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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 6:50:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Hey, you don't APOLOGIZE for Nazis unless you're sympathetic to Nazis. Simple enough.

I'm not fucking apologising for Nazi's. I'm saying one teenage boy shouldn't be condemned as a Nazi for merely joining Hitler Youth when he faced possible death. Look up my old posts and you'll see I went to great lengths to defend Judaism from anti-Semitic conspiracy theory. I doubt anyone on here actually did more. Others on here would attest to that fact.

quote:

And Nazi Sympathizers should do the world a favor and put a revolver in their mouths and blow their brains out just like their Uncle Adolph. ( N.B.: Use a Walther semi automatic instead of a revolver for thorough historical accuracy... )

Its pretty disgusting to encourage suicide. You're a real classy individual. So much for your faith eh?

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 6:55:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Hey, you don't APOLOGIZE for Nazis unless you're sympathetic to Nazis. Simple enough.

I'm not fucking apologising for Nazi's. I'm saying one teenage boy shouldn't be condemned as a Nazi for merely joining Hitler Youth when he faced possible death.

Ratzinger joined the Hitler Youth. That makes him a Nazi. You're apologizing for him. That means you're a Nazi apologist.

That's reality. Deal with it. Don't like it? Stop sympathizing with Nazis, and condemn them for their choices to be evil.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

And Nazi Sympathizers should do the world a favor and put a revolver in their mouths and blow their brains out just like their Uncle Adolph. ( N.B.: Use a Walther semi automatic instead of a revolver for thorough historical accuracy... )

Its pretty disgusting to encourage suicide. You're a real classy individual. So much for your faith eh?

Unless you're a Nazi Sympathizer, I don't see how you could take offense at the suggestion. Oh, well.... I guess that proves my point again.

Well, I'm sorry that you're offended by my exhortation for Nazi Sympathizers commit suicide.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/31/2011 6:57:21 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 6:57:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
That's a cheap shot. I do not know what I would do faced with that kind of situation.

Sure you do. You'd do the same thing you've already told us was the right thing to do. Join. How could you not, if it's good enough for the Pope?

Not only are you carrying water for a Nazi, but by doing that you show yourself to be a Nazi Sympathizer ( otherwise how could you honestly justify Ratzinger's actions? ) and that in the same situation, that you yourself lack the balls to do the right thing.

I don't give a fuck about the Pope. I just strongly criticised the Vatican in another post before yours.

I could not in good conscience tell a teenage boy faced with that sort of situation to essentially commit suicide. That is what you are effectively doing with the stance you adopt. That would be a disgusting thing to do.

You are quite simply a moron to think defending the choice of a young teenage male to save himself is in effect being a Nazi sympathesiser. Go back to your 6x6 cell.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:00:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
That's a cheap shot. I do not know what I would do faced with that kind of situation.

Sure you do. You'd do the same thing you've already told us was the right thing to do. Join. How could you not, if it's good enough for the Pope?

Not only are you carrying water for a Nazi, but by doing that you show yourself to be a Nazi Sympathizer ( otherwise how could you honestly justify Ratzinger's actions? ) and that in the same situation, that you yourself lack the balls to do the right thing.

I don't give a fuck about the Pope. I just strongly criticised the Vatican in another post before yours.

I could not in good conscience tell a teenage boy faced with that sort of situation to essentially commit suicide. That is what you are effectively doing with the stance you adopt. That would be a disgusting thing to do.

You are quite simply a moron to think defending the choice of a young teenage male to save himself is in effect being a Nazi sympathesiser. Go back to your 6x6 cell.

So, the young teenaged male who shoved Jews into the gas chamber, he's not responsible either? I mean, they would have killed him too if he didn't do his job, right?

NOW do you understand the problem with you carrying water for Nazis? There's no such thing as "a little-bit Nazi"...

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/31/2011 7:01:33 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:01:55 PM

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Farble is desperately trying to cover for his own fuck-up in voting people into office that put us into this mess, and even more lamely claiming that the other party is responsible.

After all this, religion is the only thing that people so incredibly stupid as to give any credulity to political ideology of any sort can point to in vain attempt to make themselves appear worthy of wasting the space and resources of the planet.

At least half the responders here fall into the category, no need to mention.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/31/2011 7:06:25 PM >

(in reply to Edwynn)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:02:25 PM

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From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Hey, you don't APOLOGIZE for Nazis unless you're sympathetic to Nazis. Simple enough.

