RE: Slave or Mooch?

RE: Slave or Mooch? (Full Version)

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MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Slave or Mooch? (6/28/2011 1:36:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: maiden4meldin The simple fact that many appear to be missing (and have become quite defensive about) is that you simply expressed your PREFERENCE to be a stay-at-home-mom, and the reasons why doing so fulfills YOU (not that you've been either incapable or unwilling to be a working mom), as well as your personal belief that "Women's Lib", as you put it, has carried some negatives. I too feel "Women's Lib", has carried certain negatives, as well as certain positives -- which I would like to point out that you have NOT denied... you've merely commented on the negatives. The fact is, everyone has their passions that drive them in life, and for some... that's being a wife and mother -- which I feel should be applauded. For others, it's very obviously not. Finally, I must admit... having observed this particular debate from the outside, I found it somewhat ironic how many have commented in much the same way that many vanilla women would have excoriated most femsubs/femslaves for having chosen a life of submission/slavery to another?!! [:(]

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Slave or Mooch? (6/28/2011 1:43:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr You where down right insulting to working mothers everywhere, basically implying that they don't have personal values because they dare to let their kids go to daycare of school and that you are somehow a superior mother to them... Really?!! I personally didn't get that from this poster's comments -- but maybe I missed something?!! I don't have a horse in this race, as I feel both working and non-working women and moms bring different things to the table. But for purposes of this particular debate, would you mind copy/pasting the particular text which you personally found so offending?!! Thanks in advance. [:)]

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Slave or Mooch? (6/28/2011 3:35:50 PM)
Although I think melfin made an unsupported and rather stupid blanket statement, the more she revealed about her life, the sorrier I feel for her. Here is someone with a large family, an absentee dad, and virtually no job skills. No wonder she hates going to work. What kind of prospects does someone like that have? And who will take care of women like her when they are too old to even minimally support themselves. At least in her case, it sounds like her children aren't in a position to support her either. It seems to me that there are going to be lots of former stay at home moms living under bridges in 10-20 years. Blame it on "women's lib" I guess.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Slave or Mooch? (6/28/2011 6:42:25 PM)
Responding to several points... quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet Although I think melfin made an unsupported and rather stupid blanket statement, Respectfully, I feel your rather mean-spritied comments about someone whose made all of 3 posts, are equally "unsupported". Please note, I do understand that this is your opinion, which of course you're entitled to, though she too is entitled to her opinions. quote: ...the more she revealed about her life, the sorrier I feel for her. Here is someone with a large family, an absentee dad, and virtually no job skills. No wonder she hates going to work. What kind of prospects does someone like that have? You're certainly welcome to "feel" however you may choose, however: 1) Nothing wrong with having a "large family", as I come from one myself. 2) Said "absentee dad" was not her fault. In fact, what's been expressed by the poster is said "dad" was abusive. 3) She may have "virtually no job skills" to you, but coming from a family-owned business background myself (growing up my parents had the same), I can assure you, a small business owner possesses several skil-sets those in "Corporate" life would do well to learn from. 4) As to her prospects? That depends, I suppose... if a house full of rug-rats, certainly many wouldn't be crazy about walking into a Brady Bunch scenario -- but if the children are grown/married (which I believe she stated they are), then her "prospects" are no different from anyone elses. quote: And who will take care of women like her when they are too old to even minimally support themselves. I would think herself, her family/children, a future spouse/Master, no??? quote: At least in her case, it sounds like her children aren't in a position to support her either. I didn't see any commentary about her children's finances... and I believe she's stated she owns her home, which is paid off, so really it's just a matter of living expenses -- which vary, depending what city/state one resides. quote: It seems to me that there are going to be lots of former stay at home moms living under bridges in 10-20 years. I might agree with that statement some 50 years ago, but not today. quote: Blame it on "women's lib" I guess. As already stated, "Women's Lib" carried both positives and negatives -- any femsub/femslave can attest to the eye-rolls she gets from said "Liberated" women who excoriate them for having chosen a life of submission/slavery to another. Mind you, I agree that poster should have likely stated the postives ushered in by women's liberation, and not just the negatives (as she sees them), but I also feel the personal attacks have been a bit extreme. I state this simply because I personally know several (of both the BDSM and Vanilla ilk) who've also wanted nothing more than to be a wife and mother, would never think of placing their children in daycare, and have ZERO "career" goals. Are they wrong in their personal views and choices?!! I don't think so, as those are THEIR choices, which may be very different from yours, or mine, or others'.

Aylee -> RE: Slave or Mooch? (6/28/2011 10:12:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: myotherself quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl I'm actually even worse than you. I'm college educated, have a career and chose not to have children. <gasp> Yeah, me too [:o] And even more selfishly, I chose to become a teacher so that I can help educate the next generation or two of young people so that they can be the strong, independent, well-educated men AND WOMEN of the future. I'm a bad, bad person [:D] Oh hell. You two are pikers. I work and the other half stays home with Butterhead. And will stay home with the one that is on the way. I do the baking as well. And the gardening. But not the lawn mowing. And I LIKE it this way. I do believe that this makes me the spawn of Mao, Stalin, and Belezabub. Fondue Bunny? Really now.

