RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread)

RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (Full Version)

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HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 12:49:05 PM)
I want to thank everybody who has contributed so far. I've gotten a lot of new perspectives on the issue. I'm going to take a few minutes out to think it all over and maybe rephrase my premise to more accurately reflect both what I wanted to say originally, and the changes in my thinking as a result of all your replies. This is what I call learning, and its fun!! <But neither dominant or submissive [:D])

PeonForHer -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 12:53:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ParappaTheDapper On the one extreme are people who are disdainful of any act of force, people for whom any sort of bondage or aggression is ceremonial and ritualized and who insist on total obeisance fro their submissive(s). At this extreme, the dominant often expresses a belief that any submissive who requires an ounce of coercion or brutality is "not a true submissive." Interesting. That's reminded me of how I felt when I first turned up at CM. Dommes seemed to be quite disdainful of 'forcing' subs. It wasn't about 'her power', it was about the depth of his submissiveness. That was counterintuitive for me: vanilla GFs in the past who'd displayed what I'd now call submissive traits were very, very much into 'inciting' physical force from me.

PeonForHer -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 12:55:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather This is what I call learning, and its fun!! <But neither dominant or submissive [:D]) Where's your other half, Heather? I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear from her. No pressure, mind. [;)]

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 1:23:45 PM)
OK, rather than try to restate my OP, because my thinking has changed over the course of the thread so far, I’m going to slightly modify my question (hopefully more clearly) to focus the discussion on what is of particular interest to me at this point. There is a particular flavour of dominance that holds that there is something inherently dominant or submissive in certain sex acts or positions. In order to avoid gender issues with the style, I’m going to call this the “Action” style. The opposing view, which I’ll call the “Reason” style, is that the act itself doesn’t matter so much as the reason behind it. Tazzygirl’s example of the blowjob defines this very well; the act is both submissive and dominant at the same time, based on the perceptions and reasons of the participants. Now, based on the posts on these boards, the majority of the proponents of the “Action” style seem to be men. My question is why do you think this is? The answers suggested so far have basically been as follows: 1. They are HNGs. This sounds like some one-true-way talk to me. You don’t agree with them so they must be HNGs? Besides the idea came from Focus50’s thread, and he hardly strikes me as an HNG. 2. Because men are more visual. I have trouble with this one because, as I stated before, I don’t find this to be true in my limited experience. I also have a little trouble seeing how being more visual would lead one to consider an act more or less submissive. I suspect I’m missing something here though, so if anybody wants to elaborate on this idea I’d appreciate it. 3. It has to do with social conditioning. This is where my current thinking leans. This seems to me to be the most likely reason. 4. Its all very interesting and confusing (Thanks for being so enlightening Parappa). <Just kidding, you know I luvs ya!>

mummyman321 -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 1:29:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather quote: I see it more as mental and physical combined for men. I have played on both sides of the fence and for me the tactile very much feeds the mental and vise versa. I'm pretty sure that the Dommes would agree with you that its both mental and physical for them as well. I guess I should have thought out my OP a little better. It seems some people are a little confused by what I was getting at, and in trying to clarify, I find I am as well. Lets try this. for men it is physical/mental, for women it is mental/physical. Does that make sense? Do not take our resistance in the wrong way. Your posting made you think and made us think as well. And that's what it is all about! [:D]

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 1:31:32 PM)
Great first thread! quote: What I’m thinking is that this difference is a very fundamental one: male dominance is physically based and female dominance is mentally based. I don't think there's a thing wrong with your premise, but I would word it a bit differently: As a general rule, male dominance stems from a physical desire to dominant; female dominance stems from a mental desire to dominant. How that desire is carried out differs for each person and each situation, but I agree there is a fundamental difference in the underlying impulses that drive males and females to dominant someone. I think it has to do with nature (how are brains are wired) and nurture (how society has taught us to handle emotion). Men's brains and emotions are compartmentalized, women's brains and emotions have more connectivity. Here is a relativity short article on the differences between male and female brains: http://medicaleducationonline.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46&Itemid=69

