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Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 11:16:09 AM

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From: Tamaris
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Although I get the general gist that many peoples don't like immigrants in their countries for various reasons, I have to ask would those same people ever consider emigrating themselves ?

Sure, many cannot see themselves ever moving out of their country of origin, but what if the country of origin began to work against you, would you just take it and buckle under the load, or consider moving elsewhere ?

Now from my observations it is not just foreigners who appear to come in for flack in the host country, but in some respects others from within the country that move elsewhere ( for jobs mainly and sometimes housing ), are treated with some suspicion, for example everyone knows an Englishman in Scotland or Wales will come in for a hard time, be that ribaldry or out and out dislike, and that mainly becsuse of things that happened hundreds of years ago, then there is even the North/South divide in England and further to that inter county dislike. So those that move within their country of origin's territories though not immigrants as we know them, but they are immigrants from one part of the country to another. What does that say about us ?

Is it we are just untrusting of anyone new and with that they are the immediate target for blame for whatever fault is seen ?

Is the immigrant tension getting greater, both external and internal, or is the latter not counted ?

But is emmigration and immigration a good thing, or should we all just stay put and accept what comes better or worse ?

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 11:29:24 AM

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I certainly have my thought on immigration. However, the few people I have known who have emmigrated from the US have done so because they wanted to take advantage of lower retirement costs in other countries, with one notable exception. My sister has actually emmigrated (probably illegally) to Italy. She did so because she has always hated living in the US, and really liked Italy. She also got tired of people telling her to "Love America or leave it" and she chose the latter, since she knew this country would never change enough for her liking. While she was having difficult becoming "legal" in Italy, I don't think she has suffered the slightest bit of suspicion from individual Italians. For her, I think it was a good thing. For Italy, I'm not so sure.

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(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 12:13:57 PM

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One of the things I love about the anti immigration arguments, is that a lot of the middle englander Mail readers who come out with them are looking to move to Spain when they retire. They'll move to some pissing old fart's resort on the coast, won't learn Spanish, won't talk to anybody who isn't English, will settle down into a closed insular community isolated from the culture of their new country and won't make any effort to integrate.
This is exactly the same shit the Mail always complains about the Pakistanis and the gold coast immigrants doing, isn't it?

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(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 12:27:24 PM

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True enough. I couldn't believe how many English retirees I met on the Costa del Sol.
Bribing public officials in order to build more resorts on the coast for retirees seemed to be the main industry.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

One of the things I love about the anti immigration arguments, is that a lot of the middle englander Mail readers who come out with them are looking to move to Spain when they retire. They'll move to some pissing old fart's resort on the coast, won't learn Spanish, won't talk to anybody who isn't English, will settle down into a closed insular community isolated from the culture of their new country and won't make any effort to integrate.
This is exactly the same shit the Mail always complains about the Pakistanis and the gold coast immigrants doing, isn't it?

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Moonhead)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 12:29:49 PM

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It's loathsome. Particularly coming from cunts with NF tattoos.

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(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 12:59:22 PM

tj444

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When I lived in Western Canada, I referred to those Canadians that came to the west from any where east of Alberta as “foreigners”.. I was joking, of course,.. sort of hahaha..

There just is a different mentality between people from various provinces.. my ex was originally from Ontario.. and look how that turned out.. try to mix water and oil..

Well,.. I have already done it.. once, so far.. moved from my birth country to another, at least for a time, not sure at this point if it will be for very long. I will always be a Canadian and reserve my right to move back to take advantage of the health care should I need it! Ha

I don’t like the US govt and the police state they have turned it into… unless there is a serious reason for me to stay put here, meaning I get a future boyfriend that I am very happily living with.. I expect my next stop will be either Turks and Caicos or Costa Rica,. At this point anyway.. but who knows, I could end up in Australia instead.. I have no ties of any consequence now so I can go anywhere, really…

I will say this tho, moving to whatever country (the US or elsewhere), I contribute, contrary to the general stereotype, and I don’t use the medical system, I pay for myself, I don’t have kids that go to school, I did not take anyone’s job, etc. And I would learn the language there as well, if its not English.

I personally think that immigration for certain countries is almost a necessity since the birth rate has dropped and that can cause a country financial problems when too many people retire too fast, like what will happen with the boomers… some countries need more people to make up the slack in dwindling tax revenues..

Jmo..

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RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 1:02:19 PM

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It's very difficult to get immigration papers to Australia unless you work in a trade they're keen to collect at the moment.

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(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to tj444)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 1:08:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

But is emmigration and immigration a good thing, or should we all just stay put and accept what comes better or worse ?

I beleive chances came once in a lifetime, if you have one even if it was in the moon you should go get it,
no matter what others may say,

PS: immigration is not a bad thing, some people need it for protection, for giving them a second chance in life (my case),
however, I will not go after illegal immigration, I will travell to Turkey the next month & seek a period on asylum there, & with some support of the UNHCR, will go to another distination.

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(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 1:11:09 PM

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Good luck.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to ashjor911)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 1:16:58 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

It's very difficult to get immigration papers to Australia unless you work in a trade they're keen to collect at the moment.

its not something i have looked into at this point, I will be here for i expect a year, give or take, so not come to any conclusions where yet... and, it might be that i have one foot in one country and another foot in another one.. which would be cool too.

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Moonhead)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 1:18:05 PM

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You might get lucky with that one, but they're very keen to make immigration as difficult as they can at the moment.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to tj444)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 2:02:29 PM

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Luck is the only thing I will need,
Good luck, wel you are just beeing generous

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"operative" working undercover for the federal government of bangladesh.

my name is : bonsh ... jamesh bonsh.
code name : 009.5
licensed to give formla

(in reply to Moonhead)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 2:05:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

It's very difficult to get immigration papers to Australia unless you work in a trade they're keen to collect at the moment.

its not something i have looked into at this point, I will be here for i expect a year, give or take, so not come to any conclusions where yet... and, it might be that i have one foot in one country and another foot in another one.. which would be cool too.