I'm not fucking apologising for Nazi's. I'm saying one teenage boy shouldn't be condemned as a Nazi for merely joining Hitler Youth when he faced possible death.

Ratzinger joined the Hitler Youth. That makes him a Nazi. You're apologizing for him. That means you're a Nazi apologist.

That's reality. Deal with it. Don't like it? Stop sympathizing with Nazis, and condemn them for their choices to be evil.

He joined it under very severe duress. The laws of most nations recognise duress de-legitimises any contract (such as membership of a given organisation). Thus he wasn't a Nazi.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
And Nazi Sympathizers should do the world a favor and put a revolver in their mouths and blow their brains out just like their Uncle Adolph. ( N.B.: Use a Walther semi automatic instead of a revolver for thorough historical accuracy... )

Its pretty disgusting to encourage suicide. You're a real classy individual. So much for your faith eh?

Unless you're a Nazi Sympathizer, I don't see how you could take offense at the suggestion. Oh, well.... I guess that proves my point again.

Well, I'm sorry that you're offended by my exhortation for Nazi Sympathizers commit suicide.

Bullshit. I wasn't offended at you suggesting Nazi's should commit suicide but you suggested I should for simply saying a teenage boy shouldn't be condemned as a Nazi for being forced to join an organisation.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:03:58 PM

Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
That's a cheap shot. I do not know what I would do faced with that kind of situation.

Sure you do. You'd do the same thing you've already told us was the right thing to do. Join. How could you not, if it's good enough for the Pope?

Not only are you carrying water for a Nazi, but by doing that you show yourself to be a Nazi Sympathizer ( otherwise how could you honestly justify Ratzinger's actions? ) and that in the same situation, that you yourself lack the balls to do the right thing.

I don't give a fuck about the Pope. I just strongly criticised the Vatican in another post before yours.

I could not in good conscience tell a teenage boy faced with that sort of situation to essentially commit suicide. That is what you are effectively doing with the stance you adopt. That would be a disgusting thing to do.

You are quite simply a moron to think defending the choice of a young teenage male to save himself is in effect being a Nazi sympathesiser. Go back to your 6x6 cell.

So, the young teenaged male who shoved Jews into the gas chamber, he's not responsible either? I mean, they would have killed him too if he didn't do his job, right?

NOW do you understand the problem with you carrying water for Nazis? There's no such thing as "a little-bit Nazi"...

Which fucking teenage male shoved Jews into a gas chamber? The Pope certainly didn't.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:04:41 PM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

The laws of most nations recognise duress de-legitimises any contract (such as membership of a given organisation). Thus he wasn't a Nazi.

The laws in Nazi occupied Europe said that suspected Jews must be reported. Was that right? Of course not. We're not talking about Laws. We're talking about morals and honor and duty and respect. All things which the Law is mute on.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:05:55 PM

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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I think Christians and Muslims are deluding themselves that their "Testaments" are anything but unauthorized fanfics.

The first five books of the Bible are a collection of older stories woven together and massaged by priests to create a common historiography for a diverse group of tribes.

Get over it.

K.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:07:27 PM

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Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

You left out what imo is the worst of the evils...covering up the child abuse and enabling it to continue. People, even priests, have failings. Their organizations should be better than them.

We need not dig into Ratzinger's past to find evils. We can find them in his modern day actions. That's what makes him the perfect Pope.

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:08:38 PM

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From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

The laws of most nations recognise duress de-legitimises any contract (such as membership of a given organisation). Thus he wasn't a Nazi.

The laws in Nazi occupied Europe said that suspected Jews must be reported. Was that right? Of course not. We're not talking about Laws. We're talking about morals and honor and duty and respect. All things which the Law is mute on.

Again I say where did he report Jews or shove them into gas chambers?

I'm not talking about the laws of the Nazi's but a generally accepted principle of duress which is applied in voiding contracts around the world today. He was put under duress to join.

The law is also typically based on moral principles. Ever heard of thou shalt not kill?

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:09:02 PM

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FR

Interesting read: http://atheism.about.com/od/benedictxvi/i/RatzingerNazi.htm

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:10:34 PM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
That's a cheap shot. I do not know what I would do faced with that kind of situation.

Sure you do. You'd do the same thing you've already told us was the right thing to do. Join. How could you not, if it's good enough for the Pope?

Not only are you carrying water for a Nazi, but by doing that you show yourself to be a Nazi Sympathizer ( otherwise how could you honestly justify Ratzinger's actions? ) and that in the same situation, that you yourself lack the balls to do the right thing.

