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RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 8:58:20 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I cannot even understand wanting to lock people up for those time periods for an unborn fetus.

In my mind it makes no sense

Tell me, if a woman wants to have a Cesarean or induce labor at 33 weeks because she doesn't want to be pregnant so she can kill herself, how does that sit with you?


Then that is her decision. Honestly, julia, I get how you feel. But these were not just fetuses as they were past the age of viability, which is something we have to agree upon with such cases. 22 weeks is about 5 months gestation.... if by that time you have not decided to abort, you have decided to carry to term. At that point, you have made a conscious decision to carry the pregnancy to term. Or do you believe abortions should be obtained regardless of gestational age?

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RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:00:12 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Men have been charged with murder for punching a pregnant woman and killing the fetus/baby. If that is ok, a woman should be charged with ending the life of a fetus/baby as well.



I do not think either is right... you can throw the book at the guy for assault with intent of bodily harm, battery, attempted murder on the mother, etc

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RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:02:07 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Then that is her decision. Honestly, julia, I get how you feel. But these were not just fetuses as they were past the age of viability, which is something we have to agree upon with such cases. 22 weeks is about 5 months gestation.... if by that time you have not decided to abort, you have decided to carry to term. At that point, you have made a conscious decision to carry the pregnancy to term. Or do you believe abortions should be obtained regardless of gestational age?


I think that the pregnant woman's state of mind is crucial to determining level of culpability. In other words, if she is batshit crazy enough to eat rat poison, I think she needs to be committed.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:02:43 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
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Status: offline 		What if someone slips drugs into a pregnant woman's non alcoholic drink at a large social gathering without her consent? This does happen. What if it results in the death of her unborn fetus? Polygraphs aren't admissible in court. At a large social gathering, the woman might not have any idea who did it. How would the woman prove her innocence?

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RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:03:58 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

What if someone slips drugs into a pregnant woman's non alcoholic drink at a large social gathering without her consent? This does happen.


I have never heard of it, can you cite a case?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:05:58 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Then that is her decision. Honestly, julia, I get how you feel. But these were not just fetuses as they were past the age of viability, which is something we have to agree upon with such cases. 22 weeks is about 5 months gestation.... if by that time you have not decided to abort, you have decided to carry to term. At that point, you have made a conscious decision to carry the pregnancy to term. Or do you believe abortions should be obtained regardless of gestational age?


I think that the pregnant woman's state of mind is crucial to determining level of culpability. In other words, if she is batshit crazy enough to eat rat poison, I think she needs to be committed.


On this we agree. And I still stand by what I wrote.

This one... man... Im sorry but I would have no issue prosecuting her based upon what little I see here. Of course, there may be much more we dont know about. She knew she was pregnant when she ingested the rat poison. You would never convince me she didnt know she was affecting the life of her unborn baby. Again, past the age of viability.

Im quite sure a psych eval was completed. Would be interesting to see what it contains.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:07:32 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

What if someone slips drugs into a pregnant woman's non alcoholic drink at a large social gathering without her consent? This does happen. What if it results in the death of her unborn fetus? Polygraphs aren't admissible in court. At a large social gathering, the woman might not have any idea who did it. How would the woman prove her innocence?


Do you go to large gatherings and put your drink down, walk away, then come back and drink it? I dont.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:10:32 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Do you go to large gatherings and put your drink down, walk away, then come back and drink it? I dont.


Yes and no... if it is a place where I know everyone, and the object is not to get plastered, and it is a high level social gathering (such as a professional convention, etc) yes I will... at a bar, no freaking way

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:14:49 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Do you go to large gatherings and put your drink down, walk away, then come back and drink it? I dont.


Yes and no... if it is a place where I know everyone, and the object is not to get plastered, and it is a high level social gathering (such as a professional convention, etc) yes I will... at a bar, no freaking way


I would think at a large gathering, I would not know everyone... and no way have I ever trusted everyone I have worked with.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:15:32 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

What if someone slips drugs into a pregnant woman's non alcoholic drink at a large social gathering without her consent? This does happen.