TheCabal -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 1:34:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather OK, rather than try to restate my OP, because my thinking has changed over the course of the thread so far, I’m going to slightly modify my question (hopefully more clearly) to focus the discussion on what is of particular interest to me at this point. There is a particular flavour of dominance that holds that there is something inherently dominant or submissive in certain sex acts or positions. In order to avoid gender issues with the style, I’m going to call this the “Action” style. The opposing view, which I’ll call the “Reason” style, is that the act itself doesn’t matter so much as the reason behind it. Tazzygirl’s example of the blowjob defines this very well; the act is both submissive and dominant at the same time, based on the perceptions and reasons of the participants. Now, based on the posts on these boards, the majority of the proponents of the “Action” style seem to be men. My question is why do you think this is? The answers suggested so far have basically been as follows: 1. They are HNGs. This sounds like some one-true-way talk to me. You don’t agree with them so they must be HNGs? Besides the idea came from Focus50’s thread, and he hardly strikes me as an HNG. 2. Because men are more visual. I have trouble with this one because, as I stated before, I don’t find this to be true in my limited experience. I also have a little trouble seeing how being more visual would lead one to consider an act more or less submissive. I suspect I’m missing something here though, so if anybody wants to elaborate on this idea I’d appreciate it. 3. It has to do with social conditioning. This is where my current thinking leans. This seems to me to be the most likely reason. 4. Its all very interesting and confusing (Thanks for being so enlightening Parappa). <Just kidding, you know I luvs ya!> I think you're on to something with social conditioning - and that social conditioning tends to be reinforced: submissives often expect certain behaviors from dominants based on their sex. As you've noted, it's not a hard-and-fast rule though. There are VERY physical Dommes, and VERY mental Doms. FWIW, personally, I don't consider the physical side of all of this very fulfilling. If you're bigger and stronger, it's not at all difficult to physically overpower someone. But you can control a body without controlling the mind. Control the mind though, and you have both.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 1:36:37 PM)
You have mail Peon

littlewonder -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 1:40:43 PM)
I'm hetero and so my perspective is coming from that side. I admit for me certain acts and positions are submissive. Others are dominant. Being taken doggie style is submissive. Him on top is dominant. It may seem stupid to some but for me that's just how it is. When the ex used to make me fist him the last thing I felt was submissive. There was nothing about that that made me feel submissive even though he kept telling me that by doing it by his orders then I should feel like his slave...yeah, that didn't work for me one tiny bit.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 1:50:10 PM)
I'm glad you decided to post Ma'am, you're many years experience on both sides of the dynamic make you somewhat uniquely qualified to address this question (in my mind at least). quote: As a general rule, male dominance stems from a physical desire to dominant; female dominance stems from a mental desire to dominant. That's an interesting idea. unfortunately, given my near-zero experience with men, I'm not really in a situation to judge it fairly. That being the case, I'm going to throw this one to the jury so to speak, and let the others with more relevant experience weigh in on this idea. quote: I think it has to do with nature (how are brains are wired) and nurture (how society has taught us to handle emotion). Which do you think is the more telling factor? Myself, I'm unsure at this point. my thoughts on it are not clear yet. I'll have to either get clarification from another poster's reply, or just think it through some more.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 1:56:41 PM)
quote: I admit for me certain acts and positions are submissive. Others are dominant. Being taken doggie style is submissive. Him on top is dominant. It may seem stupid to some but for me that's just how it is. littlewonder I'm so glad you replied. It's nice to get a perspective that goes utterly counter to my basic ideas. I had it in mind that submissives, and especially female submissives would be of a very different mind set. Please, if you don't mind, since you're the only one so far to advocate the "Action" style, would you elaborate a little as to why you find certain positions and such to be dominant or submissive.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 2:02:04 PM)
quote: Which do you think is the more telling factor? Myself, I'm unsure at this point. my thoughts on it are not clear yet. I'll have to either get clarification from another poster's reply, or just think it through some more. I think when you look at human behavior, it's always a spectrum, it's never either or. That men and women have different brain wiring and different socialization, that doesn't make all men or all women the same. There are various degrees as to how much nature or nurture is going to influence the individual. Which is a very round a bout way of saying that is a great question with no easy or definable answers.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 2:14:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather littlewonder I'm so glad you replied. It's nice to get a perspective that goes utterly counter to my basic ideas. I had it in mind that submissives, and especially female submissives would be of a very different mind set. Please, if you don't mind, since you're the only one so far to advocate the "Action" style, would you elaborate a little as to why you find certain positions and such to be dominant or submissive. I believe littlewonder's position to be the most "typical" for female slaves, and subs who lack switch tendencies. This is why sub women are drawn to "action-oriented" dominant men, who, for example, believe their own anus is exit only, no prostate massage thank you very much. In my personal experience, it is easy to find women who want to be tied up and whipped, but it is extremely difficult to find women who like to be whipped, but who are also willing to spank me say 10% of the time, and still view me with respect.

