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RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 6:22:10 PM

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
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Najakcharmer,

You wrote:

quote:

There have been times when I have offered to be a newbie's mentor, friend and "protector" in the sense of being available for safe calls and making sure that any prospective partner of theirs knew that an experienced domme would be providing her friend a solid reality check. Would this constitute a "collar of protection"?

No, it would not constitute anything other than you offering your wisdom. What I object to is offering what you have offered above but only if the submissive accepts your control. What you have done is freely given advice with no strings attached. That is what I would call generous.

(in reply to Najakcharmer)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 6:23:17 PM

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From: Sacramento
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Lilith,

If you thought that was funny, wait till I unzip my pants.

(in reply to xLilithx)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 6:30:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

And by the way, why do I find myself agreeing with Loki, and finding others somewhat.... ummmm.... petty, perhaps?

Because you are a smart pup. You are too adorable for words,Thank you btw, congrats on being double domme'd. I get that all the time except it is Dom +Domme, it is the best.

Mistress is still looking for a male subbie, you'd get to share a room with me and my two kittens.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 6:49:31 PM

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From: Toronto
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

Because you are a smart pup. You are too adorable for words,Thank you btw, congrats on being double domme'd. I get that all the time except it is Dom +Domme, it is the best.

Mistress is still looking for a male subbie, you'd get to share a room with me and my two kittens.

I have just a few issues with this arrangement:

1: I'd get double-Dom/med. Me no likey dee cock.

2: Kittens are best pan seared and thinly sliced.

But thank you very much for your words, and your tipoff.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to twicehappy)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 7:02:25 PM

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Scooter is strait benji... it's those girls I dont think you could survive!

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 7:13:42 PM

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From: Toronto
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

Scooter is strait benji... it's those girls I dont think you could survive!

Oh, come on.... They look so nice and c..................owowowowowowowowowowow! That hurAHHHHH!!!

What was that fAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! STOAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

(You get the point)

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to Wulfchyld)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 7:14:31 PM

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Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
What I object to is offering what you have offered above but only if the submissive accepts your control. What you have done is freely given advice with no strings attached. That is what I would call generous.

In the situation I outlined above, one of the things I do for a subbie is screen their prospective partners. If they're smart, they will let their experienced dominant mentor make the decision as to whether or not they should be playing in a particular situation or with a particular person.

99% of the time it's not a problem, I'm glad to be there as a safety monitor at the party or on the other end of a phone for a safe call. But there has been a time or two when I've said something like, "No, I don't think it is a good idea for you to play with this person in this way even though you may want to quite badly, for these reasons." The reasons always had to do with the sub's health and safety, and I always explained them in detail. There have been a few situations and people who have tripped my alarm flags for various reasons, and I've vetoed them as play partners (in the immediate present tense, anyhow) for the specific people I'm mentoring.

The newbie in question was certainly free to disagree with me and end the mentorship, but I would refuse to be responsible for them if they chose to decide that they did not trust me enough to heed my warnings. If they decided that I wasn't the boss of them (which I wasn't) and my warning wasn't worth heeding, it wouldn't necessarily end our friendship, but I would no longer consider myself their scene mentor.

So I guess you could say that there are conditions and "control". The entire point of that control is to substitute the judgement of an experienced BDSM community member for that of a somewhat overeager newbie whose eagerness and inexperience might otherwise get them into an unsafe or unpleasant situation. It's still not about getting into their pants with a hidden agenda. I'm just as willing to be the safe call for a new dom as a new sub, or for a woman as much as a man, and I don't personally play with anything what has icky girl parts. LOL

(in reply to CrappyDom)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 7:18:20 PM

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Fast Reply, response to no one in particular...

From my own writings...

