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RE: Florida Court Case - 7/13/2011 1:18:31 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I have actually been in these videos that you have mentioned.Who knows,you might have seen me in 1 or 2 of those videos.The fact is the majority of people who do this are not homeless.They have jobs.This just happens to be their kink.I would say probaly 99% of the guys in these videos are just people who are into this.Perhaps less than 1% are homeless,if that.

This case is a civil lawsuit brought up by 2 "homeless" men who appeared in some of these videos.Mind you,these 2 guys both signed consensual agreements,like everyone else does.Plus they came back at least 6 or 7 times to be in these videos.If these poor guys were abused,why would they come back so many times to do this.They knew what they were getting into,plain and simple.I think what has got alot of peoples attention is the nature of these videos.It certainly has shocked the local community around here.Its been in the paper and on the news.Its even shocked a few people in the kink community.The problem with the media is they are saying anything it takes to get a headline story.So,if it sounds like homeless people are getting beaten up and abused,it gets mainstream media attention.

There is a "homeless" group that is providing attorneys for these 2 homeless guys.I am sure they see dollar signs with this case.The gentleman who runs these sites has done very successful.He has sold alot of videos and his company has produced massive profits.So of course any lawyer see's dollar signs with this case.The important thing is to let the court play out.Any court of law should base its case on facts,nothing else.I think the wider issue is that this "fetish","kink" has shocked alot of people.There are some who may not want this around.Basically playing politicial hostage because they may not like what other people are into.No one says that this is for everyone.Thats fine.Just don't judge those who are into this stuff.I myself have toned down quite a bit of the types of things I do these days.Thats my choice.Live and let live.

Why did these "homeless" (are you implying they aren't homeless?) men have come back is because of the money. When people are desperate, they do desperate things. By your post, it seems you have no compassion or understanding of that fact.

The problem here is not simply that so many homeless people are suffering from mental illness of some sort, but that homelessness in and of itself will make someone make those poor decisions out of desperation.

Certainly, this does not qualify under "hate crime" criteria, however, if the company did indeed "market" their casting towards the homeless, perhaps because someone like you chose to "tone it down a bit," there is a problem. It is not much different than the "pimps" who "market" prostitution to young runaways who are homeless and starving. People who have limited choices like that will often make poor decisions because they see it as getting them enough money for a meal, a bed and a shower.

As to the comment about stuntment....yes, they are taking known risks. They also get paid more than a measley fifty bucks for their trouble. Regardless, they have a degree of training which makes the risks they take less risky (if that makes sense). Think of it like "edge play," it is foolish to engage in fire play, branding, etc. without educating yourself about the activity. Stunt men educate themselves about their stunts. These homeless people came in off the street to get beat up for fifty bucks. Not even close to the same thing.

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RE: Florida Court Case - 7/13/2011 1:25:40 PM

LafayetteLady

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Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I will say this.I have not really done any videos for Shefights in a very long time.I don't know if what the media is saying about him is true or not now.When I did work for him,he didn't recruit homeless people.If what is being said about him is true,then you won't hear me defending anyone.I would personally never condone recruiting homeless people to have some girls beat them up to make money.I do see where the outrage comes from on a moral standpoint.I guess let the trial plays itself out.I just think people should be "innocent until proven guilty".Not "guilty until proven innocence."

Because there have not been criminal charges, the "innocent until proven guilty" standard does not apply. It is not necessarily relevant in civil cases.

Bear in mind, I find nothing wrong with you personally choosing to participate in this activity. I do find it wrong to market this to homeless people, who are desperate for money.

Has anyone considered that because homeless people are so transient, that the others simply have not been located, or that shame of being homeless and participating keeps them from coming forward. One also must consider any mental illnesses they might have play a part as well.

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RE: Florida Court Case - 7/13/2011 2:03:29 PM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Bear in mind, I find nothing wrong with you personally choosing to participate in this activity. I do find it wrong to market this to homeless people, who are desperate for money.

Has anyone considered that because homeless people are so transient, that the others simply have not been located, or that shame of being homeless and participating keeps them from coming forward. One also must consider any mental illnesses they might have play a part as well.

I would think that the homeless would tend to stick around in a place like Florida and news would spread about a law suit, so if they were targeted, word would spread that they could make money and I find it a bit awful to think that homeless people automatically have mental illnesses.

Don't get me wrong, if they were actively targeting homeless people to be in the videos, I would find that horrid and disgusting and worthy of prosecution, but the way it looks to me, they were looking for people to be in their videos, I mean if I would run a shop or a business and I would need a laborer for an hour or a day, I might not really check where he's living, what his medical history is and all that, it just seems like an overkill to me.

How easy is it to smuggle some homeless people in, then claim abuse and make a big case out of it? Which seems to be what happened.

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RE: Florida Court Case - 7/13/2011 2:15:11 PM

LafayetteLady

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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Bear in mind, I find nothing wrong with you personally choosing to participate in this activity. I do find it wrong to market this to homeless people, who are desperate for money.

