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If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 6:16:56 PM

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If Islam took over the western world, that being Europe and America, what difference would it make from the present

What is it, atheists woudn't be tolerated, or perhaps at best dimmified ?

At one time Islam was all about knowledge art and learning, the Moorish conquest of Spain proved that and the old schools of mathematics in what is now Iraq giving us much that we now use as de rigeur in engineering, Algebra being but one example.

But the Islamic world has brought us much, so I ask why do we fear Islam so much, are they that evil or is the truth that they are the new Ruskies, i.e. an ideal to fear and arm against ?

If you are a god fearing person, Christian or Jew what problem do you have with a religion which is based on the same ?

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 6:29:54 PM

Aylee

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It is because we do not want to give up our schnapps.

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RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 6:31:03 PM

Rule

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They have a six times higher frequency of lethal inherited diseases. They are inbred. They - generic - lack Grace, i.e. many of them are without a conscience. They murder females.

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RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 6:31:09 PM

hlen5

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As a Christian, I have no problem with Islam.

My problem is ANYONE using religion to justify murder and other crimes. This includes: "ethnic cleansing", using Christianity as justification for destroying Native American cultures and the despicable hypocrisy of priests blessing slave ships before they embarked on the Middle Passage.

EFSpelling

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 8/20/2011 6:33:40 PM >

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RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 6:34:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

If Islam took over the western world, that being Europe and America, what difference would it make from the present

What is it, atheists woudn't be tolerated, or perhaps at best dimmified ?

At one time Islam was all about knowledge art and learning, the Moorish conquest of Spain proved that and the old schools of mathematics in what is now Iraq giving us much that we now use as de rigeur in engineering, Algebra being but one example.

But the Islamic world has brought us much, so I ask why do we fear Islam so much, are they that evil or is the truth that they are the new Ruskies, i.e. an ideal to fear and arm against ?

If you are a god fearing person, Christian or Jew what problem do you have with a religion which is based on the same ?

I'm not a god fearing person, so perhaps my opinion is the one you are looking for. I do have an issue with any religious faction that wants to dictate what I do with my life. I also have a bigger problem with religions that promote violence and killing. That said, the Old and New Testament are full of it, though the Jews and Christians have, for the most part, decided not to take a lot of it literally.

Why are people particularly scared of Islam? Part of it is propaganda, and part of what the religion has become for many extremists, that is taking the words of the prophet literally. Sam Harris has some interesting comments on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfKLV6rmLxE

That said, I'm not afraid of Islam nor Muslims. I do however have major issues with anyone who uses religion to justify violating human rights and killing.

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 8/20/2011 6:37:01 PM >

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RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 6:35:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

They have a six times higher frequency of lethal inherited diseases. They are inbred. They - generic - lack Grace, i.e. many of them are without a conscience. They murder females.

And you don't have a clue.

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RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 7:19:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

They have a six times higher frequency of lethal inherited diseases. They are inbred. They - generic - lack Grace, i.e. many of them are without a conscience. They murder females.

Eh? If you got this anywhere except off Fox Noise, I want to see it.

(in reply to Rule)

RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 7:20:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

They have a six times higher frequency of lethal inherited diseases. They are inbred. They - generic - lack Grace, i.e. many of them are without a conscience. They murder females.

Sorry Rule, the Christians of history have done very much the same, Christian is what most of our western countries say they are despite what their individual citizens believe. The Christian mindset is based on much of what we now denigrate muslims for, so in reality the Christian religion is no better than Islam, perhaps worse in some respects, as it is only in a recent century that we are defining our morals outside of religion, where in Islam according to researchers in history what Islam had was what we have now.

But as first Jews then Christians denigrate Islam as a new thing, perhaps it is since Judaism , followed by Christianity lost it's way, Islam could well have been a second coming, as who is to say Muhammad was wrong in what he said he experienced, or is it those that sought to deny where those in power and power derived from religion ?

A difference between Christianity and Islam of the middle ages was Islam taught literacy for all to better understand the Qur'an, wheras in Christianity, literacy was reserved for the elite to maybe teach the iliterate and undoubtedly in many cases no doubt the word of god was modified to suit the teachers purpose.

If you are interested in understanding much of what are presented with now, read up on the Moors when they inhabited Spain, for they despite being Muslim had problems with what was then Islamic extremists. The common thought is arid desert regions promote extremism, wheras the green fertile lands Muslims are more laid back.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Rule)

RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 7:52:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

They have a six times higher frequency of lethal inherited diseases. They are inbred. They - generic - lack Grace, i.e. many of them are without a conscience. They murder females.

Sorry Rule, the Christians of history have done very much the same, Christian is what most of our western countries say they are despite what their individual citizens believe. The Christian mindset is based on much of what we now denigrate muslims for, so in reality the Christian religion is no better than Islam, perhaps worse in some respects, as it is only in a recent century that we are defining our morals outside of religion, where in Islam according to researchers in history what Islam had was what we have now.

