Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 11:34:11 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Oh no, thank you Rho!

And that is a genuine thank you!!


Adding my thanks

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 11:36:31 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Ouchie Girlie!!

On a side note... lol ... the one's that just made me cringe, then shake my head, were those who had deep episiotomies and would go home, have anal sex, then wonder why their stickes tore.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 11:37:34 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Largest baby I helped deliver was 13 pounds... to a 13 year old... she didnt even bruise.

Gestational diabetes?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 11:40:38 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Nope. We tested that kid daily for just that. Then dad walked in, 6'6 and big boned... lol.

Doc told the grandmother... "she is a baby making machine, you best put her on birth control"

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 11:41:42 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
~FR

I wanted to point out that the case of the 15 year old has not gone to court yet. The case before the Mississippi SC is to get them to drop the one charge before she does go to court.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 11:41:52 PM   
xXsoumisXx


Posts: 339
Joined: 7/26/2009
From: USA
Status: offline
I have never understood how one can be procecuted for giving birth to an addicted baby, whether it be crack. heroin, etc..,

and have it be legal to abort/kill that same baby/fetus.

There are many cases of murder involving a pregnant woman in which the accused is charged for both lives ended...

it's ok for the mother to kill it, It's just not ok to damage it before giving birth.

I have heard all the arguments. I have seen all sides. My career invoves educating many of these damaged children.

I have my own opinions and morals about all of this.

For me, they do not compute.. i beleive it is wrong to harm something as defenceless as an unborn child.. whether by drugs, alcohol, or violence.







(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 11:45:19 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xXsoumisXx

I have never understood how one can be procecuted for giving birth to an addicted baby, whether it be crack. heroin, etc..,

and have it be legal to abort/kill that same baby/fetus.

There are many cases of murder involving a pregnant woman in which the accused is charged for both lives ended...

it's ok for the mother to kill it, It's just not ok to damage it before giving birth.

I have heard all the arguments. I have seen all sides. My career invoves educating many of these damaged children.

I have my own opinions and morals about all of this.

For me, they do not compute.. i beleive it is wrong to harm something as defenceless as an unborn child.. whether by drugs, alcohol, or violence.




In the same way its legal to pull life support in a hospital with a health care power of attorney or a court order... or even just the Drs permission... but its murder for the family to do so on their own.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to xXsoumisXx)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/26/2011 12:01:11 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
I think that part of the problem is that the cognitive development issues occur in the third trimester of pregnancy as far as drugs impairing cognitive development. I remember the crack cocaine epidemic in which they predicted all sort of permanent cognitive developmental issues for crack cocaine babies.... and what they found is that much of the problem was actually FAS, and not related to the crack cocaine abuse at all.... mothers who did crack also drank heavily.

Alcohol is the drug that is readily available that has the most severe repercussions for the embryo/fetus. Alcohol is not illegal, and as far as I know there are no laws against drinking while pregnant. Because other drugs are illegal they can screen for these and throw the book at women found to be high on them. It makes zero sense to me that we would lock women up for 20 years for doing a drug that was not as harmful as a legal one, and because the alcohol is legal, drunken women can get away with it.

We then also have the repercussion of women getting preemptive abortions because if their kid just might be born with FAS they will opt to abort rather than take the chance and carry the baby full term, even for a woman that did not drink but very moderately, before she knew she was pregnant. Is this really the road we wanna travel down?



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/26/2011 12:07:53 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

And it is legal to drink in your first trimester... crap, some women do not know they are pregnant for a couple of months and it is not uncommon for women to have light periods when they first get pregnant.


I took grandma's advice and, at 39 weeks, had a beer while on a cleaning frenzy at my place. Two days later, woke up in labor.


The day my water broke I went to the doctor and told him that I was so big it was hurting me when the baby moved... it was two days before my due date, so I asked how I could induce labor naturally... he said "go for a long walk"... I did, and it broke my water.

The funny thing was the doctor insisted that my baby could not be hurting me when he moved, because he was on the smaller side of 6 pounds... he said at the most he weighed 5 1/2 lbs... he was 8 1/2

If I had known what douchebags quacks can be back when I was nursing them through their Chem labs, I would have spent all my time with the Nursing students.


I had a few future Chancre Mechanics drop the Invertebrate Zoology class I taught as well.
Yanno, I regret that I wasn't able to take more Natural Sciences classes. Without going into too much detail, there was pressure on me to get out into the workforce. Same sort of loving support I got from my pigbitch stepmother when I would borrow Ace Doubles from John C., and she would confiscate them with the moronic statement that , paraphrasing, "reading that shit just puts your head in the clouds." This from a moronic cunt who sucked down every "Mandingo" book she could find.