The words "submissive" and "weak" are not synonymous. Submissives are capable and strong people. A lack of self-esteem is not among their hallmarks. Contrary to what seems to be popular conception, they are not passive or in need of a white knight.
Even among submissives, especially those online, the idea that submissives are in need of constant supervision and protection run rampant. According to such, a submissive should not go to dinner with other lifestyle people unescorted. I have to wonder, if said submissive would be safe going to the grocery store, dropping the kids off at school or wandering the local mall or library alone. The notion was that since the event was termed as "lifestyle," a woman should not attend the dinner, also known as a munch, without an escort of some sort because she would be announcing her submissiveness to those present and thereby, put herself in danger of being taken advantage of.
How utterly ridiculous! If ever, at any time, a woman dines alone at a restaurant and feels uncomfortable walking to her car; all she needs to do is ask the restaurant staff for an escort to her car. No dominant, even one of less than stellar intentions and credibility, is going to follow this woman to her car and force himself on her. Is it imagined that this man will talk so smoothly that this poor, gullible female will fall desperately and immediately in love with the man and go with him wherever he asks? Most likely not.
However, there are those among us who think themselves submissive, when they are truly beaten down by life and insecure in themselves and their strength as women. There are also those for whom being victimized is what they truly crave. These women are anything but submissive and, even if they feel they are, they are not prepared mentally or emotionally for submission.
Submission is not a lifestyle, it’s not a gift. Submission can’t be bought or sold anymore than it can be chosen. It either lives within a person, or it does not. Anything else, such as submitting for sexual purposes or masochistic purposes is bottoming. The chasm between a submissive and a bottom is vast and deep.
Do not be afraid to display your strength, my submissive friends. Let your light shine brightly and do not answer the call of the conventional dungeon. If anything, let your mane fall free and roar. Roar, girl, roar

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to Najakcharmer)

RE: protection collar? - 5/16/2006 7:41:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie
The words "submissive" and "weak" are not synonymous. Submissives are capable and strong people. A lack of self-esteem is not among their hallmarks. Contrary to what seems to be popular conception, they are not passive or in need of a white knight.

That would be true for many of the strong, intelligent, feisty and competent adult male and female submissives I have had the privilege of getting to know in the scene.

Unfortunately it's not true for everybody. The people I've ended up mentoring because I felt they were at real risk of running into issues without a mentor usually fit one of the following profiles:

1. Overeager and inexperienced, more often male or MTF than female, with a history of getting themselves into trouble with unsafe or unethical partners who took too much advantage of them. To be specific, if a male sub has a friend in the scene offering him reality checks and a friendly introduction to local events, he's less likely to be a target for the "money dommes" and the gold diggers who will flash tits, ass and whip to get to his wallet. That's probably been my most common mentorship/protection scenario. Yo, wannabe domme biotch. My buddy deserves better than to be exploited for his money, and now he KNOWS better than to let you do it, so go the fuck away because I'm taking him to the next Munch where he can meet some real people.

2. New dominants, all genders (male, female and trans), who wanted to learn about safety and community etiquette.

3. Extremely shy, passive people, about equal numbers of males and females, who had a history of not doing a good job of saying "no" to unethical or unsafe partners. Probably the smallest group, but they do exist.

I don't know that I'd consider mentoring the same as a "protection collar", but under some circumstances I could see incorporating some consensual D/s dynamics into the mentorship if that's what seemed called for at the time, and if that's what made the newbie feel more comfortable.

(in reply to feastie)

RE: protection collar? - 5/17/2006 4:24:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

Mistress is still looking for a male subbie, you'd get to share a room with me and my two kittens.

I have just a few issues with this arrangement:

1: I'd get double-Dom/med. Me no likey dee cock.

2: Kittens are best pan seared and thinly sliced.

But thank you very much for your words, and your tipoff.

On #1) No way, Scooter is straight, but you might get Domme/slave'd. Ha ha see what you are missing

On #2) If that is how you are eating pussy(cats?) it may explain why you are having a little difficulty finding a doghouse of your own.

Sure you will not change your mind? And thank you for much needed smartass, hugs

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

RE: protection collar? - 5/17/2006 7:58:33 AM

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i have thought long and hard about how i wanted to respond to this thread. i have read all the responses and carefully evaluated each one. (i am one who will pick apart a topic, analyze it, then respond)

First let me give Yyou some back ground info so that Yyou know where i come from in my opinion of protectin collars. i met my first Master, while on a nilla date with Him. i didn't know at that time i was submissive. He never told me He was Dominate. He saw the submissiveness in me, and gradually helped me see it in myself. I was collared to Him before long and Wwe lived together with me serving Him for 2 yrs, total time together was 4 yrs. Master was Army and had been for 26yrs, in Oour time together He was deployed often for short deployments due to His speciality. my service to Him ended when He was deployed to Iraq and His return home was to His final resting place.