Given the distance, you should be very limber, do your stretches before planting your feet so distant and cover your gap, cuz you would just be begging for it at that point.

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RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 4:39:26 PM

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From: Tamaris
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I brought this topic up for the very reason Mr Moonhead posted about, the fact that whilst some decry the immigrants, they do not class themselves as that when they retire elsewhere. So what I am saying or rather asking here, is there a double standard, a standard that applies to those in the west but denied those outside of the west, and if so why, are we that arrogant ?

And if arrogant, is that or will that be our undoing ?

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 5:16:21 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
So what I am saying or rather asking here, is there a double standard, a standard that applies to those in the west but denied those outside of the west, and if so why, are we that arrogant ?

And if arrogant, is that or will that be our undoing ?

Imo, for many people the answer is yes, there is a double standard, sometimes even against immigrants from friendly neigbouring countries.
I have no idea if that will be your undoing or not. I have been on Canadian forums and said that immigration there needs to be increased if people expect to not get cuts and claw backs in their pensions down the road.. but most are strongly against more immigration.. ah well...

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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 6:49:36 PM

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From: Tamaris
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As we are seeing industry move to cheaper countries via outsourcing, those countries are rising in status because of the foreign work, no doubt in time if this trend continues where in the world will the poor countries be ? And if say those countries the corporations invest in become very attractive to those of the west as a place to move to to seek their fortune, what will those who condemn immigrants do then, bite the bullet and stay at home in the squalor that will undoubtedly happen because they don't believe in immigration, or do what is best for themselves and their families and move to where they can have a better life ?

Which all goes on to say, is our countries of origin our home for life, or is it each and every country is a transient place, the population moves where the conditions are better, just like it has always done from the end of the Ice Age ?

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to tj444)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 8:48:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Although I get the general gist that many peoples don't like immigrants in their countries for various reasons, I have to ask would those same people ever consider emigrating themselves ?

Sure, many cannot see themselves ever moving out of their country of origin, but what if the country of origin began to work against you, would you just take it and buckle under the load, or consider moving elsewhere ?

Now from my observations it is not just foreigners who appear to come in for flack in the host country, but in some respects others from within the country that move elsewhere ( for jobs mainly and sometimes housing ), are treated with some suspicion, for example everyone knows an Englishman in Scotland or Wales will come in for a hard time, be that ribaldry or out and out dislike, and that mainly becsuse of things that happened hundreds of years ago, then there is even the North/South divide in England and further to that inter county dislike. So those that move within their country of origin's territories though not immigrants as we know them, but they are immigrants from one part of the country to another. What does that say about us ?

Is it we are just untrusting of anyone new and with that they are the immediate target for blame for whatever fault is seen ?

Is the immigrant tension getting greater, both external and internal, or is the latter not counted ?

But is emmigration and immigration a good thing, or should we all just stay put and accept what comes better or worse ?

Howdy Aneirin, the problem I am having with this topic is, there is a BIG difference in my eyes between legal and illegal immigration.

As far as I know, people have always immigrated from one place to another place.
People should be free to legally immigrate where they want to go.

One of the main issues/problems that we face here in America, is what is or should be, the status of those that come here illegally, and have no intention on leaving here.

Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/11/2011 8:51:06 PM >

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NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 8:53:43 PM

tj444

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No, i dont think most will leave the US, they will move within the US instead to states and cities that have better economic prospects. To immigrate to another country costs money and takes time which would be one hinderance. Imo, the only ones that it would happen for are people like the ones now that have particular skills and training and are offered work outside of the US and likely younger and single so its easier for them rather than someone with a family. Rich people of course have it a lot easier, they can own homes in several different countries and travel to whichever they want to.

Most people have a comfort zone and they dont like to leave it, most live close to their family and wont ever move and certainly not to another country. I asked people on a forum a few years ago, if they had money and could live or move anywhere, where would that be? Nearly all would have stayed put or only moved a short distance away... Where i grew up, i can safely say that most are still living in that same province. That is all they know and want to know..

Imo too, there are a small number of people that move to a different country and they have a certain personality, perhaps some gypsy in them, a sense of adventure, wanderlust, so for people like that, its not really for economic reasons that they go...

For the majority, they will stay in the US and leaving wont even enter their mind.

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/11/2011 9:28:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

One of the things I love about the anti immigration arguments, is that a lot of the middle englander Mail readers who come out with them are looking to move to Spain when they retire. They'll move to some pissing old fart's resort on the coast, won't learn Spanish, won't talk to anybody who isn't English, will settle down into a closed insular community isolated from the culture of their new country and won't make any effort to integrate.
This is exactly the same shit the Mail always complains about the Pakistanis and the gold coast immigrants doing, isn't it?

I visited Marbella/Malaga/Estepona/ the Costa del Sol back in 87. One would think that sharing a common language would count for something, but the few Brits that I engaged with (after about a day I figured out that it was pointless; the Andalusians were better-mannered and more charming) were insular, provincial, irredeemable pricks.

I cannot speak to the Ami expat communities, as I avoid Amis when I travel, to the point of carrying a copy of Suddeutsch Zeitung and pretending to know no English if spoken to in English.

If I could get the same pain management care that I currently get, I'd emigrate to Germany in a New York minute.

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(in reply to Moonhead)

RE: Emmigration ? - 8/12/2011 6:35:00 AM

kdsub

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Immigrants are always seen as outsiders and competitors for resources. In times of plenty they are tolerated and sometimes even accepted into the local society. But…in times of economic or political hardship friction arises often leading to prejudice and violence.

Butch

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