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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 1:21:17 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Tazzy, littlewonder, LadyP. None of that is training in the sense used by the OP, It is effectively exactly what Heather calls her learning. I don't call it training, learning, guidance or teaching, I call it showing/telling them what I want. Oh well, semantics, different terms for the same thing.

But the sort of training the OP is talking about is a very different thing, and I don't do that either. I expect somebody who submits to me to do so. If I have to enforce their submission, then I don't want it.

If she is having trouble, then we'll talk it over, figure it out. Who knows, maybe I'm being unreasonable, maybe she has some deep seated issues she is running up against. Training or breaking her won't fix that, only push it aside. Communicating and working together will.



I was responding to what Heather said.


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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 1:53:32 PM   
sexyred1


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I think it is semantics. I don't consider myself as having been "trained" in anything when I am in a relationship.

I have been doing this since I was a teenager and I believe that two people devoted to a relationship just naturally learn each other's preferences and idiosyncracies.

I know that some people find the concept of training to be very hot; and there are some people who believe that in order to be with them, particularly, they need to "retrain" someone.

To me, both parties learn what make each other tick, what works, what doesn't and I don't view that as training; since training connotes rewards vs. failure.

I never fail unless I am not communicated with effectively or if I choose to ignore what is in front of me. I don't need rewards to be the supportive, loving partner when I am inspired to be that. The relationship is the goal, not rewards.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 1:55:38 PM   
tazzygirl


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I dont find it hot... lol.. sometimes it cn be down right annoying to have to change how you do something youhave been doing for a long time.  I just view it as training as I would in a job.  I know how to wash a dish, I may have to change how I wash a dish to the specifications an employer demands.... thats training.  Same with a Dom.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 2:15:45 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Tazzy, littlewonder, LadyP. None of that is training in the sense used by the OP, It is effectively exactly what Heather calls her learning. I don't call it training, learning, guidance or teaching, I call it showing/telling them what I want. Oh well, semantics, different terms for the same thing.

But the sort of training the OP is talking about is a very different thing, and I don't do that either. I expect somebody who submits to me to do so. If I have to enforce their submission, then I don't want it.

If she is having trouble, then we'll talk it over, figure it out. Who knows, maybe I'm being unreasonable, maybe she has some deep seated issues she is running up against. Training or breaking her won't fix that, only push it aside. Communicating and working together will.


If you look at what I said, I did specify the difference.

Just your friendly neighborhood reminder that not all of D/s is based on romantic and/or sexual endeavors.  Service dynamics are still alive and well.


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(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 2:47:43 PM   
Arpig


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So you did, in the first sentence.

I was just trying to get the discussion back on the sort of training the OP was asking about, and since the bulk of your post was indeed discussing the other sort of training, I included you in the list of three people who had replied saying effectively the same thing.

quote:

Just your friendly neighborhood reminder that not all of D/s is based on romantic and/or sexual endeavors.  Service dynamics are still alive and well.
Absolutely true, but also in no way relevant to anything I said in relation to the questions posed in the OP. But thank you for the unnecessary reminder all the same.


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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 4:08:29 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

So you did, in the first sentence.

I was just trying to get the discussion back on the sort of training the OP was asking about, and since the bulk of your post was indeed discussing the other sort of training, I included you in the list of three people who had replied saying effectively the same thing.


I could be wrong about this, but I think it's part and parcel of the whole thing.  Hang with Me on this for a second.

It seems to Me from what I read is that one of the biggest issues that folks have when we start discussing "training" is that it's a term that usually gets used in some form regarding sex.  On one side or the other, there is going to be some form of sexual gratification, though it's usually from some guy who says that 'training' a gal means teaching her to <cough> submit <cough> to various sexual acts for his pleasure.  With Me so far?  If not, go back to any of the various decent discussion threads that we've had on training to see how quickly folks equate the term with that scenario.

This is the same thing, just in reverse.  Said training and completion of activity X gets rewarded with sexual pleasure. 


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 5:15:20 PM   
BonesFromAsh


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~sort of a fast reply ~

I've been thinking about this thread and the whole 'sex as a reward for completion of a task' thingy that the OP has mentioned and it reminded me of something funny.

I have a friend who has 2 dogs who are very well trained to go outside and do their business. Now, I've watched as this friend will let the dogs out and then, in a couple of minutes, go to the door and call for the hairy beasts to come back inside. One is very good and comes when called...good girl. The other...a rather stubborn male...will wait until my friend gets tired of calling for him and starts with the "come on, silly dog, come and get a cookie...at which point the "silly boy" will come trotting in and go right to the cupboard where the treats are kept.

Like a well-trained "master", my friend will give both dogs their goodies and life goes on....until the next time for them to do their business and the cycle repeats itself.

By offering the goodie everytime the "master" expects a simple chore to be done (in the dogs case, its business...in the OP's case, dishes) the dog/slave is doing a wonderful job of training the "master" to do what's needed for getting the job done.