Anyway, you get my drift...


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/26/2011 12:13:16 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I think that part of the problem is that the cognitive development issues occur in the third trimester of pregnancy as far as drugs impairing cognitive development. I remember the crack cocaine epidemic in which they predicted all sort of permanent cognitive developmental issues for crack cocaine babies.... and what they found is that much of the problem was actually FAS, and not related to the crack cocaine abuse at all.... mothers who did crack also drank heavily.

Alcohol is the drug that is readily available that has the most severe repercussions for the embryo/fetus. Alcohol is not illegal, and as far as I know there are no laws against drinking while pregnant. Because other drugs are illegal they can screen for these and throw the book at women found to be high on them. It makes zero sense to me that we would lock women up for 20 years for doing a drug that was not as harmful as a legal one, and because the alcohol is legal, drunken women can get away with it.

We then also have the repercussion of women getting preemptive abortions because if their kid just might be born with FAS they will opt to abort rather than take the chance and carry the baby full term, even for a woman that did not drink but very moderately, before she knew she was pregnant. Is this really the road we wanna travel down?


Alcohol (EtOH) is absolutely the worst drug there is. It's almost identical in its effects to EtOEt. Really nasty shit. It's against the law to grow a plant which has been used for centuries as a folk medicine for pain (P. Somniferum) but a drug which kills over 40,000 people a year in the United Snakes alone is legal... nay, celebrated!


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/26/2011 12:18:22 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Alcohol (EtOH) is absolutely the worst drug there is. It's almost identical in its effects to EtOEt. Really nasty shit. It's against the law to grow a plant which has been used for centuries as a folk medicine for pain (P. Somniferum) but a drug which kills over 40,000 people a year in the United Snakes alone is legal... nay, celebrated!


I enjoy a few cocktails on occasion, do not get me wrong.... but it is the hypocrisy of our drug laws.

I am a person that is for people to use whatever drugs they like. I am also for discovering new ways to help people who suffer from addiction, and ways to keep drug use away from young people as well.

We have people here on prescription medication that is every bit as addictive as crack... like Xanax for example, or synthetic narcotics like hydrocodone and Oxycontin. And I am even for legalizing these like they have in Mexico... over the counter. It doesn't do any good to try to police people out of self destruction...

That is just my opinion

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/26/2011 12:19:47 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
I think the road we should want to travel is to have as healthy a baby as possible without the added addictions. Dont you agree?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/26/2011 12:25:56 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I think the road we should want to travel is to have as healthy a baby as possible without the added addictions. Dont you agree?


I would love that, but if we make using drugs a life sentence for pregnant women, more of them are going to opt out of pregnancy, especially if they were really negligent in the first trimester, before they knew they were pregnant or before they decided what they wanted to do with their pregnancy. We do that, we might increase the rate of abortions in this country, and maybe we will have less drug addicted/impacted newborns...

Unfortunately, not every drug addict will stop using, personally I tend to think that offering pregnant women emergency residential treatment for drug addiction would be a great start! We have to have some sort of option if we want to keep women from having drug addicted children. Just putting them in prison after the fact seems a real waste of two lives....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/26/2011 12:31:20 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

We have people here on prescription medication that is every bit as addictive as crack... like Xanax for example, or synthetic narcotics like hydrocodone and Oxycontin. And I am even for legalizing these like they have in Mexico... over the counter. It doesn't do any good to try to police people out of self destruction...


Some meds do not cross the placenta barrier, some do not. Most opioids do.

Having said that, I dont know of a single physician who will prescribe them for a pregnant woman, them not wanting to deal with the postential of a lawsuit later. So how are these women getting them?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/26/2011 12:33:08 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Unfortunately, not every drug addict will stop using, personally I tend to think that offering pregnant women emergency residential treatment for drug addiction would be a great start! We have to have some sort of option if we want to keep women from having drug addicted children. Just putting them in prison after the fact seems a real waste of two lives....


Many states had started such a program, where pregnant women were tested during pregnancy and offered treatment. Some states only offered jail time. In all states, it was ruled unconstitutional.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/26/2011 12:33:35 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

We have people here on prescription medication that is every bit as addictive as crack... like Xanax for example, or synthetic narcotics like hydrocodone and Oxycontin. And I am even for legalizing these like they have in Mexico... over the counter. It doesn't do any good to try to police people out of self destruction...


Some meds do not cross the placenta barrier, some do not. Most opioids do.