i was lost and floundering for a year after His death. i had no clue how to search for a new Master. i knew my life was not complete not being owned. So i hit the internet trying to find out where to seek a new Master. i mean it's not like Yyou can look in the local newspaper's want ads for "Master in search of submissive." i found several places to go and make new friends and learn about local gatherings in my area. i joined a chat group and actually met a sister sub and her Master in person from that group. Wwe became close friends. her Master knew the hardships i was facing, not being owned and being held accountable for my actions in day to day life. i am submissive and enjoyed my Domestic Discipline relationship with my first Master. Wwe had long talks about the type Master my Master was, things He held me accountable for, this i was allowed and not allowed to do, things that were expected of me. Wwe talked about things that i had let slide since His death. Wwe discussed my careless search for a new Master.

One weekend when visiting with Tthem, He offered me a collar of protection. He sat down and explained what this collar would mean to all of Uus. the boundries were laid out and were clear. i was asked if this was something that i would want during my search for a new Master. Was this a sign of me being weak, helpless, fragile, emotionally unstable, unable to make my own decisions, unable to concent to safe play, or any of the other derogatory comments that were made about subs accepting collar of protections? NO i don't feel that i was any of that. i looked at Him almost like a Big Brother type person who was just wanting to make sure that i was the best sub i could be, that i handled myself properly in my search, that held me accountable for my actions that were expected of me. There was no sexual contact, innuendos or role play. Oour relationship was simply that of One looking out for another. i was free to make my own decisions about potential Masters, His only request was allow Him to chat with Them and let Him get a feel for that person, He knew my personallity and He wanted to make sure that He felt this new Person was who They claimed to be. There were several times that He was not happy with my meeting someOne, not because He didn't trust that Person, but because He felt i rushed into meeting this Person and didn't take time to get to know Them. Thus i ended up emotionally hurt when it didn't work out. Still He allowed me to fall on my own. As it was not His place to make that decision for me. There was only one time that He strictly forbade me to met a potential Master. He got a bad feeling about this Guy and and He told me red flags were popping up everywhere for Him. i later learned for a submissive that had met with Him prior to my contact with this Guy that He had not honored her limits. i was thankful i didn't have to learn that the hard way. my Protector met my current Master and approved of Him from the very start, His only request was that i take time to get to know Him both online and on the phone before i met Him in person alone. Then when i was ready to met Him in person, He asked that i made sure that i had a safe call set up for each day i was going to be with this potential Master.

Although there is not protocol written in stone any where in how a potential Master collars a submissive who wears a collar of protection, my Potential Master when to my Protector and asked Him if He would approve Oour union. my protector, removed my protection collar, i kissed it, thanked Him, and turned to face the Man that would now own me, Wwe had a very elaborate un-collaring and collaring ceremony. it was one that was very emotional for me and very much real life.

do i think that protection collars work? YES as long as the boounds are spelled out from the get go, as long as the One doing the protecting does not misuse the collar as a way to be sexually active with a submissive, and as long as the submissive is allowed to think for herself and make her own decisions. it worked for me, and i was thankful that i had a Dom who cared enough for me, not to let me bounce around from Dom to Dom in my search for a Master.

Eeach and every Oone of Uus have Oour own opinions on such topics and what works for Oone may not work for Aanother. Does this make that wrong, stupid, less worthy? No, just as my kink may not be Yyour kink and Yyour kink may not be mine, neither Oone of Uus is wrong, Oour opinions just differ.

(in reply to twicehappy)

RE: protection collar? - 5/17/2006 8:21:11 AM

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I am going to make one last stab at this and then I am done.

I have no doubt that collars of protection work for some. I have no doubt there are well intentioned dominants handing them out in a responsible manner.

However, as a CONCEPT, I am against it because OVERALL, the potential for abuse, and the issues I have seen in real life related to it, are too great. So when someone asks me if they should take one, I am always going to tell them they are wrong, explain why, offer up resources for them to learn from, and send them on their merry way. I try to always judge individuals by their actions, and when confronted with someone with a bowl of collars of protection, I am going to do just that.

(in reply to peasantsub)

RE: protection collar? - 5/17/2006 8:31:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

So wait, that collar of protection I'm wearing doesn't give my online Domme the right to access my bank accounts, take possession of my house, online-assrape me with a phone book, and sell my children on eBay???????