Aylee -> RE: Slave or Mooch? (6/28/2011 10:17:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA Mind you, I agree that poster should have likely stated the postives ushered in by women's liberation, and not just the negatives (as she sees them), but I also feel the personal attacks have been a bit extreme. I state this simply because I personally know several (of both the BDSM and Vanilla ilk) who've also wanted nothing more than to be a wife and mother, would never think of placing their children in daycare, and have ZERO "career" goals. Are they wrong in their personal views and choices?!! I don't think so, as those are THEIR choices, which may be very different from yours, or mine, or others'. I think that it was a combination of 'wimmins should stay home' and the lament of the lost golden days of yore. You know, that same bitch that you can find in Plato's Republic, that things used to be better. That this generation is not as wonderful as the previous. Women's lib was about the ability to choose. And I am good with working or stay at home mothers and fathers.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Slave or Mooch? (6/28/2011 10:54:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Women's lib was about the ability to choose. Ironically, that's the same thing I tell those of the Vanilla ilk who excoriate those of the submissive sort as traitors to the women's movement -- that it's choice... just not their choice.

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Slave or Mooch? (6/28/2011 10:56:00 PM)
Masterslave Actually, I read maiden's profile too. It is pretty detailed about her life. I don't agree with many of your points, but I don't really feel the need to defend myself either. You are right though, some of what I said was unnecessarily mean, and I brought my own hubris to the conversation. Having said that, I will say I faced substantial criticism for my career choices when my UMs were young, from strangers in line at the grocery store, to my own mother. I used to agonize over whether they were right that I was ruining my kids' lives by putting them in day care. I spent hours reading really boring articles about the pros and cons of daycare. But if you asked my children today whether they would prefer that I had stayed at home with them when they were young, or rather they would prefer the free and clear college education that they got because I didn't, I have no doubt what they would say. Because they couldn't have both. Maiden and I just disagree about why that is true.

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Slave or Mooch? (6/28/2011 11:04:29 PM)
I might agree with that statement some 50 years ago, but not today. quote: -- any femsub/femslave can attest to the eye-rolls she gets from said "Liberated" women who excoriate them for having chosen a life . . . Umm. Really? You can speak for all "femsub's/femslave's?

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Slave or Mooch? (6/28/2011 11:31:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet Actually, I read maiden's profile too. It is pretty detailed about her life. Ah... I didn't. Point taken. quote: I will say I faced substantial criticism for my career choices when my UMs were young Damned if ya do... and damned if ya don't -- funny world we live in, huh?!! [:)]

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Slave or Mooch? (6/28/2011 11:34:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet quote: -- any femsub/femslave can attest to the eye-rolls she gets from said "Liberated" women who excoriate them for having chosen a life of submission/slavery to another Umm. Really? You can speak for all "femsub's/femslave's? For all that have experienced said eye-roll for their choice to submit to another... you bet.

juliaoceania -> RE: Slave or Mooch? (6/28/2011 11:42:10 PM)
quote: Actually, it's been shown that children who have daycare are better socialized and have an easier time dealing with going to school. Where has it been shown?

Aylee -> RE: Slave or Mooch? (6/29/2011 11:10:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Actually, it's been shown that children who have daycare are better socialized and have an easier time dealing with going to school. Where has it been shown? I am not sure about the socialization thing, however I do know that children that attend daycare tend to have better attendance in K-12. The reason being is that they run into so many germs in daycare that they are more immune to little bugs when they start publlic school. If I can remember where I read that, I will let you know. It might have been in Super Freakenomics.

juliaoceania -> RE: Slave or Mooch? (6/30/2011 12:28:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Actually, it's been shown that children who have daycare are better socialized and have an easier time dealing with going to school. Where has it been shown? I am not sure about the socialization thing, however I do know that children that attend daycare tend to have better attendance in K-12. The reason being is that they run into so many germs in daycare that they are more immune to little bugs when they start publlic school. If I can remember where I read that, I will let you know. It might have been in Super Freakenomics. My son stayed home with me until he went to school, and he had no trouble parting ways from me, making friends or keeping them. I took time to make sure he had kids his own age to play with a few times a week, but I did not send him to daycare/preschool. I do not think it is whether or not you keep them home or send them to preschool, it is the pains you take to make sure that wherever they are they feel safe and get enough individualized attention. Every family has to choose which path is best suited for them... for some it is keeping them home, for others it is sending them off to experience school at a younger age. I think the child should be considered, as well as the childcare options available... not all places have adequate preschool options. These studies that seek to find some ultimate answer as to what is best in individual cases irk me. They do not respect the choices that families have to make out of necessity, they pit women against each other (the old my way is better than your way mentality) and they do not look at each child as an individual with individual needs that are best suited by different environments. I think most of us make the best decisions we can with the resources we have available to us.

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