But as first Jews then Christians denigrate Islam as a new thing, perhaps it is since Judaism , followed by Christianity lost it's way, Islam could well have been a second coming, as who is to say Muhammad was wrong in what he said he experienced, or is it those that sought to deny where those in power and power derived from religion ?

A difference between Christianity and Islam of the middle ages was Islam taught literacy for all to better understand the Qur'an, wheras in Christianity, literacy was reserved for the elite to maybe teach the iliterate and undoubtedly in many cases no doubt the word of god was modified to suit the teachers purpose.

If you are interested in understanding much of what are presented with now, read up on the Moors when they inhabited Spain, for they despite being Muslim had problems with what was then Islamic extremists. The common thought is arid desert regions promote extremism, wheras the green fertile lands Muslims are more laid back.

Rolls eyes.. here we go again, another fucking history lesson that absolutely ignores current events - things like revolts, wars, and just crazy frggin dudes. Islam is the official state religion of Egypt, Tunisa, Libya, Bahrain, Pakistan - not to mention Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran.

So before you go asking your question, why don't you draw a highlighter through exactly what you mean when you say islam. Is it the mostly peaceful folks who have fled their homelands, the mostly peaceful who just try to get by in their homelands, or the crazies, the extremists, those who impose archaic and often brutal laws, those who insist upon a religious state?

I'm just curious, and I'd like an answer that doesn't span 12 centuries, because you know what, some dude that lived a thousand years ago is not someone I'm going to talk to, deal with, or have to sit down and figure out if he's... how did you say it, "defined his morals" yet.

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RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 8:14:35 PM

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Why do you believe algebra was "invented" by Islamic Arabs?

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RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 8:27:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

They have a six times higher frequency of lethal inherited diseases. They are inbred. They - generic - lack Grace, i.e. many of them are without a conscience. They murder females.

Eh? If you got this anywhere except off Fox Noise, I want to see it.

There should be a guide to P&R Personalities.

Rule is a Nederlander neo-Nazi, who believes circumcision causes genetic abnormalities, among other insane paranoid schizo notions. (it is rumored that the Devo song "MONGOLOID" was written about Rule.)

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to erieangel)

RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 8:44:18 PM

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Ok, what percentage of the whole Islamic culture is the extremist nut do you think, could it be similar do you think to the percentage of people in the west that also have supreme influence ?

That is, the most vociferous by whatever means, for example, media, politics or religion

Many of the Islamic culture live in regimes where they are told what to do with laws enforced if they don't comply, compare that with less authoritarian regimes, the Emirates for example and many more besides, hardly ever hear a peep from those countries, supressed, maybe, but tolerance seems to be the rule.

Furthermore money talks, relative poverty as we know creates idealism and those that fight for an ideal as what have they got to lose if ordinary life is shit.

Pakistan is a new country flexing it's muscles on the world stage, there will be more, but of older countries that are wealthy, i.e., they ensure a good standard of living for their populace, they tend to be more laid back

Thus it seems, money is the motivator, as it is anywhere else in the world, enough money and the troubles go away. My suggestion to Rule was to look at the Moorish conquest of Spain and that because what the Muslims became in Spain was culturaly wealthy, a society to perhaps be envied, but it fell because it ignored the warlike whilst concentrating on learning. The militant ruined it all along with another church whose missionaries bore death and destruction all in the name of religion.

Therefore religion is conquest and control and rewards for the minority.

But at the end of the day, people anywhere are just people, remove the religion and we will find other things to fight over, political party allegiance even.

But what do you suppose will happen if Islam came to reign in wealthy countries of the west, would they destroy or chill out when they realise money talks and freedoms are less restricted ?

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to StrangerThan)

RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 8:54:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
The Christian mindset is based on much of what we now denigrate muslims for, so in reality the Christian religion is no better than Islam, perhaps worse in some respects, as it is only in a recent century that we are defining our morals outside of religion, where in Islam according to researchers in history what Islam had was what we have now.

But as first Jews then Christians denigrate Islam as a new thing, perhaps it is since Judaism , followed by Christianity lost it's way, Islam could well have been a second coming, as who is to say Muhammad was wrong in what he said he experienced,

A difference between Christianity and Islam of the middle ages was Islam taught literacy for all to better understand the Qur'an, wheras in Christianity, literacy was reserved for the elite to maybe teach the iliterate and undoubtedly in many cases no doubt the word of god was modified to suit the teachers purpose.

If you are interested in understanding much of what are presented with now, read up on the Moors when they inhabited Spain, for they despite being Muslim had problems with what was then Islamic extremists.

There is a lot in this post that is so wrong (bolded text especially) it can only be seen IMO as apologism. I have said to Aneirin before that he lambasts Christianity and Judaism frequently, whilst bending over backwards to absolve Islam of any wrongdoing, and sometimes going as far as to glorify it such as here. He seems to posit the notion that Islam wouldn't be that bad if it took over the West! Surely even the Islamophiles on here would find that unacceptable? The idea of Islam "taking over" the West would be a disaster because that suggests a religious theocracy would often be imposed. Personally I support religious freedom not only for Muslims... but for everyone within a secular society.