I don't give a fuck about the Pope. I just strongly criticised the Vatican in another post before yours.

I could not in good conscience tell a teenage boy faced with that sort of situation to essentially commit suicide. That is what you are effectively doing with the stance you adopt. That would be a disgusting thing to do.

You are quite simply a moron to think defending the choice of a young teenage male to save himself is in effect being a Nazi sympathesiser. Go back to your 6x6 cell.

So, the young teenaged male who shoved Jews into the gas chamber, he's not responsible either? I mean, they would have killed him too if he didn't do his job, right?

NOW do you understand the problem with you carrying water for Nazis? There's no such thing as "a little-bit Nazi"...

Which fucking teenage male shoved Jews into a gas chamber? The Pope certainly didn't.

Samuel Kunz was prosecuted as a minor, wasn't he?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:19:08 PM

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From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
So, the young teenaged male who shoved Jews into the gas chamber, he's not responsible either? I mean, they would have killed him too if he didn't do his job, right?

NOW do you understand the problem with you carrying water for Nazis? There's no such thing as "a little-bit Nazi"...

Which fucking teenage male shoved Jews into a gas chamber? The Pope certainly didn't.

Samuel Kunz was prosecuted as a minor, wasn't he?

Indeed and that was wrong, no argument there but that is a very different situation to Ratzinger.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:20:43 PM

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FR

Another interesting read: http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Catholic/2005/04/Cardinal-Ratzinger-Is-A-Lamentable-Choice-For-Pope.aspx?p=1

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:24:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Interesting read: http://atheism.about.com/od/benedictxvi/i/RatzingerNazi.htm

Thank you for sharing this. That said, I can see how people are still up in arms about this. When we think of a leader that is in charge of an institution as influential and powerful as the Catholic Church, we think of a person who would have had more strength of character to resist such evil.

The article also outlines that he was more than likely untruthful in many of his accounts, which of course creates suspicion and doubt.

I'm not implying he was a Nazi. I'm implying he was weak.

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:26:10 PM

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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
So, the young teenaged male who shoved Jews into the gas chamber, he's not responsible either? I mean, they would have killed him too if he didn't do his job, right?

NOW do you understand the problem with you carrying water for Nazis? There's no such thing as "a little-bit Nazi"...

Which fucking teenage male shoved Jews into a gas chamber? The Pope certainly didn't.

Samuel Kunz was prosecuted as a minor, wasn't he?

Indeed and that was wrong, no argument there but that is a very different situation to Ratzinger.

So, one teenager gets a pass, but another doesn't? Where do you draw the line between "Good Nazi" and "Bad Nazi", then? Me? I don't see a distinction. You help Your Uncle Adolph, you're a piece of shit. I don't care if it's trying to shoot down American pilots over a slave-labor factory like ratzinger or working in a death camp. Nazi is as Nazi does, and there ain't no "Good Nazis".... As a Catholic, what did Ratzinger fear so much about going to meet his god that joining the Nazis was the attractive option? Shouldn't he have welcomed the opportunity to become a martyr?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:31:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
FR

Interesting read: http://atheism.about.com/od/benedictxvi/i/RatzingerNazi.htm

I read this article. It includes a small defense section but overall it seems pretty unbalanced by basically stating he should have done more with a lot of baseless inference and vague suggestions he was lying. I'm not suggesting he is an angel but he was a fourteen year old boy living in perhaps the most vicious barbaric regime of all time.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:32:46 PM

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Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

As a Catholic, what did Ratzinger fear so much about going to meet his god that joining the Nazis was the attractive option? Shouldn't he have welcomed the opportunity to become a martyr?

I don't necessarily agree with everything else you wrote in this post, but I will say that this is a very good statement. And I believe it's because in every believer's mind, there is always a speckle of doubt that there is nothing after this world. No amount of indoctrination can trump the human survival instinct. He did what he had to do to survive. He showed that he was a weak, fallible human.

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 7:33:32 PM

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Joined: 10/26/2008
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The Pope has far less to do with the workings of everyday Catholics as you idiots have in being directed by your presidents or prime ministers or chancellors.

Time for you 'voters' to get caught up on things here.

You need to explain yourselves first, forget your blind belligerence, being as that you actually made the choices here, poorly chosen, quite ill-considered, and destructive as they have been.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/31/2011 7:50:47 PM >

(in reply to farglebargle)

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