Has anyone considered that because homeless people are so transient, that the others simply have not been located, or that shame of being homeless and participating keeps them from coming forward. One also must consider any mental illnesses they might have play a part as well.

I would think that the homeless would tend to stick around in a place like Florida and news would spread about a law suit, so if they were targeted, word would spread that they could make money and I find it a bit awful to think that homeless people automatically have mental illnesses.

Don't get me wrong, if they were actively targeting homeless people to be in the videos, I would find that horrid and disgusting and worthy of prosecution, but the way it looks to me, they were looking for people to be in their videos, I mean if I would run a shop or a business and I would need a laborer for an hour or a day, I might not really check where he's living, what his medical history is and all that, it just seems like an overkill to me.

How easy is it to smuggle some homeless people in, then claim abuse and make a big case out of it? Which seems to be what happened.

I never said that *all* of them suffered from mental illness, merely that many homeless do. This is based with work I have done with homeless people.

What I had read was that they indeed were approaching homeless men and telling them they could make a fast fifty bucks for the video. More than any suffering from mental illness is the desperation that often exists with those suffering long term homelessness. St. Petersburg is a city, so like any other city, the population of homeless is more obvious than say in Northwest NJ where I live now.

If you were looking for a laborer for a shop, those things might not be important. When presenting someone with a contract such as this however, the mental capacity and understanding of the individual plays a much larger role, as I'm sure you can imagine. While where they are living is not important, mental health is. It isn't the same as if you hired a day laborer who didn't tell you he couldn't lift because of back issues.

While on the one hand, Florida may seem like a better place for homeless, Southern Florida, where St. Petersburg is located is dreadfully hot from May to October (I lived there for two years, hated the heat). It is also a pretty big area and so it isn't that odd that some may not be found, or aware of a lawsuit. They are "transient" in the sense that they may wander from one end of the city all the way up to Tampa (It is often called the Tampa Bay area). That's a whole lot of ground to cover.

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RE: Florida Court Case - 7/13/2011 2:50:45 PM

LadyConstanze

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True, there is a lot of ground to cover but the extensive newspaper coverage, which apparently has stopped completely, would have alerted them, just one reading about it would tell the others.

To be honest, how could they check the mental health of somebody appearing to be normal and into the activities? As for them targeting homeless people, it's one side without too many witnesses claiming it, and yes of course the media will make a big deal out of it as it makes headlines. From having worked in the media for quite a while, if there would have been any truth to the allegations, they would not have dropped the subject, it would be going on and on and the media will have actively looked for homeless people all over Florida, because an interview with somebody being abused like that would increase circulation no end.

I'm as appalled as you are by the idea of targeting homeless people for the videos, but I see very little evidence of it, and again, if it is true, then how come there is no criminal law suit? How come after the big splash it all went quiet? It's not "normal" media behaviour and something doesn't seem to be right...

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RE: Florida Court Case - 7/13/2011 9:48:50 PM

LafayetteLady

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LOL, very little is "normal" in that area of Florida. There is so much going on in the area, and such a short attention span, I am not surprised at how quickly the news moved on to something else. I remember reading something about it several months ago. Of course, now it is "hurricane season" and St. Pete is right in hurricane alley, so who knows.

While I have heard that homeless people are protected under the hate crime statute, this doesn't apply. That would be if they targeted them to harm just because they were homeless. I know it seems like they might have, but what they did was "market" their "product" to the homeless. So realistically, any of them could have chosen not to participate.

Now having said that, you might think, well they all had the same opportunity to say "no," so a civil suit shouldn't make it very far. But what none of us actually knows is HOW they marketed it. Did they imply that they would get a couple slaps or punches and it was all very light? For anyone not into that type of kink, I find it difficult to believe that they went up to homeless people and said, "hey, want fifty bucks? All you have to do is let some good looking chick beat the crap out of you." I suspect that the plaintiffs will claim that they were not led to believe that they could potentially get seriously hurt.

I just think that these men were too desperate for money to say no. I mean fifty bucks to get the shit kicked out of you? I think the "average" person (meaning not into kink) would want a bit more than that just to let someone punch them in the face.

I guess only time will tell what happens.

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RE: Florida Court Case - 7/15/2011 5:33:18 PM

Charles6682

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Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
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There are alot of homeless people who live in St.Petersburg,FL.This is something people need to realize.St.Petersburg gets more homeless than even your 'average" city.Consider the fact.It is warm almost all year around here.Homeless people do not need to worry about freezing to death here.It does get cold at time but nothing like say,NYC weather.Another factor to consider is that there are alot of social services that are provided to the homeless here.There are a few shelters,soup kitchens,charity group and many other resources for homeless people in this area.Anyone who has ever lived here for any length of time knows that.The winter time and the homeless population only goes up.Alot of people from colder climates will tend to come down here for pretty clear reasons.Warm weather and sunshine in the middle of winter time.This is a very unusual city in general.This is a tourist city and is very diverse.I can bump into anyone from all over the world here and I have.1 block you have the homeless people and a few steps next to them are the 'well to do".The rich.A very interesting city to say the least.I'm not surprised that this story took place in St.Petersburg,Florida!

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