To be truly protected from all that you need a collard of protection(they come from California), which i think is made out of green vegetables(maybe spinach). Come live with us and we will turnipped you with a cabbage of courtliness and a carrot of control..

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

RE: protection collar? - 5/17/2006 8:46:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

So wait, that collar of protection I'm wearing doesn't give my online Domme the right to access my bank accounts, take possession of my house, online-assrape me with a phone book, and sell my children on eBay???????

To be truly protected from all that you need a collard of protection(they come from California), which i think is made out of green vegetables(maybe spinach). Come live with us and we will turnipped you with a cabbage of courtliness and a carrot of control..

I am a good little sub. A good little sub is always honest. Honestly, WTF????? Hilarious, but wha???????

Probably one of the funniest thing I have read in a while, despite my not really getting it....

And I would, but I don't want to get turnipped.

Yours,

benji

Edited to add: Now that I understand, I should say I never read the thread in its entirety.

< Message edited by gooddogbenji -- 5/17/2006 9:03:08 AM >

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to twicehappy)

RE: protection collar? - 5/17/2006 8:56:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
I have no doubt that collars of protection work for some. I have no doubt there are well intentioned dominants handing them out in a responsible manner.

A few, but we do exist. I'd suggest that a good set of ethics to use if you are mentoring someone would be along the lines of a thesis advisor/professor to student relationship. Eg, you are NOT having sex with them or using them for your personal gratification, that's unethical and contrary to the purpose of mentoring. If you're gonna collar somebody and have a D/s relationship with them, just do it. But be honest about what you are doing.

quote:

However, as a CONCEPT, I am against it because OVERALL, the potential for abuse, and the issues I have seen in real life related to it, are too great. So when someone asks me if they should take one, I am always going to tell them they are wrong, explain why, offer up resources for them to learn from, and send them on their merry way. I try to always judge individuals by their actions, and when confronted with someone with a bowl of collars of protection, I am going to do just that.

And I would encourage you to continue dispensing this advice, especially to the people I am mentoring. It's good advice. The whole point is for these folks to learn how to come out in the scene as competent adult submissives or dominants with the ability to negotiate, to play safely, to avoid unsafe people and situations and to continue learning for themselves. Once they do that successfully, they have "graduated" and I'm all done with the hard part of helping them get there.

(in reply to CrappyDom)

RE: protection collar? - 5/17/2006 9:03:09 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji
And I would, but I don't want to get turnipped.

Even if we promise to use lots of lube?

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

RE: protection collar? - 5/17/2006 10:29:05 AM

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This is a quick reply so not responding to anyone in particular.

i have finally read and caught up with this thread and am appalled by some of the comments thrown here and Yyou Aall say Yyou are adults.....

i was the girl whom Jewel Ma'am offered a protection collar to, (waits for the gasps)....yes it does seem that at the time i was very childlike (note: was) slowly and with the love and kindness and the safe environment i learnt and grew up within, childlike is the reference in frame of mind at that time, i was and am legally of age and was and am a consenting adult, that was one thing Jewel Ma'am instilled into our relationship that actually started online in a chat room......She knew nothing of me but in a few months of talking and getting to know each other we simply bonded ( i liked the way She taught other newbies to the lifestyle, we weren't thrown out to defend for ourselves, we were always the uppermost concern to Her, not only the newbie submissives but also the newbie Dominants) my back ground is not for these boards or public use so as far to say i was bought up in an very very unloving, sheltered home life, at the age of my early 30's i had only just learnt wat my body parts, sexually and non sexually was, for instance the names like clit and toys and even love making/sex were all new to me...the words were bad in my eyes ..swear words even....i had stumbled into the lifestyle, very new and very scared, but i knew i wanted to learn as much as i could about it....my curiosity pricked, i wanted some of this kind of unconditional Love. Thing is before the collar was offered i had been in some pretty bad situation online, and one real time (those persons were not understanding of my needs, and became very abusive towards me) the way i was bought up was not to say no, that no was not part of the language, if someone asked if i wanted cake id say yes out of wanting desperately to please, i lived on the fact of wanting to please even if it hurt or was dangerous, if id upset someone by having to have to decline the offered item i would spend days and days trying to 'make things better'.