Oh, the games we play...

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 5:25:29 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
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wait....you people get rewarded with sex for doing something for your Master/Mistress?

WTH?

Well hell......




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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 5:31:08 PM   
BonesFromAsh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

wait....you people get rewarded with sex for doing something for your Master/Mistress?

WTH?

Well hell......





Kind of makes you feel like the kid in school who didn't get the note that Monday was 'wear red and white day' and you show up in green coveralls and a purple t-shirt.

Would you like a dog treat? I can sneak one from my friend's treat cupboard.

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 6:42:36 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE

Fast Reply: Osidegirl & Decadent Desire. No doubt performing cleaning and other domestic duties for yourself is an unfortunate fact of life. However, performing them for your Dominant is an act of service which presumably the submissive wouldn't perform if they didn't want to. Therefore it is in the Dominant's interests to make it enjoyable for the submissive, since they are the ones who benefit from not having to do it. chastity xxx
Ummm...no I perform them because otherwise the house would be a mess. I live here and don't want to live a pig sty. It isn't "performed" for him. It's normal life. It's part of an adult.


To quote a famous race car driver: "I knew upfront that racing might be dangerous when they handed me the fire suit and the helmet." Bottom line: when I came into this relationship, we agreed that he would be the Dominant and I would be the submissive. That means that I understood at the beginning that there going to be times when I did things that I didn't want to because he desired it. It's part of being submissive. If you're only doing the things you like, then you're not really giving anything up, are you?



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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 7:12:21 PM   
Muttling


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I recently attended a play party with my Miss.   Her friends and she commented that I was well behaved/ well trained.

I have never been "trained", submission is just what I do and I take pride in the compliments that were given.  I would never disrespect my Miss and respecting my Miss is all I was doing, it's not something she trained me to do.....it just comes naturally and is something I enjoy doing.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 10:47:11 PM   
chastityslaveFE


Posts: 23
Joined: 5/23/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The concept of "trainers" is for the most part idiocy, primarily because who the fuck are they training them for? I have yet to license anyone to do training for me and I doubt any of you have either, lol.

However, "training" of partners occurs in every relationship and is done in both directions. Relationships are about training each other to work better together. A slave moans loudly when her owner does X, owner just got trained, even if it was to deny her X because he is a sadist. Slave goes to an ugly dark place when X is done, smart owner sees an opportunity to keep her emotionally safe and changes or stops doing X. These are crude examples but make the point.

I use orgasm training to sexualize acts I want to train someone to enjoy. I enjoy gagging my woman with my hands while I fuck her from behind. She is pretty orgasmic to start with and so I incorporate various things, including orgasm to train her to cum when I fuck her mouth with my hand with the ultimate goal of getting her to orgasm when I fuck her mouth with my cock.

More lofty relationship things work the same way. Training adults is more complicated than pets or children but the foundations are the same. You can explain things to an adult and if their mental framework can incorporate it, you can often get them to internalize those changes but few adults can internalize whatever their partner wants and that is where training comes in. Finding what sort of positive and negative reinforcements work is part of what seperates talented dominants from hacks and the more independant and self aware the adult is, the higher the corresponding skill needed to train them.


Seriously good answer, you explained it so well.  I don't have much to add but QFT

chastity xxx

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 10:54:54 PM   
chastityslaveFE


Posts: 23
Joined: 5/23/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

So you did, in the first sentence.

I was just trying to get the discussion back on the sort of training the OP was asking about, and since the bulk of your post was indeed discussing the other sort of training, I included you in the list of three people who had replied saying effectively the same thing.


I could be wrong about this, but I think it's part and parcel of the whole thing.  Hang with Me on this for a second.

It seems to Me from what I read is that one of the biggest issues that folks have when we start discussing "training" is that it's a term that usually gets used in some form regarding sex.  On one side or the other, there is going to be some form of sexual gratification, though it's usually from some guy who says that 'training' a gal means teaching her to <cough> submit <cough> to various sexual acts for his pleasure.  With Me so far?  If not, go back to any of the various decent discussion threads that we've had on training to see how quickly folks equate the term with that scenario.

This is the same thing, just in reverse.  Said training and completion of activity X gets rewarded with sexual pleasure. 



Lady Pact is exactly right.  Although I included sexual scenarios in my examples, I am not suggesting that all training is sexual or only sexual.  I have repeated this several times now, but to no avail.  I really am at a loss to understand why people on CollarMe have a view of training that is so narrow and limited, so that they literally cannot understand the whole concept.  BDSM 101 methinks!  I would never consider a relationship with someone who didn't understand the power of training and what it could do for our power exchange.  Thank God my Owner knows how to utilise it when necessary!

chastity xxx

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 11:06:20 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Its not that difficult a concept to grasp.  Most businesses have training classes.  A relationship doesnt have to be any different.  I think some are put off by the concept as it refers to animals... you train a dog to fetch... that sorta thing.  Others seem to think it requires a sexual connotation. 

