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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 10:43:50 AM

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Training is pretty minimal here. We learned each other - how the other operates, what affects us, what our responses are to things. I learned how he likes things, so I do my best to provide. He learned how I react to certain things, so he uses that knowledge to create an optimal environment, when possible. Keeps things pretty simple.

As for training, much like what agirl said - that really comes into play sexually. Training my throat to deep throat him, for example.

But training to submit? I adore him, and want to submit to him, so he tells me what to do, and I do it.

Regarding submitting being selfless, no, not here. It's totally fulfilling. I'm getting as much out of it as he is getting from receiving it. I need to be in a relationship in which I can be true to myself, and that means submitting to a man I love. If he didn't want my submission, I wouldn't be thriving with him. So it's not selfless for me at all.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 10:51:10 AM

chastityslaveFE

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Fast Reply: Osidegirl & Decadent Desire. No doubt performing cleaning and other domestic duties for yourself is an unfortunate fact of life. However, performing them for your Dominant is an act of service which presumably the submissive wouldn't perform if they didn't want to. Therefore it is in the Dominant's interests to make it enjoyable for the submissive, since they are the ones who benefit from not having to do it. chastity xxx

(in reply to agirl)

RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 10:57:08 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

My question would be, if they don't enjoy doing it, and the feeling of pleasing you is not enough to make it enjoyable, then where do you go from there?

back to the drawing board, back to the fucking dating pool. like i said, if you want somebody to submit to you, go find somebody who wants to fucking submit. if she needs constant reward beyond submitting - well isn't that what we call a do-me sub?

Well, Lord, that's half of my life!

If I don't enjoy something that he wants..... that's toooooo bad. I'm not divertedly bothered about pleasing him either! We have a working M/s relationship all the same :)

The answer to your question depends on how much satisfaction, and of what SORT, you get from who you're with. Seriously, cleaning is boring, dull on so many levels but there's not much that could make it less so.....so why should M have to get creative if I can't? All he does is stop me escaping by saying, * Do it by Tuesday*....for example. Job done.

agirl

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 10:57:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE

Fast Reply: Osidegirl & Decadent Desire. No doubt performing cleaning and other domestic duties for yourself is an unfortunate fact of life. However, performing them for your Dominant is an act of service which presumably the submissive wouldn't perform if they didn't want to. Therefore it is in the Dominant's interests to make it enjoyable for the submissive, since they are the ones who benefit from not having to do it. chastity xxx

Unless of course he enjoys seeing me do something that is not enjoyable for me, which happens from time to time.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 11:04:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE
Fast Reply: Osidegirl & Decadent Desire. No doubt performing cleaning and other domestic duties for yourself is an unfortunate fact of life. However, performing them for your Dominant ist an act of service which presumably the submissive wouldn't perform if they didn't want to. Therefore it is in the Dominant's interests to make it enjoyable for the submissive, since they are the ones who benefit from not having to do it. chastity xxx

Hmm...I'm sorry I don't share this same perspective. Hypothetically, if I was with someone I wanted to be my companion and we were in a long term committed relationship, then there is no "you" and "me", but "us". Therefore, performing cleaning and domestic duties is part of making "our" life better and not something "they" are doing for "me". Once again, this is why this kind of thing lays a poor foundation for a good D/S (and vanilla as Arpig rightfully pointed out) relationship, because it's making it about "you" do something for "me" instead of doing something to help "us".

Also, let's say I was to enter in a more casual, service oriented relationship with a girl. Well, if the act of performing service and receiving gratitude for that service was not fulfilling in and of itself, then there would not be any basis for having a service-oriented relationship.

I'm not against people doing chores for sex or engaging in the sexual fantasy of being "trained". It's just not for me or how I choose to approach my relationships.