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 8/20/2011 9:10:44 PM >

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 9:59:31 PM

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Error. Question about Algebra was to Aneirin.

< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 8/20/2011 10:00:43 PM >

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 10:23:23 PM

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Anaxagoras, surely you can see there is a better way forward in this world than what the media and those other interested parties tell us, as who are we other than nothing, who counts our oppinions, no one aside from perhaps user names on forums, who are in reality just more nothings in the face of those that control us all. And whilst we fight about what does not affect us on internet forums, our leaders continue to do what they do for themselves in our name and when it is they cannot get what they want by the usual coniving they feed us patriotic bullshit so we may spill blood for them.

Now I know you don't like me but I prefer to reserve judgement about you, but your petty attempts at denigration of myself only appeals to those like yourself, I am sure others reserve judgement and can see some way forward in what I occaisionaly say on this forum.

But what you call apologisim, could that not also be called a difference of oppinion, or is it we must all despise the Muslim because you say so and anyone who defies your oppinion must be denigrated ?

I seek peace in this world and I see three versions of a similar idea threatening world peace, each one trying to be dominant over all, dominance that equals death and destruction and so, as dominance cannot be obtained in any warlike manner, then the only other option is compromise and in order to achieve compromise, we must make heartfelt attempts to at least understand where each is coming from.

But as you believe my understanding of history to be incorrect, you should know, there are many versions of history besides that created by victors, history that is used to further individual political aims, thus there is no definitive history aside from that those inclined seek for themselves and with that, I tend to follow the academics not the leaders or religious politicians.

But following on from the Moorish decline in Spain, guess what followed, the catholic inquisition where many horrors were metered out on Muslims just for not being wholeheartedly god fearing Christian.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 10:32:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Error. Question about Algebra was to Aneirin.

1001 inventions coming to a city near you

Hell, even our numeral system brought to us by Fibonacci is based upon Indo-Arabic.

It is the culture and learning that I am interested in not the mind control religious bollocks

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 10:45:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Error. Question about Algebra was to Aneirin.

1001 inventions coming to a city near you

Hell, even our numeral system brought to us by Fibonacci is based upon Indo-Arabic.

It is the culture and learning that I am interested in not the mind control religious bollocks

"In India around the 5th century A.D. a sys tem of mathematics that made astronomical calculations easy was developed. In those times its application was limited to astronomy as its pioneers were Astronomers. Astronomical calculations are complex and involve many variables that go into the derivation of unknown quantities. Algebra is a short-hand method of calculation and by this feature it scores over conventional arithmetic.

In ancient India conventional mathematics termed Ganitam was known before the development of algebra. This is borne out by the name - Bijaganitam, which was given to the algebraic form of computation. Bijaganitam means 'the other mathematics' (Bija means 'another' or 'second' and Ganitam means mathematics). The fact that this name was chosen for this system of computation implies that it was recognized as a parallel system of computation, different from the conventional one which was used since the past and was till then the only one. Some have interpreted the term Bija to mean seed, symbolizing origin or beginning. And the inference that Bijaganitam was the original form of computation is derived. Credence is lent to this view by the existence of mathematics in the Vedic literature which was also shorthand method of computation. But whatever the origin of algebra, it is certain that this technique of computation Originated in India and was current around 1500 years back. Aryabhatta an Indian mathematican who lived in the 5th century A.D. has referred to Bijaganitam in his treatise on Mathematics, Aryabhattiya. An Indian mathematician - astronomer, Bhaskaracharya has also authored a treatise on this subject. the treatise which is dated around the 12th century A.D. is entitled 'Siddhanta-Shiromani' of which one section is entitled Bijaganitam.

Thus the technique of algebraic computation was known and was developed in India in earlier times. From the 13th century onwards, India was subject to invasions from the Arabs and other Islamised communities like the Turks and Afghans. Along with these invader: came chroniclers and critics like Al-beruni who studied Indian society and polity.

The Indian system of mathematics could no have escaped their attention. It was also the age of the Islamic Renaissance and the Arabs generally improved upon the arts and sciences that they imbibed from the land they overran during their great Jehad. Th system of mathematics they observed in India was adapted by them and given the name 'Al-Jabr' meaning 'the reunion of broken parts'. 'Al' means 'The' & 'Jabr' mean 'reunion'. This name given by the Arabs indicates that they took it from an external source and amalgamated it with their concepts about mathematics."
http://www.unitedindia.com/mathematics.htm

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 11:00:41 PM

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Most asinine OP of the century.

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RE: If Islam .......? - 8/20/2011 11:48:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Most asinine OP of the century.

Most douchebaggy ratfucker post in the last 14 minutes.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

RE: If Islam .......? - 8/21/2011 12:32:03 AM

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FR

. Some of will have to reconsider our participation here, perhaps it is not worth it.
But it only seemed that way. I must be wrong. I am always wrong, remember ?

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 8/21/2011 12:33:31 AM >

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