comment about aftercare for the top, but I don't want to derail the thread.

Lady Byste




Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 11:34:38 AM)

Any time people get hung up on a one wayism, they are selling themselves short of this responsible concept - JUDGMENT CALLS.

There a number of things in the Opening Post that connected and resonated with me, and applies to both sides of the coin. I thinking back to the first time, I played raped somebody. There was no immediate aftercare. In fact she disappeared to another room of the house for what seemed like an eternity. I was sitting there on the couch, wrapping my mind around it all, crawling back out from underneath all the dirt! She was off Masturbating her brains out. It actually took some time before she reappeared. There was no jumping straight into some immediate aftercare stage right after play. Sure, we talked about it. However, the thoughts lasted for weeks on end afterwards.

Personally, I think people need to take into consideration... that they need to figure out what is or is not right for THEM! Use a little common sense and make a few Judgement calls on this stuff. (Just saying)







crazyml -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 11:39:26 AM)

<FR> (longer reply later)

I have no idea where this supposed "cult of aftercare" came from, I have no experience of it. Nor have I ever heard that aftercare should be "soft and cuddly" - so this rant seems rather pointless to me.

If the point is that different people need different things, then fuck me sideways if that's some kind of revelation to anyone.

Personally I disagree with the idea that the sub's (or the dom's ) well being is solely their affair, in fact I think it's bullshit. If you are willing to beat someone you should be willing to deal with the consequences and if that means reassuring the other party then you'd have to be a cock just to walk away. Sure, you might have a preference for subs who don't make themselves that vulnerable but if your actions cause distress then you need to take responsibility.





leadership527 -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 12:18:51 PM)

quote:

THE EMOTIONAL WELLBEING OF THE BOTTOM IS HIS OR HER OWN RESPONSIBILITY.

Not for me. Not for Carol. My emotional well being is her problem and vice versa.

Insofar as your larger topic on aftercare, I totally agree. This seems to me to be, exactly as you said, another bit of BDSM dogma like "SSC", safe words, and the like. Carol and I have sex... which may involve some SM nowadays although nothing that anyone here would consider "edgy". When we're done, we do what comes naturally. We do not have some sort of agenda that we must tick off todo items from.




juliaoceania -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 12:28:39 PM)

I would agree with one thing, my individual emotional well being is my own problem. My well being (and my partner's well being) within a relational context is "our" problem... If I am in a relationship with someone, and he doesn't think how he treats me contributes to my well being, or the lack thereof, that is not the relationship for me. Likewise, if I do not think how I treat my partner contributes to his well being, or the lack thereof, I would not expect the other person to stay with me.

Aftercare is often put in terms of what the bottom wants or needs, but tops want and need it too, sometimes. Some tops feel the need for human connection after they beat their partner senseless, they need a soft landing from top space. If I am with someone, and our aftercare needs are extremely different, and even antithetical to one another (he wants to cuddle, I wanna be alone), well that is a relationship problem, because someone isn't getting their emotional needs met within the context of the relationship

As far as the OP, I do not know if it revolves mostly around the public play scene, and not one on one serious relationships... so I cannot respond to that...




wyngedbyste -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 12:51:34 PM)

I was going to bring up aftercare for tops, but wasn't sure it was the topic of the thread. Everyone focuses on aftercare for the sub. Tops need it, too. It's frightening to look into the abyss and see what you really are. Aftercare can provide an anchor. Sometimes it seems that subs make aftercare all about them. I guess that's just a mismatch in expectations.

Lady Byste




DesFIP -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 1:21:57 PM)

Actually, I think it's more likely that only experienced bottoms don't need aftercare. Newbies aren't used to what happens and how they feel and they're more likely to need help putting themselves back together.

But I have to tell you, if The Man, on that first play meet, got up, got dressed and said I had to put myself back to normal - we wouldn't have had a second meet. It's my responsibility, once I had enough experience to know what I needed, to negotiate it with a new top. It's also my responsibility to turn down any guy who isn't willing or able to help me get myself back together.

I've had days where I'm shaking too much to hold a water glass and have needed him to do that for me. Telling me "fuck you bitch" would not put him on my list of top ten men. And if he knows he's unable to do anything for me after, then it is his responsibility to tell me that equal to my responsibility to ask for what I need ahead. Not bothering to mention it, especially to someone with limited experience comes across as him just wanting to get his rocks off no matter what. I find that manipulative and deceitful myself.




mynxkat -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 1:49:30 PM)

What I got out of that well written post (imo, anyway) was that aftercare for bottoms OR tops is another if the myriad aspects that should be worked out and communicated about and negotiated both ways before either side of the kneel has any sort of scene or playtime, public or private. And even then, wants and needs can change, for either person, from session to session, and the other partner needs to be open to communication about this.