I do, however, wish people would call a spade a spade and be honest about how their "training" is really about getting a stiff cock and a wet pussy instead of insisting that I join in their fantasy on online message boards (Not implying you are doing that. Just a personal note about this subject in general)

< Message edited by DecadentDesire -- 8/23/2011 11:17:37 AM >

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 11:10:21 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE

Fast Reply: Osidegirl & Decadent Desire. No doubt performing cleaning and other domestic duties for yourself is an unfortunate fact of life. However, performing them for your Dominant is an act of service which presumably the submissive wouldn't perform if they didn't want to. Therefore it is in the Dominant's interests to make it enjoyable for the submissive, since they are the ones who benefit from not having to do it. chastity xxx

Well, no again.

If I want a cuppa in bed in the morning I either get my youngest son to make it for me or I go without.

Getting up and making M his fresh coffee is a fucking pain in the arse. Nothing can make that an attractive prospect and I can assure you that M doesn't care THAT much whether I *like* it or not. He's not exactly making me shin up a chimney with a feather up my arse.

It's not enjoyable being owned, not on THAT level. On THAT level the whole things just stinks and I'd seriously be gone like a long-dog.

agirl

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 11:22:11 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE

F My question would be, if they don't enjoy doing it, and the feeling of pleasing you is not enough to make it enjoyable, then where do you go from there? I know us submissives are meant to be selfless and loving of service, but sometimes there is only so far that will take you, and obedience sometimes doesn't result in happiness for the submissive. Without associating the activity with their pleasure, how would you change that? thanks, chastity xxx

Just a note........M does MANY things that are selfless, for me. Some of those things aren't enjoyable for him at ALL but they are part and parcel of owning and being responsible for me.

I'm with M on this. We do things because they are required of us in the position we chose. We BOTH do things, on occasion, that we'd rather not have to be doing, because of the other, on some level.....it comes with the territory and is part of being together.

agirl

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 11:27:52 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE
Therefore it is in the Dominant's interests to make it enjoyable for the submissive, since they are the ones who benefit from not having to do it. chastity xxx

And what about all the amazing things they do for you? I haven't ever had enough time to thank or be appreciative toward M for all he does for me.......fuck's sake.

No, it's in MY interests to make it enjoyable for M! Seriously ,talk about tallying up the favours.

agirl

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 11:32:31 AM

HeatherMcLeather

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quote:

However, performing them for your Dominant is an act of service which presumably the submissive wouldn't perform if they didn't want to.

Oh absolutely! I hate doing dishes, but I love doing them for Hanners. But I didn't need any training. Why would you need to train somebody to do what they like doing? Nor do I need a system of rewards. Her pleasure in my service is the reward. My pride in doing what is required of me the best I can is my reward.

I don't submit to Hanners for some reward, submitting to her is the reward, that she allows me to submit to her, that's the payoff. It's what I want to do, I get turned on by doing it. Yes, even taking out the garbage has an erotic thrill, because she assigned that particular household task to me, so it's a kick to do it. If you don't find yourself feeling the same way, that your Dominant's happiness is all the reward required, then perhaps you have the wrong Dominant, or perhaps you aren't really submissive in a 24/7 sense, or maybe I'm just really weird, I don't know.

(in reply to agirl)

RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 11:34:34 AM

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I suppose my relationship involves (or has involved) "training" of some sort. "Training," to me, is a form of learning through guidance and communication. I don't need to be trained to submit to him. I submit to him because I love him, respect him, and honor his leadership and ownership of me. The "training" part comes in when I am to learn how he wants me to submit to him.The learning of habits and rituals the way he wants them to be. That is the training I've undergone by him.

Examples include how he likes certain drinks, how he wants his food prepared, how I am expected to behave, the correct pose I am to hold while he inspects me, knowing when to wait at the door for him to go through first, etc. Odds are, I don't need to be told more than once for simple things--to instill a habit in me, however, maybe I need to be reminded a few times after that. To that end, yes, there is training in our relationship; most of it is already said and done, now that I know how he likes things and what behavior is expected of me, so I suppose I should say that there "was" training in my relationship.