I have never heard of it, can you cite a case?


No I can't cite a specific case of someone having drugs slipped into their drink, but I know it does happen. My father didn't warn me never to leave my drink unattended at a large social gathering for no reason. If it can happen to anyone, I think it's safe to assume it can happen to a pregnant woman.


_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:21:13 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

If someone attacks a women and kills the fetus/baby during the attack aren't they already charged for the death of the fetus/baby. If so the law is in conflict, as either, the attacker can not be charged with killing the fetus/baby and the mother could not be charged, or the attacker can be charged and also the mother could be charged.


Which is also a backdoor way of giving the fetus rights
By the rightard's moronic logic, I could accidently leave a pregnant Jack Russell outside in the rain, and then, if one of the litter is stillborn, I could be charged with Animal Cruelty.


< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 6/25/2011 9:22:00 PM >

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(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:22:18 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Gibbs became pregnant aged 15, but lost the baby in December 2006 in a stillbirth when she was 36 weeks into the pregnancy. When prosecutors discovered that she had a cocaine habit – though there is no evidence that drug abuse had anything to do with the baby's death – they charged her with the "depraved-heart murder" of her child, which carries a mandatory life sentence.



I'd think the hospital she was at would have had a blood sample they could have checked for traces of cocaine -- but if not, then a hair-follicle test could have proven her guilt or innosence, I believe... yes/no???



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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:23:35 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Do you go to large gatherings and put your drink down, walk away, then come back and drink it? I dont.


Yes and no... if it is a place where I know everyone, and the object is not to get plastered, and it is a high level social gathering (such as a professional convention, etc) yes I will... at a bar, no freaking way


I would think at a large gathering, I would not know everyone... and no way have I ever trusted everyone I have worked with.



I would find it highly unlikely that someone would slip something into my drink at a large social gathering like that.. and I rarely go to such things without people I know very well. If someone drugged me under those circumstances, they would have to drug about a dozen other random people before they could get me out of a building somewhere to do nefarious things to me, but that is just my experience, other people's will vary

But at a bar where I am with a couple of other people that are drinking too, never

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:25:23 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Do you go to large gatherings and put your drink down, walk away, then come back and drink it? I dont.


No I don't. But someone who isn't street smart might. I don't think lack of street smarts makes someone a murderer.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:27:30 PM   
SashaSteel


Posts: 33
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Status: offline 		Isnt it legal to drink alcohol while youre pregnant all day every day? Even though the kid will come out three shades retarded and have a zero chance at a decent life?

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:29:04 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I think at a large gathering someone would be hard pressed to prove who did spike her drink, and the question would always come up if she was A) making it up to cover up her own usage B) why didnt she heed common sense and carry her drink with her or C) why didnt she just get a fresh drink.

I could see a case for her own culpability.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:29:29 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SashaSteel

Isnt it legal to drink alcohol while youre pregnant all day every day? Even though the kid will come out three shades retarded and have a zero chance at a decent life?


It happens all of the time, and fetal alcohol syndrome is worse than cocaine for the unborn... especially in the first trimester.

In fact, you would be hard pressed to find a worse drug for an embryo to be exposed to


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:44:44 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		LOL

Hippie, this is my field. Of course I am not going to ignore it.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 6/25/2011 9:45:31 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:46:45 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

fetal alcohol syndrome is worse than cocaine for the unborn... especially in the first trimester.

In fact, you would be hard pressed to find a worse drug for an embryo to be exposed to



When I was 18, I got drunk once during my first trimester. I didn't find out I was pregnant until 2 weeks later. I was pretty freaked about it since I had read that one time is all it takes. Fortunately, the baby I gave up for adoption wasn't born with fetal alcohol syndrome.


_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 9:48:26 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL

Hippie, this is my field. Of course I am not going to ignore it.
Oh yeah right like I'm buying that good one hahahaha >snort<


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 60
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