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RE: What is wrong with people? - 7/14/2011 6:03:18 AM

Anaxagoras

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
I am Jewish and familiar with the Hassidic sect to a degree. One thing I agree with is that no matter what your ethnicity, religion, status, sex, intelligence level, income level, whatever, there are evil people in every group.

One thing about the Hassidic group, they are very hidden and protect their citizens. It is like a secret society. They are extremely misogynistic and there is a huge amount of spousal abuse, use of prostitutes, etc. with them as much as anyone else.

There was a very eye opening article in New York magazine a few years ago written by a woman who was a member of the sect and her husband beat her and abused her. She wanted a divorce. In that sector, a divorce is not easy to get. To make a long story short, the sect protected the husband and would not allow the wife to have a "get" which is the only divorce recognizedd (a Hassidic Rabbi has to grant it even if you get a lawyer and get a legal divorce).

They basically took her children away from her and threw her out of the community. It was horrific. She was the victim.

I don't care what religion they are. And this is not about being Jewish, this is a specific sect within the Jewish religion. It is not the same as being Orthodox. My grandparents were Orthodox and nothing like the Hassidic Jews.

My knowledge of Judaism is limited but from what I have read there does seem to be a massive difference between orthodox and ultra-orthodox. I remember documentaries from Israel about the goings on of the ultra-orthodox where they had their own distinct areas of Jerusalem where women were expected to dress "decently" and they are the ones behind the remarkable phenomenon of the gender segregated bus! Women that left were completely excluded. I don't want to demonise these people as I'm sure some are very sincere but it must be hard especially for women. The few people I know who visited those areas when in Israel remarked quite a lot on how miserable these women looked!

quote:

One, I believe in the death penalty for killing a child. I don't care if he is insane, he killed an innocent child.

So I have no sympathy for the fuck who killed this child.

Justice seems to be largely predicated on the idea that people can tell right from wrong. Laws are designed to discourage what society deems to be wrongful behaviour as much as to punish for the sake of victims, and even punishment is an inducement to abide by laws. If this individual really did have a psycotic break then his ability to tell right from wrong was probably gone. Anyone who commits such an awful sickening act couldn't be viewed with sympathy and neither should they escape punishment but the difference between say a cold blooded killer who knowingly butchers a child and someone who has a full mental breakdown and does the same thing would seem to be on a very different level of evil.

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 7/14/2011 6:06:22 AM >

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RE: What is wrong with people? - 7/14/2011 6:51:11 AM

GreedyTop

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AP report, posted about 3 hrs ago: http://news.yahoo.com/8-old-brooklyn-boy-killed-dismembered-191831616.html

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RE: What is wrong with people? - 7/14/2011 1:27:10 PM

Anaxagoras

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Interesting that the report says Aron is orthodox rather than ultra-orthodox. Other stuff online says she is ultra-orthodox http://dusiznies.blogspot.com/ - what a gruesome murder. Apparently he tried to lure another child into his car some months ago which could suggest premeditated murder but then he just told the police where parts of the body were when asked and didn't know why he did it.

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RE: What is wrong with people? - 7/15/2011 2:31:30 AM

MrHCurious

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quote:

Of course, in any group, there are those who would choose to be something else.

Yeah - like a murderer. The idea that he couldn't have done it, he's a devout Jew is mind-boggling when you look at al the shit being perpetuated today in the name of religion. How about the Israeli/Palestinian barney? Far as I understand, it's not solely motivated by religious differences but they're there and likely have some bearing on the issue.

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RE: What is wrong with people? - 7/15/2011 3:13:44 AM

Anaxagoras

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrHCurious

quote:

Of course, in any group, there are those who would choose to be something else.

Yeah - like a murderer. The idea that he couldn't have done it, he's a devout Jew is mind-boggling when you look at al the shit being perpetuated today in the name of religion. How about the Israeli/Palestinian barney? Far as I understand, it's not solely motivated by religious differences but they're there and likely have some bearing on the issue.

Not sure if you're replying to LafayetteLady who is quoted but its not clear if Aron is orthodox or ultra-orthodox (probably Hassidic). If the latter then people of his side of the faith are not supportive of Israel for certain ideological religious reasons.

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RE: What is wrong with people? - 7/15/2011 3:39:27 AM

BamaD

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It's not about religion , it's not about insanity, It's about evil.

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RE: What is wrong with people? - 7/15/2011 9:16:45 AM

Anaxagoras

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
It's not about religion , it's not about insanity, It's about evil.

I'm not saying it is about religion but if people think its about evil (I'm not so sure in the case of genuine insanity) then the question is "what is evil"?

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RE: What is wrong with people? - 7/15/2011 2:42:48 PM

MrHCurious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

Not sure if you're replying to LafayetteLady who is quoted but its not clear if Aron is orthodox or ultra-orthodox (probably Hassidic). If the latter then people of his side of the faith are not supportive of Israel for certain ideological religious reasons.

I'm not talking about him or his sect specifically, more about religion as a whole being a motivator for some pretty fucked-up things. I thought that was clear.

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RE: What is wrong with people? - 7/15/2011 3:05:16 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
Apparently he tried to lure another child into his car some months ago which could suggest premeditated murder

I agree. I noticed that at a later time as well when I happened to read something about the case. The perp clearly is a repeat offender. His conditioning is broken and insufficient to compensate for his inherent nature. His state of mind in my opinion is incurable. Thus he need be either sequestrated permanently from temptation or be killed.

I do think that the death of this child is fortunate: the chain of events that led to his abuser and murderer getting caught, is likely to have saved many other children from a like fate. May the God of the Dead award him according to his merits.

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RE: What is wrong with people? - 7/15/2011 3:13:41 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrHCurious
The idea that he couldn't have done it, he's a devout Jew is mind-boggling ...

It is a defense that is typical for people from (some) Jewish populations. There was a Muslim in France who murdered a Dutch couple who used the same defense: "I am a Muslim and we are not allowed to do such a thing by our religion, therefore I did not commit this crime".

< Message edited by Rule -- 7/15/2011 3:14:02 PM >

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RE: What is wrong with people? - 7/15/2011 3:21:59 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
I'm not saying it is about religion but if people think its about evil (I'm not so sure in the case of genuine insanity) then the question is "what is evil"?

Evil occurs in the absence of a conscience. (It can also occur in the presence of a conscience, but at a far lower frequency.)

All handicapped people try to complement their handicap. Those with a wounded leg invent a crutch. The blind invent a feeling cane. The deaf invent sign language. Those without a conscience invent ethics.

Evil individuals are present in all populations. The interesting question is 'At which frequency are they present in their respective populations?' My hypothesis is that the harsher the laws and treatment of convicted criminals, the higher the frequency of evil in a population is.

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