The training is based on good communication and guidance, and truly, most of it is simply he says he wants something this way, so I do it; but if you look at it, it is training nonetheless--I enjoy serving and pleasing him, thus doing things the way he wants nets me a form of positive reinforcement, in the form of words of praise or a satisfied expression on his face (his happiness.) I want him to approve of me and be proud of me. In that respect, people are not much different than dogs. It's just that everybody's motivations are different.

EDIT to respond to the question of "how do [you] learn to enjoy or accept things which [you] did not previously?":
There are plenty of things that I don't actively like doing. For example, scrubbing the toilet. Fuck no I don't like doing it. But. He decided it is my responsibility, so I am expected to do it. He told me to do it, so I do it. Very simple. And while I may not enjoy the actual action of scrubbing toilets, I enjoy obeying my Master. I will never enjoy scrubbing the toilet, but I like doing it for him, I like doing it for us. When the job is done, despite it being an unpleasant job, there is a smile on my face because I take pride in my hard work and in the completion of responsibilities handed to me by him.

< Message edited by RaspberryLemon -- 8/23/2011 11:44:56 AM >

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 11:40:35 AM

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quote:

Oh absolutely! I hate doing dishes, but I love doing them for Hanners. But I didn't need any training. Why would you need to train somebody to do what they like doing? Nor do I need a system of rewards. Her pleasure in my service is the reward. My pride in doing what is required of me the best I can is my reward.

Because some want things done a particular way. Training to wash dishes could be as simple as being shown where the dish soap or the dish washer is. It can be as complex as to how the dom/me wants a glass washed or the dishes stacked afterwards.

Training doesnt have to be an ongoing event. One Dom wanted me to rinse the dish washer after every use, and proceeded to show me how a few times, then watched closely a few times before trusting that I had learned how he wanted it done.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 11:48:03 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

However, performing them for your Dominant is an act of service which presumably the submissive wouldn't perform if they didn't want to.
Oh absolutely! I hate doing dishes, but I love doing them for Hanners. But I didn't need any training. Why would you need to train somebody to do what they like doing? Nor do I need a system of rewards. Her pleasure in my service is the reward. My pride in doing what is required of me the best I can is my reward.

I don't submit to Hanners for some reward, submitting to her is the reward, that she allows me to submit to her, that's the payoff. It's what I want to do, I get turned on by doing it. Yes, even taking out the garbage has an erotic thrill, because she assigned that particular household task to me, so it's a kick to do it. If you don't find yourself feeling the same way, that your Dominant's happiness is all the reward required, then perhaps you have the wrong Dominant, or perhaps you aren't really submissive in a 24/7 sense, or maybe I'm just really weird, I don't know.

I'm really not submissive.... reading stuff like this just highlights that fact.

I appreciate all the benefits that it brings ME ........but no, M's happiness really isn't a reward......it doesn't rest with me and I'd hate it if it did.

agirl

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 11:52:35 AM

HeatherMcLeather

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Looking at it that way, then yes, I suppose there is "training" but I prefer to see it as me learning, not her training. I think it is a more honest and accurate representation of what is happening. I think the word "training" is used primarily as a sop to the Dominant's ego. They don't like the idea of the poor little sub actively doing something on their own without the constant and wise guidance of the Dominant. What a crock!

Something I am discovering from the opinions expressed and stories related on these boards is that the Dominant themselves is, in most cases, an enormous impediment to the success of any relationship. And while I really hate to be sexist, I see this phenomenon mostly in male Dominants.

<Though, to be honest, this could just be because the really crappy Femdoms don't stick around here long, this place is very unforgiving of stupidity in a Domme, but tends to accept it quite readily from Doms.>

(in reply to RaspberryLemon)

RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 12:22:42 PM

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Traning for us is just me learning how to do things he likes, the same as I learn how to do a skill for my job. It's not any different and what I learn for him would probably never work for someone else if I was with them.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 12:32:39 PM

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I do use the term training, but probably not in the sense that it's being used here. Yes, I know. Everybody hates the analogy that I use for it because they don't like having a relationship compared to the working world, but that's exactly why I use it. Nobody starts a new job and calls learning that new job 'guidance' or any of those other terms. You train a new person working for you how to perform their duties.