Having said that, I dont know of a single physician who will prescribe them for a pregnant woman, them not wanting to deal with the postential of a lawsuit later. So how are these women getting them?


That portion of my post was not about pregnancy, it was about legalizing drugs.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/26/2011 12:36:06 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Unfortunately, not every drug addict will stop using, personally I tend to think that offering pregnant women emergency residential treatment for drug addiction would be a great start! We have to have some sort of option if we want to keep women from having drug addicted children. Just putting them in prison after the fact seems a real waste of two lives....


Many states had started such a program, where pregnant women were tested during pregnancy and offered treatment. Some states only offered jail time. In all states, it was ruled unconstitutional.



Offering treatment is different than requiring it. I do not see how offering treatment to all pregnant women as a course of their prenatal care would be "unconstitutional".... imprisoning, yes, giving an option? Hardly.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/26/2011 12:38:36 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
It was mandatory testing. The result was that it was an invasion of privacy.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/26/2011 1:04:01 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Alcohol (EtOH) is absolutely the worst drug there is. It's almost identical in its effects to EtOEt. Really nasty shit. It's against the law to grow a plant which has been used for centuries as a folk medicine for pain (P. Somniferum) but a drug which kills over 40,000 people a year in the United Snakes alone is legal... nay, celebrated!


I enjoy a few cocktails on occasion, do not get me wrong.... but it is the hypocrisy of our drug laws.

I am a person that is for people to use whatever drugs they like. I am also for discovering new ways to help people who suffer from addiction, and ways to keep drug use away from young people as well.

We have people here on prescription medication that is every bit as addictive as crack... like Xanax for example, or synthetic narcotics like hydrocodone and Oxycontin. And I am even for legalizing these like they have in Mexico... over the counter. It doesn't do any good to try to police people out of self destruction...

That is just my opinion
Well, I take Oxycontin, as well as Oxycodone IR. Yes, there is no doubt that I am physically dependent. And that, while occasionally inconvenient, has not led me down the path of self-destruction. After almost 12 years, I am at a fairly low, stable dose. The main side effect now is occasional somnolence. Euphoria is rare. Constipation is rare.

I object to having to go to a gatekeeper every month for pain relief. I know exactly how much I need to go from a 7 or 8 down to a 2 or 3 (I know that trying to completely eliminate pain CAN be done, but at the cost of being awake). Having to go to a doctor is superfluous; I rarely see a doctor anyway. I won't say it's a pill mill, because it isn't. What it IS, is a money mill. I mean, they are seeing perhaps one patient every 10 minutes. (my visits normally take no more than about 5 minutes face time, and the prescriptions are pre-printed). There are normally 3 PAs and one doctor on any given day. The doctor doesn't always see people at the rate the PAs do, so I'll estimate that there are 3.5 people per 7 hour day.

Lowballing each visit at $100 per, that's $100 x 6 x 3.5 x 7 = $14,700 per day. And I'm being conservative. I'm not counting the epidurals and other "procedures".

Times 4 locations.

All this current system does is transfer money from people who are suffering, to people who have learned how to game the system.

Moving along, is addiction a disease? If it is, how can anyone be culpable for being addicted? Isn't that the basic question?

And, even if addiction is NOT a disease, and the use if drugs is entirely voluntary, with absolutely no physiological changes to, say, the nucleus accumbens or the prefrontal cortex, and the mediation of L-type Ca++ channels and downregulation of dopamine receptors is a complete myth, how can a 15 year-old (at the time of the offense to rightard mythology ontology) be held responsible? She's not mature enough to sign a contract to buy a set of encyclopedias, right? Then how can she be mature enough to understand that the ingestion of *** can cause ###?

I mean, theoretically, she's the victim of Statutory Rape, yes? How can she be a victim of rape, and be responsible for the result of that rape?

Rightard "logic" escapes me.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/26/2011 1:15:14 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Age of consent there is 16. Unless the father is 16 or older, they cannot charge him.

I, personally, believe all women should be tested along with their pregnancy test. But then you run the risk of running such women away from any prenatal care. If a woman tests positive while pregnant, treatment should not be an option, it should be mandatory. But, again, what pregnant woman who is addicted to any drug will risk that? Then we run into the "invasion of privacy" group.

I really wish they would make it that a fetus has legal status once it reaches the age of viability. And what I mean is at the age a baby could survive outside the womb.... on its own. 2 million dollars to keep a 20 week gestational baby alive after delivery on every monitor and machine available is not what I would consider having reached that age.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 100
Page:   <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109