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RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 7:26:24 AM

Anaxagoras

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Firm, any camp for children where politics is the primary concern of the camp program is disturbing.

True, I think this sort of thing should be illegal. Youn people should find their path into politics in their own way. Life experience is a big factor in determining political opinions. To get in there at an early age is unhealthy regardless of political persuasion. I think another on a different thread said the Labour Youth Movement there was more intensive than elsewhere and was some sort of offshoot from the USSR!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
A youth activity camp (more along the American summer camp pattern than anything else) the Norwegian labour party provides as a perk for the children of its members.

I don't know much about what goes on there at all but from what I read they had boycott Israel events. Whether you agree with that or not, its pretty strong political posturing!

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 61

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 7:28:34 AM

Moonhead

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That's a general Labour party thing in Norway, rather than something that's exclusive to the camps or the youth league, I think.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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(in reply to Anaxagoras)

Post #: 62

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 7:33:29 AM

Anaxagoras

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From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
That's a general Labour party thing in Norway, rather than something that's exclusive to the camps or the youth league, I think.

True, its not exclusive to the camps. However to have big events like that at the camp that adopt a very strong political line suggests these camps have some serious intent to politicise children.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 63

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 7:40:23 AM

Moonhead

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It's more that they're there for kids who are from a political background already.

I know that Israel's a bit of a sore point with you, but is that any different from the emphasis that used to be put on stressing that buying anything from south africa was a bad idea back when we were kids? I remember quite a bit about that in geography lessons...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

Post #: 64

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 7:46:50 AM

Anaxagoras

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From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
It's more that they're there for kids who are from a political background already.

I know that Israel's a bit of a sore point with you, but is that any different from the emphasis that used to be put on stressing that buying anything from south africa was a bad idea back when we were kids? I remember quite a bit about that in geography lessons...

No I'm not mentioning it because its an issue I disagree with. It was mentioned in an article as one of the things they focus on and I don't know much else they look at. The point is that it is a pretty strong political line even by labour standards, e.g. the world trade unions congress reject boycott. By contrast there was 100% consensus over South Africa.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 65

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 7:52:58 AM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

After the Right invented the "right to tell lies" over Fox-TV, and the "right to blame our political enemies for whatever we like" (see the Media and Oslo thread), we now have wingnuts insisting on the "right to be a hypocrite".

Actually, if you went back and read the actual court case involved with the "telling lies" in the media issue, you'll discover that this was a well established mainstream media position.

But you only wish to attribute that concept to Fox ... which is either an example of deception or ignorance on your part.

But certainly a partisan position on your part, either way.

Firm

I vote for ignorance, but its not her fault. She has a version of IE that overrides search engines to screen out anything but hateful links.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 66

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 7:56:56 AM

Moonhead

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I don't think there was ever a unanimous consensus over south africa. The reason there was all the talk about boycotts was because the fruit and wine was in all of the supermarkets (and often cheap, if memory serves) in the first pace, wasn't it?

It is an unusual political stance, though. No question about that.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

Post #: 67

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 7:57:19 AM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

Beck got it backwards, the German National Socialists modeled their youth camps and programs with their Nazi 'improvements' on Scandinavian youth camps and groups that had been in operation long before Hitler was born.

His statement isnt backwards, its silent on what may or may not have existed before the HJ. If someone said "blah blah sounds like 80s style trickle down economics" it ignores that supply side theory predates Reagan by at least 40 years but still may not be an incorrect statement.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to FirstQuaker)

Post #: 68

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 8:05:58 AM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

You agree with Beck and Breivik then.

So, I guess this means that civil discourse, in which you actually have to .. you know ... think and support your position? ... isn't exactly your cup o' tea?

You feel like something is correct, therefore it is?

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 69

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 8:06:25 AM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/26/glenn-beck-norwegian-dead-hitler

What he doesn't seem to understand is that, in Norway, there's a long tradition of political groups (of varying ideals) sponsoring or helping out in youth groups like that one, firstly to promote the concept of democracy among the young and also to encourage youngsters to take an active interest in politics and debate, as well as, of course, to have a good time and interact with each other. It’s also a form of social service for many, similar in many ways to the Scout movement.

Well ok, there's a fuckload of stuff he doesn't understand, and that's just one of them, but you get the point.

What is saddening is that someone should value an increase in their ratings by using such outrageously ignorant statements, over the simple human kindness of letting the dead lie, and the living grieve. Poor show. Very poor show.

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 70

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 8:12:59 AM

Anaxagoras

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From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
I don't think there was ever a unanimous consensus over south africa. The reason there was all the talk about boycotts was because the fruit and wine was in all of the supermarkets (and often cheap, if memory serves) in the first pace, wasn't it?

It is an unusual political stance, though. No question about that.

You're right, its overstating the case to say there was 100% consensus over South Africa but from what I recall of it that was pretty much consensus amongst labour unions even though shops still stocked South African produce, and by the late 80's quite a number of Western countries imposed trade restrictions on South Africa.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 71

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:05:11 AM

Owner59

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Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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She pointed out the "protesters" wearing swastikas and the like.

How else should she refer to them?

In what politically correct way should she call a spade a spade without ruffling the delicate senses of you conservatives?

We remember the marches, Firm.

