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RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 4:25:41 AM

Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
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TYVM twice. Just because people have no first hand experience with the users and abusers et al doesn’t mean they don’t exist. What jewel had done was phenomenal and when I see "under the protection of" on a profile, I say, Cool, one less statistic.

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together

(in reply to twicehappy)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 5:15:29 AM

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From: Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

....Imagine if universities required that students serve before allowing them to learn?

And yes, and how ridiculous it would be if they required some prerequisite education before entering college as well?

(the rest is just general reply to the topic)

Somehow I don't think most of the opposing views are based on any real experience with the topic at all, they are simply based on some misconception of what the term "protection collar" refers to. To most, their experience may be in only a chat room venue, where it is nothing more than a virtual collar and NO, it probably has little effect on anyone unless they choose to respect it. In selective cases it has its uses and as with anything, the term can and does get misused creating some question as to its validity. In the proper applications however, it isn't a velcro collar, and is very valuable as a tool. Even if it's nothing more than a reassuring mental tool for someone entering into the lifestyle that is not as stable and confident in their self, as apparently some at least think they are, to make safe and well thought out decisions. I get the impression from many of the comments that if someone wasn't that well grounded, they need not be in the lifestyle at all. I could agree with you till the cows come home, but that wouldn't stop that person from doing so anyway. For that person who is bound and determined to indulge themselves, even though they shouldn't, someone taking them under their wing and bringing them along slowly, correcting their piss poor choices and guiding them is a very necessary part of the process to keep them from becoming a statistic. If you don't like the term "protection collar", fine, you certainly have that right, call it what you want, but if you think it's wrong to offer yourself, your experience and your guidance to someone who is in need....perhaps you need to do a reassessment of your values. Call it mentoring, call it becoming a confidant, call it putting them in a protection collar, call it anything you want, but call it something that your "student", the one you are trying to help follow a safe path to where they want to go, will be able to comprehend as something real to them.
I certainly hope that someone who is in training by a caring and sincere Dominant with good intentions, isn't reading some of the responses to this post and hearing that what "at this time" is very dear to them, isn't real at all. Just like kinks, just because it isn't your thing, doesn't mean someone doesn't do it.

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to CrappyDom)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 5:24:20 AM

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*Wades in through the bullshit posturing, self-importance and pretension, coughing and spluttering to offer her $0.02 *

If a sub isn't emotionally/mentally capable of determining how to 'protect' herself, then frankly, she's in no damn position to give informed consent and shouldn't be participating in BDSM or D/s activities period.
What's the difference between her/him determining who's 'protection collar' to take, and who to submit to in a standard sense? Why is your word any more believable or your experience any more valid than Mr JoeWannaBeHerDom's?

This 'poor little helpless brainless femsub *girl*' attitude irks the bejesus out of me. Submissives are not incapable people possessing any kind of inferior faculties.. they are informed (or should be, should inform themselves) consenting adult women that adopt a role.
THEY are the ones who need to take responsibility for who they submit to and just what garbage they buy into... I think you'd find a lot less victims if those attitudes were disbanded and adult women were made to be as responsible as adult women.

Sure, make as many experienced lifestyle friends as you can.. glean every last piece of information and advice from them as you can.. But ultimately, the responsibility for decisions regarding our submission ends with us.

_____________________________

~To purchase pain with all that joy can give, and die of nothing but a rage to live.~

(in reply to Wulfchyld)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 6:00:27 AM

Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
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Amen!!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: xLilithx

This 'poor little helpless brainless femsub *girl*' attitude irks the bejesus out of me. Submissives are not incapable people possessing any kind of inferior faculties.. they are informed (or should be, should inform themselves) consenting adult women that adopt a role.

_____________________________

~oh

~*~I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not~*~

~she'll tease you, she'll unease you, all the better just to please you~ K.C

~Well would you look at that! My give-a-damn just broke~

(in reply to xLilithx)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 6:04:00 AM

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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xLilithx

*Wades in through the bullshit posturing, self-importance and pretension, coughing and spluttering to offer her $0.02 *

If a sub isn't emotionally/mentally capable of determining how to 'protect' herself, then frankly, she's in no damn position to give informed consent and shouldn't be participating in BDSM or D/s activities period.