Part of My submissive's role in My life is being in service to Me. That means as My submissive, there will be certain 'jobs' that he is required to do. Not everybody who is ever going to enter a dynamic with Me in My life is going to know about things like leather care or how to serve a high protocol dinner. I don't just announce that I expect him to do these things and then leave it up to his own devices to figure out how. I train him in the way I want it done.

However, in the same path, this isn't a service in exchange for sexual pleasures deal. It's not quid pro quo for orgasms. I happen to prefer folks who enjoy service for it's own sake.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 12:44:45 PM

Arpig

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Tazzy, littlewonder, LadyP. None of that is training in the sense used by the OP, It is effectively exactly what Heather calls her learning. I don't call it training, learning, guidance or teaching, I call it showing/telling them what I want. Oh well, semantics, different terms for the same thing.

But the sort of training the OP is talking about is a very different thing, and I don't do that either. I expect somebody who submits to me to do so. If I have to enforce their submission, then I don't want it.

If she is having trouble, then we'll talk it over, figure it out. Who knows, maybe I'm being unreasonable, maybe she has some deep seated issues she is running up against. Training or breaking her won't fix that, only push it aside. Communicating and working together will.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 12:45:05 PM

chastityslaveFE

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
...even taking out the garbage has an erotic thrill, because she assigned that particular household task to me, so it's a kick to do it.

It's great that you feel that, I do feel that way about a lot of ordinary things we do. My argument is that there is nothing wrong at all in intentionally creating that feeling in a submissive, towards a particular activity, and that to me is (one of) the purposes of training. I think many D/s couples do this unintentionally - kneeling, for example, is something I do in the vanilla word all the time, but done for my partner it's erotic because most occasions I have kneeled for him have involved some play or sexual activity or at the very least, an intense feeling of submission. It wasn't a conscious thought to make that association, but it's certainly an effective one, which now requires very little maintenance or effort on either part. Training is the process by which this happens, deciding to train is merely taking conscious control of that process.

chastity xxx

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 12:49:15 PM

Arpig

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quote:

Training is the process by which this happens

No it's not. It is an attempt to control that process to force the outcome you desire. If that's the way you want to run your relationship, then go for it, but personally, I don't.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 12:49:17 PM

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I guess the erotic thrill of cooking and cleaning has worn off for me lol. For me it's just part of being in a relationship..nothing more nothing less. It's just stuff that I have to do or has to be done to keep things running smoothly.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 12:54:55 PM

chastityslaveFE

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Tazzy, littlewonder, LadyP. None of that is training in the sense used by the OP, It is effectively exactly what Heather calls her learning. I don't call it training, learning, guidance or teaching, I call it showing/telling them what I want. Oh well, semantics, different terms for the same thing.

But the sort of training the OP is talking about is a very different thing, and I don't do that either. I expect somebody who submits to me to do so. If I have to enforce their submission, then I don't want it.

Arpig, with due respect, you are wrong here. I am talking about any kind of training. I gave example of an early form of training I had with one Owner, but I also made mention of other kinds of training, and non-sexual rewards (a word of praise or a hug for getting something right). I also stated 'praise and positive attention can be just as rewarding'.

To clarify, I am talking about training Vs explaining. A formal approach Vs a more 'requesting' approach. I am not talking about sexual training Vs non-sexual training. Nor am I talking about swapping sexual favours in return for obedience. I am merely saying that training a submissive to associate pleasure with a disliked activity (be it s&m, domestic, behavioural, other...) is an easy and effective way to change the submissive's opinion of the activity. The nature of that pleasure could be multi-fold - pleasure at being praised, pleasure at impressing her dominant, pleasure at being hugged or yes, sexual pleasure. I have also mentioned that it is not always necessary that the submissive enjoy the activity, sometimes it is only obedience which is required.

chastity xxx

(in reply to Arpig)

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