We remember the posters,and the gun brandishing and the targets and threats of violence.

What,did you think the conservative "protesters" doing that shit would be forgotten?

Maybe by you guys but not by the rest of America.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/26/2011 9:06:01 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 72

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:09:35 AM

Owner59

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And again as I pointed out in another thread,why does it make doing something entirely gross and disgusting OK just because someone else,somewhere else, did it too?

That doesn`t make sense or excuse anything.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 73

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:11:04 AM

FirmhandKY

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Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

She pointed out the "protesters" wearing swastikas and the like.

How else should she refer to them?

In what politically correct way should she call a spade a spade without ruffling the delicate senses of you conservatives?

We remember the marches, Firm.

We remember the posters,and the gun brandishing and the targets and threats of violence.

What,did you think the conservative "protesters" doing that shit would be forgotten?

Maybe by you guys but not by the rest of America.

Well, setting aside the Pelosi remark ... what about all the Bush Admin stuff?

Was that ok by you?

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 74

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:24:16 AM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Can I just go with condemning Beck as an asshole in general? Though I wouldn't go with the Hitler Youth comparison, the whole "young whatevers" indoctrination camps certainly have an authoritarian, cultish scent about them.

In the U.S we routinely send our kids to camps based entirely upon religious affiliation.

Is this really any less cultish?

It was a horrific tragedy and to even invoke it to try any type of a point as if they some how deserved it is appalling.

anyone who carries on this conversation along these lines is sort of a monster.

Not referring to TheHeretic in any way shape or form...really.

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(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 75

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:50:19 AM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CountrySong

Personally, I like Beck - Not because I agree with him but rather because he makes people act and think. he makes them mad enough or scared enough to get off there butts and do something even if it is just post to a forum.

So you like the fact that he uses lies and deliberate misinformation to provoke people? You're comfortable knowing that the people who "get off their butts and do something" are acting on false assumptions? Do you think that angry people who are acting on false assumptions are going to move the debate in a productive direction? I don't understand how anyone who values integrity and fairness, as you seem to do, could possibly endorse lying, hate-mongering propagandists like Beck.

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(in reply to CountrySong)

Post #: 76

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 10:05:28 AM

BitaTruble

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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

now there is the highest order oxymoron said in this century. should be in the guiness book of world records of cognitive dissonance.

I have never gotten such a high compliment in my life. Thank you, RO. I feel validated. I believe in the right to be an asshole if you so choose hence, I support KKK rallies and the Westboro Church's right to spew and assemble at their leisure even if the people who would attend such things want to make me puke. That's what the 1st is about.. not trying to STOP such things from happening and I would never support any legislation which would affect ones ability to be a complete and utter waste of flesh and spew poo to their hearts content. Burn a flag if you want, you have the right.. you also have the right to put yer hate on for people who burn flags and spew poo.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 77

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 10:10:23 AM

mnottertail

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Joined: 11/3/2004
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and it is spelt guinness. like the beer. because it's the same guys.

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(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 78

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 10:29:39 AM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/26/glenn-beck-norwegian-dead-hitler

...will all of the collar me posters join me in utterly and without reservation condemning Glenn Beck for this appalling comment?

My knee-jerk? He's a rapacious, putrid piece of rotted garbage and if he has a soul, it's probably dark, perhaps even evil and he doesn't deserve to live in his bag of skin. If he fell off the edge of the Universe and was heard no more, I think our species would be better for it. Hitler references about these children? Really? That's just a no and his hypocrisy apparently knows no bounds.

That said, I am a Constitutionalist and as such a firm believer in freedom of speech and will defend even a vile and salacious stump-fucker like Becks right to make such comments whether I may agree with the sentiment or not so while it pains me from the depths he has the 'right' to make them.. he doesn't, however, appear to have the brains *not* to make them.

now there is the highest order oxymoron said in this century. should be in the guiness book of world records of cognitive dissonance.

I have never gotten such a high compliment in my life. Thank you, RO. I feel validated. I believe in the right to be an asshole if you so choose hence, I support KKK rallies and the Westboro Church's right to spew and assemble at their leisure even if the people who would attend such things want to make me puke. That's what the 1st is about.. not trying to STOP such things from happening and I would never support any legislation which would affect ones ability to be a complete and utter waste of flesh and spew poo to their hearts content. Burn a flag if you want, you have the right.. you also have the right to put yer hate on for people who burn flags and spew poo.

the articles of confederatin and the constitution do not grant rights in fact they take away or conceded certain rights for the formation of a government.

the bill of rights that you trumpet do not apply to you as the individual. the supreme court said that in a bullshit opinion that to this day is being upheld.

Its perfectly clear who is enraged with hate in this conversation.

fyi the declaration of independence is the declaration of rights in america.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/26/2011 10:31:07 AM >

_____________________________

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Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 79

RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 10:34:45 AM

Fightdirecto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CountrySong

Our society is based on balances of white male power or it used to be when we were a Republic.

As soon as I saw this part of your post, I learned more about you than I ever wanted to know.

Our society, which is still a Republic, is based on balancing the needs and desires of all Americans - male, female, white, black, asian, hispanic, religious, non-religious - not just white males.

(in reply to CountrySong)

Post #: 80

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