This 'poor little helpless brainless femsub *girl*' attitude irks the bejesus out of me. Submissives are not incapable people possessing any kind of inferior faculties.. they are informed (or should be, should inform themselves) consenting adult women that adopt a role.

THEY are the ones who need to take responsibility for who they submit to and just what garbage they buy into... I think you'd find a lot less victims if those attitudes were disbanded and adult women were made to be as responsible as adult women.

Quotes from your profile;

You will understand the issues facing a blossoming disturbed masochistic slut and will have the experience and know-how to guide me through it.

That will understand what I'm trying to describe, even when I don't.

That knows what I mean when I say I need to be 'overwhelmed'.
That wont mind comforting and coddling the scared little girl that
sometimes shares this oh-so-capable body of mine.

I'm looking for an experienced man who can show me myself.

One who understands my need to please him,

Ok so you are not seeking a protection collar, yet according to several statements in your profile you are seeking one to guide you through the process of discovering and fulfilling your submissiveness.

By your own words in your post "poor little helpless brainless femsub *girl*" and " they are informed (or should be, should inform themselves) consenting adult womens" compared to those in your profile "the scared little girl " and " I'm looking for an experienced man who can show me myself."you are disqualifying yourself as being “ready” to participate in the lifestyle.

You are seeking someone to understand your issues with the experience to guide you through them. How is this any different than those seeking the self same thing by accepting a collar of protection?

While you are seeking an individual for (I think) a long term collar to guide you, they are not quite ready for the long term and are simply seeking an individual to guide them until they are ready for the next step. How do you view this as different? What makes you superior to them? Because you are seeking long term and they are not? In the end you are both only seeking to learn from someone experienced.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to xLilithx)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 6:06:19 AM

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Joined: 1/9/2006
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quote:

If a sub isn't emotionally/mentally capable of determining how to 'protect' herself, then frankly, she's in no damn position to give informed consent and shouldn't be participating in BDSM or D/s activities period.
What's the difference between her/him determining who's 'protection collar' to take, and who to submit to in a standard sense? Why is your word any more believable or your experience any more valid than Mr JoeWannaBeHerDom's?

Wooohoo, Lilith! You read my mind. I agree 100%.

_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

(in reply to xLilithx)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 6:09:57 AM

desideratagracef

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Joined: 4/8/2005
From: Johnville/Moncton NB, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xLilithx

If a sub isn't emotionally/mentally capable of determining how to 'protect' herself, then frankly, she's in no damn position to give informed consent and shouldn't be participating in BDSM or D/s activities period.
What's the difference between her/him determining who's 'protection collar' to take, and who to submit to in a standard sense? Why is your word any more believable or your experience any more valid than Mr JoeWannaBeHerDom's?

This 'poor little helpless brainless femsub *girl*' attitude irks the bejesus out of me. Submissives are not incapable people possessing any kind of inferior faculties.. they are informed (or should be, should inform themselves) consenting adult women that adopt a role.
THEY are the ones who need to take responsibility for who they submit to and just what garbage they buy into... I think you'd find a lot less victims if those attitudes were disbanded and adult women were made to be as responsible as adult women.

Sure, make as many experienced lifestyle friends as you can.. glean every last piece of information and advice from them as you can.. But ultimately, the responsibility for decisions regarding our submission ends with us.

Thank you soooo much for writing this, i seem to be having many around me who wish to 'protect me' because of my small stature, roles i enjoy, etc... and your words describe my feelings to this 'overprotectiveness' as of late!

amy

(in reply to xLilithx)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 6:17:51 AM

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Joined: 12/7/2005
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Well Lillith I am sure the government will happily revaluate their practices in light of this revelation. Imagine the money that will be saved with all the DVIS funding cut from the budget as well as, counseling, interventions, all those poor sots convicted of abuse being released from prison etc... Now that we understand that stable women make no bad/uninformed choices and know it all, we can look for the huge tax breaks from the cessation of the afore mentioned programs.