Tantriqu -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 2:30:13 PM)
Interesting: I'm finding it's a black'n'blue rainbow. As we can see there is no 'doms are from Mars, dommes are from Venus' compartmentalisation bullshit here. Experiences and desires vary considerably. What is far more prominent is we're all individuals [hears in the distance a Pythonesque 'I'm not' from the peanut gallery]. Put forth any stereotype on testosterone vs estrogen, you will get various responses, including from me: Physical vs mental: both for me: strong man kneeling for me: tingle Attracted to physical over mental: no fucking way: couldn't care less about the dumbass highschool jock/MBA types who are crap to others and crap in bed: give me the whipcrack smart and amusing geeks! Visual vs verbal: both for me: strong man bending over and whispering, 'Take me': tingle tingle Sadism vs pleasure: column B for me Receiving vs giving pleasure: two from column A, one for column B, although was another revelation that some subs refuse to receive physical pleasure Pros is hos vs will play for pay column A Position/action = dominance: no. Love having a tongue in my ass. Some subs are completely captivated by giving that pleasure, some by receiving it Foreplay/aftercare: both Will top a bottom: no fucking way Will switch: no fucking way Love and respect the submissive/opposite gender as the other side of a perfect coin vs misandrony/misogyny: always and ever column A Thanks! thought-provoking

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 2:33:14 PM)
quote: In my personal experience, it is easy to find women who want to be tied up and whipped, but it is extremely difficult to find women who like to be whipped, but who are also willing to spank me say 10% of the time, and still view me with respect. And see, as a switch I just don't have this issue. I can tell a sub male exactly how to do A, B, or C, w/o losing respect. But then I tend toward the mouthy bratish sub who doesn't like to grovel. It seems like those who are the more extreme end of the spectrum (dom or sub) are attracted to each other, and have more fixed ideas about this issue. Edited b/c I forgot which thread I was responding to.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 2:40:13 PM)
Can you successfully switch with the same person? Many women cannot. They have a person in their life who is a dom, and another who is a sub. I have certainly met women who are "just kinky, let's do it all," but they seem to be very much in the minority.

IceDemeter -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 2:41:34 PM)
Great first thread! I'm wondering if you are seeing things this way because many men don't articulate feelings, but can easily articulate actions. In my personal experience I have found that the mental / emotional aspect of control is just as important to men, but it's not something that they could easily explain or would see a need to detail on a public forum. From what I've run across, most men see the mental / emotional aspect as being far more intensely personal and private than most women do, and keep that between themselves and their partners. Actions, on the other hand, can be considered more impersonal, and so are easily discussed in public. Thinking back over the years of sitting with groups of women or men discussing their first sexual encounter with someone, the women most often would detail how things made them feel, while men would most often just give physical descriptors. It's not that the men didn't feel anything or that their feelings weren't important - it's just not something that they were comfortable sharing. There are definitely men who post here who are the exception to what I'm stating - it's just a generalization of my personal experience. I personally ascribe dominance or submission to the person / personality --- the physical acts are neutral.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 2:42:45 PM)
quote: Which is a very round a bout way of saying that is a great question with no easy or definable answers. Boy, you and Parappa are so helpful <kidding>. I'm still not sure of the relevence, or which it side of the nature/nurture question it points to, but one thing I have noticed is that the basic acts that seem to be considered to have a lot of "masculine" dominance (blow jobs, doggie style, anal) seem to involve either an act that isn't immediately physically pleasant for the recipient (meaning unlikely to result in an orgasm by itself) or somewhat depersonalizing (doing it from behind means you don't have to look at her face, so she could be just anybody, she's reduced in a way to an anonymous wet hole). These are also the most popular types of porn, as far as I can see from checking out the various free clips sites. This leads me to think that it isn't so much a male dominant thing as a male thing (I say that because porn is made primarily for the male market). Like I said, I'm not sure the significance of these "facts" just yet, but I'm pretty sure they are relevant to the whole discussion.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 2:44:46 PM)
I can successfully do as he desires me to do.. and have no problems knowing who is in charge or ever fear I may lose respect for him.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) (5/28/2011 2:48:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 Can you successfully switch with the same person? Many women cannot. They have a person in their life who is a dom, and another who is a sub. I have certainly met women who are "just kinky, let's do it all," but they seem to be very much in the minority. Whatever turns you on turns you on, why can't you enjoy some sensations because somebody has deemed and labeled them as submissive or dominant? I'm not submissive, often wish I would at least have a bit of that in me so I would know more about it and how it feels, but "subspace" just eludes me and the few times I tried, it turned out to be a disaster, I finally admitted I'm just not wired this way, that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy rough sex or some sensations that another person might label as submissive. We're not screws or nails that can be fitted nicely in boxes with labels on them. It's not a religion with the only twue way, it's supposed to be fun and to be enjoyed, whatever form that enjoyment takes, up to the people who feel it...

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