Hell, there are times when I want, even need lots of cuddling after some sorts of intense play sessions, and other times when I just want to lay there and bask for a bit, and still yet others where I bounce right up and go find something to DO to burn off some of the energy still fizzing in me; as well as there being times when Master is the one that wants to cuddle afterwards, or bounces up and rushes off to burn off excess energy. We've learned to communicate well enough and effectively enough that if we happen to be going opposite directions, we still manage to meet in the middle, at least enough to satisfy each of our needs of the moment.




Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 1:50:35 PM)

This is another issue! Actually defining "Aftercare" on the personal level. The needs and wants of people vary from person to person. I can imagine some people would prefer to be tossed a container of Ben & Jerry's ice cream with a spoon and be left alone for awhile. Some might want a blanket and simply be held for awhile without any talking. Some people might end up talking right away. I myself am having a difficult time with this. It's not something I sit and consciously try to define and put inside some neat little box.

It always amuses me to see people jump to the worse case scenarios or conclusions at times. I actually hate this form of convergent thinking. It actually not very intelligent either. Unlike Divergent thinking. Then there's this whole matter of Cognitive Dissonance. People might piss themselves if they truly realized how much their choices/thought are programmed inside their head. A lot of this stuff, totally ain't logical nor rational at times. Sure Fear is a good thing, but it's not always rational. Some people are stuck seeing things one way and one way alone (Convergent thinkers). Just amazes me.





juliaoceania -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 2:25:17 PM)

quote:

Actually, I think it's more likely that only experienced bottoms don't need aftercare.


It always varied for me, but I have to say I need aftercare in new relationships more than I ever have in established ones. In other words, it is a little bit like bonding for me....

Also, like afterplay, it is fun and comforting to connect with someone I care for, even if I don't "need" it. I wouldn't want a relationship that never had it, let me put it that way.




Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 3:05:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Aftercare is often put in terms of what the bottom wants or needs, but tops want and need it too, sometimes. Some tops feel the need for human connection after they beat their partner senseless, they need a soft landing from top space. If I am with someone, and our aftercare needs are extremely different, and even antithetical to one another (he wants to cuddle, I wanna be alone), well that is a relationship problem, because someone isn't getting their emotional needs met within the context of the relationship

Thank you, some people don't seem to get this.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 3:10:00 PM)

Have to agree with you here Red. Admittedly, I speed read the post, but it seems that there is a big difference between the people who "play" and "scene" at public gatherings and people engaged in relationships that occur privately.

What I find really interesting is not the people engaged in the public play scene (which although not for me, I have no issues with, sorry if it sounds that way), saying they want/need this that or the other thing, top or bottom, but the spectators who complain about what the players are doing. I mean, really, WTF? You wanted to watch, you watched, did you fill out a ballot listing what you wanted the people to do before, during or after? As I type that, I imagine that somewhere at some play party, people are doing just that (or I have now given them the idea), and if that is the case, cool. But if you voluntarily decided to watch the scene, you get what they decide to show you, get the fuck over it.

As with anything else, communication is key between the people involved, which again, doesn't include the spectator (necessarily). It does seem that the "standard" or "norm" is that aftercare is needed/wanted/given, so if the top or the bottom has different views, I do think they have an obligation to speak up to their play partner, so everyone is on the same page.

But again, public play scenes and personal relationship are vastly different things. I'm not saying there aren't those who want no type of aftercare, cuddling or whatever after privately playing, but I would hope that the commonality of those desires exists in a relationship. In fact, that commonality must exist for the relationship to succeed. If that means everyone to their separate corners after play in a relationship or lots of love and kindness, the people involved need to agree and share the same type of need.





juliaoceania -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 3:14:38 PM)

If you play in public because getting spectators is your "thing" (lots of exhibitionists in the world, no harm in it), don't you in some ways invite critiques of your performance? I know how some people are, if I do not want them forming opinions about what I do, then I keep it private...

But that is just me...




LafayetteLady -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 3:30:04 PM)

And a very valid point, JO. But as I said, if that is what you are into have at it. As you said though, knowing how "some" people are, I also prefer to keep things private. Having said that, while the exhibitionist may invite critiques, it is the spectator who believes they have the RIGHT to complain about what they saw that gets me. It is one thing to lament "I really didn't enjoy that part," but quite another to comment "what makes the bottom (or top) believe they have the right to expect such a thing? How pathetic of them."




juliaoceania -> RE: Interesting take on aftercare (5/20/2011 3:33:14 PM)

quote:

it is the spectator who believes they have the RIGHT to complain about what they saw that gets me.


Maybe if they paid the couple in question before they performed next time, they would get the exact performance they were after[:)]




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