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together

(in reply to desideratagracef)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 6:29:57 AM

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Joined: 10/19/2005
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I see exactly what you're trying to say, Twicehappy.. But you forgot to point out the other parts of my profile that say that I AM uber capable and do not need anybody to do my thinking for me.
D/s is a partnership, one that would render both partners beneficial and of comfort, support, service and guidance to the other.. But absolutely not one that renders the choice of submission as somebody else's responsibility. Even after you've submitted to someone.. the excuse "He was my dom so I just obeyed" for making unwise choices deserves a kick up the arse.

Too many girls are so dying to fill that dominant-shaped hole in their hearts that they will buy into this online nonsense that someone can 'protect' them from stupid decisions because of their inexperience.. Happily handing over the responsibility for themselves and the choices that they didn't make because they're just a 'poor little inexperienced sub'..

Yes, I would like to learn from someone experienced.. but ultimately, what I learn, what I discover and explore and with whom is up to me.. And if I fuck up.. then the blame and lessons are mine too.

The key is responsibility.. and I accept mine.

_____________________________

~To purchase pain with all that joy can give, and die of nothing but a rage to live.~

(in reply to twicehappy)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 6:39:57 AM

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Joined: 10/19/2005
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Where did I say that people don't make mistakes/are perfect etc?.. I must have missed that bit. I also don't believe that I absolved the 'big bad doms' from their part in abuse/ advantage taking..
Of course women make bad and uninformed choices.. The only way to help them stop making the next one though, is for them to make the mistake, take responsibility for their part in it and learn from it. That's how people learn.
Not for someone to come along and pat them on the head and say "It's okay, it's not your fault, you couldn't have known, I will protect you from the big bad doms so that you don't make that mistake again."

< Message edited by xLilithx -- 5/16/2006 6:42:53 AM >

_____________________________

~To purchase pain with all that joy can give, and die of nothing but a rage to live.~

(in reply to Wulfchyld)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 6:49:36 AM

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Lillith, I had some very dear friends chopped up into little pieces by a serial killer. It is a very difficult thing for me, even after 10 years, so I will not discuss it here. That experience has taught me that the little pat on the head is not always an option. Before this had happened I had no clue about life and death and never experienced the loss of anyone. Needless to say, my first funerals were very hard ones. I know better than most, I wont say anyone, that you never know what that stranger, or for that matter, someone you know relatively well is going to do. Everyone with more experience than yourself (general not directed) has insights to people, correspondence, etc... Jewel and her house are experienced and wise people and can most likely read the intent of an e-mail far better than a flattered sub/slave.

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together

(in reply to xLilithx)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 6:57:10 AM

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Joined: 10/19/2005
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Wulf, with all due respect, I am not trying to trivialise what has happened to your friends.. but how is effectively disarming a woman of her senses by not allowing her to make her own mistakes and learn from them by giving her a false sense of protection going to prevent that? In making her decisions for her, you rob her of her own experience.
If you'll notice, at the bottom of my original post, I did say for people to make as many experienced friends as they could and to glean all the information and advice from them that is possible... Not to just go out alone and headfirst into the fray stupidly disregarding an experienced voice.. Just not to pass the buck to them.

_____________________________

~To purchase pain with all that joy can give, and die of nothing but a rage to live.~

(in reply to Wulfchyld)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 7:03:48 AM

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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xLilithx

D/s is a partnership, one that would render both partners beneficial and of comfort, support, service and guidance to the other.. But absolutely not one that renders the choice of submission as somebody else's responsibility.

And again you have missed the point; a collar of protection does not make the decision for someone to be submissive. It offers someone who has made the decision to be a submissive a safe venue, support and an older experienced hand. It renders the one in the collar comfort and guidance, it offers the dominant extending the collar all the same joys as watching a child grow to maturity.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to xLilithx)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 7:05:22 AM

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Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xLilithx
If a sub isn't emotionally/mentally capable of determining how to 'protect' herself, then frankly, she's in no damn position to give informed consent and shouldn't be participating in BDSM or D/s activities period.