you may be right in saying in my mindset i was too young, but when you want to learn something where do you start, you have to start small and work up to the big things as Ma'am Jewel always used to say, baby steps, (now i take cheeky size steps)..i was the kinda person ( hmmm maybe still am) wanting everything yesterday, running before i could walk, yes i kept falling over ....Ma'am was there yes, but far enough for me to be able to learn to walk on my own, mainly this was in the days of online chat rooms, i wasn’t taken to any munches or play parties by Ma'am or Her Husband Scooter Sir (whom took a serious part in my growing up and helping me with my inbuilt fear of men, and authority), i must add also i do live in the UK and so at that particular time (sometimes even now) the lifestyle is a taboo subject, just as rape or abortions were in those days and so for me to learn was to ask questions and see for myself how being submissive was in daily living life...my bond with Jewel Ma'am grew stronger as i learnt and walked further into the lifestyle (am still walking and learning) this bond was never meant to be sexual, i new i loved Her but we all know Love has many meanings, looking back i remember only knowing one meaning of the word Love and that was sex, and i was always told sex was bad, Jewel Ma'am and Scooter Sir and all the other kindly Dominants and submissives showed me all the other meanings of love....i was a scared little girl when i first came into the chat rooms, over a year and some Ma'am and Sir taught me tons of not just lifestyle aspects of living but also real life things, if it wasn’t for that initial protection collar, i would not have been here today and where i am now mentally, i’m so very lucky to have had that grounding right from the start of my walk along the lifestyles paths.

finally there came a time where i was offered a real collar, Ma'am knew i was ready yet at the time i so fort against it, but as you train a baby to eat solids, and not be latched onto the breast, i had to take that step....it hurt like hell but as it happened it was the most valuable lesson i was to learn at that time, yet a proud moment for Ma'am to see Her girl move on forward.....since that day we have been in constant contact, even now i still go to Them for guidance, i make sure my Owner knows of the significance Ma'am Jewel and Scooter Sir have on my life even today, in fact i try and tell everyone i come across as to how i was raised in the lifestyle.....

i am proud to say.....i am one very Great statistic, i am one of those successful stories you hear of.

once a tiny bud, now the most stunning bloom your eyes ever had come across and there’s still more to come.

so please.....no more of these words of Ma'am Jewel as a predator an idiot and an asshole, please give Her some benefit of praise, She didn’t have to sit there day in day out looking out for the newbies of the lifestyle, She could have been like the rest and only looked out for wat She wanted out of the lifestyle instead of spending the time teaching it to those whom want to learn.

as i have said on many occasions if it wasn’t for Her and Her dedication and unconditional Love i would not have had the strength to over come my fears and miserable upbringing, and strive out to be who and where i am now....

this post made in total respect of my Mistress and Owner, and in thanks and recognition of my Mentors Jewel Ma'am and Scooter Sir.

(in reply to Najakcharmer)

RE: protection collar? - 5/17/2006 10:55:59 AM

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Having found D/s about 2 years ago, and having been here the whole time, i have made as many mistakes as possible i hope. A collar, to me, should be a serious matter between people who have a real life relationship. i have accepted collars of protection, online collars, (no training collars, TG) etc. only to regret this almost immediately. Doms who offer these seem almost certainly not real.

i was blessed with a mentor, who taught me a great deal, reviewed any inclination i had to meet someone in r/l, and reinforced the safety precautions. i owe Him a great debt.

i suppose a "collar of protection" could be a mentoring relationship but it seems a misnomer; it seems to imply the submissive is off the market until some crisis passes or she learns the ropes or whatever.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 5/17/2006 10:56:21 AM >

(in reply to cheekysmile)

RE: protection collar? - 5/17/2006 12:26:22 PM

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Cheeky.... you still amaze me.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to cheekysmile)

RE: protection collar? - 5/17/2006 12:30:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cheekysmile

as i have said on many occasions if it wasn’t for Her and Her dedication and unconditional Love i would not have had the strength to over come my fears and miserable upbringing, and strive out to be who and where i am now....

this post made in total respect of my Mistress and Owner, and in thanks and recognition of my Mentors Jewel Ma'am and Scooter Sir.

AWWWWW.............APPLAUSE!!!!! APPLAUSE!!!!!!!

Cheeky, i am sitting here with tears in my eyes. And so is Jewel. I am so very damn proud to be your friend, bravo, bravely and beautifully done. Thank you so very very much, you really are all grown up now aren't you.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to cheekysmile)

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