Great...now you go out and tell every one of those who fits that category that they can't participate. It would be like telling a kid to stay out of the candy jar, "you can't do that because -fill in the blank-". They will anyway! Granted, I would say the vast majority may not need anyone to watch out for them and help them along, but some do. How do they know who to trust? Good question and I don't know the answer, but at least it limits their bad decision making to one decision, not repeat ones.

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to xLilithx)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 7:29:54 AM

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I just don't see a reason for an adult to need extra protection just because they are in the scene.

Unless they need protection from their own judgement- and then, how can they know they are making the right choice in who will protect them?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to subshine2005)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 7:32:18 AM

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That may be what a protection collar means to you..And though I think them thoroughly demeaning to a woman with any sense of self, I'm sure there are some protection collars that work quite happily between people and fill their needs at the time - which is what counts, despite my opinion and disdain for them... I just think that any dom/me worth their salt would allow the 'child-like' new sub (OMG, words can't express how much that analogy bothers me on so many levels.) to discover things for themselves and not influence them unduly with the kind of blind trust that MUST form within a relationship like that.
I can't think of it as anything other than someone being protected from thinking for themselves.

Then, on the other hand, there is what is meant the other 90% of time when people use the term.. Then, a protection 'collar' means nothing more than an opportunity for an online dom/me to posture before an awed online newbie and feel important..or for a new sub to stick a letter next to their nickname without any of the hard work involved in sourcing and deciding to submit and defer to a dominant.. it has very little to do with actually helping someone and is absolutely about self-gratification and image.

I have never seen one with any useful purpose at all in a physical setting.. though I have seen something similar to the ribbons displayed by the club submissives mentioned earlier... but that has nothing to do with defering to the wisdom of the host, rather avoiding the hassle while the sub is busy - a dual service..

LMAO.. I suppose if I'm going to be drawn into conversation, I should introduce myself. - Hi everybody! I'm Lil.. Always opinionated and outspoken.. So, just how many people have I managed to alienate and offend within my first 10 posts?
Nice ta meet y'all. ;)

_____________________________

~To purchase pain with all that joy can give, and die of nothing but a rage to live.~

(in reply to twicehappy)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 7:39:30 AM

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We just had a huge discussion on this very topic on another thread. I know that my views are in stark contrast to some here (and some that I have the utmost respect for too), but I feel pretty strongly that adults need to take responsibility for themselves, and being in the lifestyle doesn't change that.

Anyhow, for those that are interested, here is the link to the thread.....

http://www.collarchat.com/m_349185/mpage_1/key_protector/tm.htm

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 7:40:01 AM

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lol.. Hiya, Scooter..

Actually, I'm absolutely telling the people that fit in that category to stay away from the BDSM candyshop.. If you're not emotionally/mentally capable of giving informed consent, then you shouldn't be playing..
SHAME on any dom/me that plays with someone they know to be in that category.

_____________________________

~To purchase pain with all that joy can give, and die of nothing but a rage to live.~

(in reply to ScooterTrash)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 7:43:01 AM

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Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
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Scooter,

I am one of those people who actually have a rather vast (meaning in number and size of groups, leadership, events, parties, partners, etc.) real world experience with this stuff, at least compared to most on this board (John Warren being the one clear exception) and I can tell you I have seen more abuse of "collards of protection" than almost anything else other than Gor crap.

My idea of a "collard of protection" is to hand someone the tools to learn for themselves, to teach them to be gloriously independent so their submission means something greater when they find someone worthy of bending their knee. It is sort of the teach a man to fish sort of thing.

Your idea is to print up "don't rape me" shirts and you actually believe they will work. Nice people won't rape a girl wearing one but it sure as hell isn't going to stop a rapist. Actually, a collard of protection isn't even that good. It should read "I am already being raped and have only one hole so wait your turn"

(in reply to ScooterTrash)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 7:44:34 AM

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Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

Anything that will reduce the amount of used, abused, and mislead sub/slaves is 100% Godsend in my book.

ABSOF**KINGLUTELY!!!

(in reply to Wulfchyld)

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