Anyways, I have no issues with it.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to chastityslaveFE)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 11:11:12 PM   
chastityslaveFE


Posts: 23
Joined: 5/23/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE
No doubt performing cleaning and other domestic duties for yourself is an unfortunate fact of life. However, performing them for your Dominant is an act of service which presumably the submissive wouldn't perform if they didn't want to. Therefore it is in the Dominant's interests to make it enjoyable for the submissive, since they are the ones who benefit from not having to do it. chastity xxx

Ummm...no I perform them because otherwise the house would be a mess. I live here and don't want to live a pig sty. It isn't "performed" for him. It's normal life. It's part of an adult.


If it's part of being an adult, why doesn't your adult partner do it too?  Domestic service is NOT a normal part of m/f relationships, it is an act of inequality.  Perhaps you simply view it as the woman's role in life, but I do not, and it is not something I would ever accept in a vanilla relationships.  When I'm living with a man, he can pull his own weight - and if not, then he won't be living with me.  Simples! 

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
It's part of being submissive. If you're only doing the things you like, then you're not really giving anything up, are you?


Am I to believe that unless I submit to absolutely everything and anything my Owner desires then I am not really a submissive?  Last time I checked, submissives were allowed to have limits.  Luckily, my Owner values my submission and wants me to enjoy serving and submitting to him, which is why he is willing to work on this to make it more enjoyable for me.  Slaving away simply because you feel you have to or that you have no choice might work for you but it is not appealing to me.

chastity xxx

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 11:14:43 PM   
Endivius


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Every D/S has thier own arrangement that works or does not work based on how open they are to eachother's needs. If she/he needs to be disciplined/rewarded in order to do something that is not really submission, more of just a kink barter system that you have entered into. For me a sub/slave should WANT to do what I command. If she requires me to do something to get what I want then she hasnt really submitted to me, rather I to her. And that will not work for me. Each relationship is different though. And it can be more complicated in 24/7 or lifestyles in wich a D/S extends to outside the play room. Just remember that what works for you may be totally inadequate for someone else. As for the "training" part, or as like to think of it the building part, if you expect or are expected to do something by your partner but neither of you ever say anything how the fuck do either of you expect it to happen? Communication is the cornerstone of success in any relationship, followed by trust and respect.

You can be built to certain expectations to learn what the master needs/desires, how you behave after knowing those expectations is entirely on you as the sub/slave and your needs/desires.

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Basically if you can't inspire someone to trust you deeply, you aren't going to be able to buy that or a reasonable facsimile thereof. -DesFIP

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/24/2011 12:03:37 AM   
HeatherMcLeather


Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
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quote:

I would never consider a relationship with someone who didn't understand the power of training and what it could do for our power exchange.  Thank God my Owner knows how to utilise it when necessary!
And I would never consider a relationship with someone who didn't understand the power of actually wanting to submit and what it could do for our power exchange. Thank God my Owner knows how to utilise it when necessary!

(in reply to chastityslaveFE)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/24/2011 12:12:54 AM   
HeatherMcLeather


Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline
quote:

Am I to believe that unless I submit to absolutely everything and anything my Owner desires then I am not really a submissive?  Last time I checked, submissives were allowed to have limits. 
That's not what she said, you're being disingenuous and you know it.

You are clearly a one-true-wayer, and you have decided that many of our Dominants are sub-par, well they aren't. Some of these sub-par owners have been owning their women for years and somehow it works just fine for them. You need constant rewards and you need to enjoy everything you do. Fine You don't find simply submitting to be reward enough. Fine.

But this training you find essential for you to be able to submit isn't BDSM 101. Got that? You may need training to submit, but I don't, and there are a lot of others who don't either.

(in reply to chastityslaveFE)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/24/2011 12:21:43 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
This is turning too much into a "one twue way" thread.

Im out.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/24/2011 12:24:04 AM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
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quote:

I really am at a loss to understand why people on CollarMe have a view of training that is so narrow and limited, so that they literally cannot understand the whole concept.
and why is your view of it so fucking narrow and limited that you can't wrap your empty little head around the fact that some of us understand it, we just don't fucking need it. my girl doesn't need to be taught to enjoy doing shit for me, she already enjoys doing shit for me. yea, even the shit that isn't pleasant. i didn't have to train her to take it up the ass, i just put it up her ass. she doesn't like stuff up her ass, but she likes taking stuff up her ass for me. understand?
quote:

BDSM 101 methinks!
one true way 101 is more fucking like it.
quote:

I would never consider a relationship with someone who didn't understand the power of training and what it could do for our power exchange.  Thank God my Owner knows how to utilise it when necessary!
and i would never consider a relationship with someone who's submission was so fucking shallow that she needed to be rewarded every time she did what she was expected to do. thank fuck my girl isn't a do-me sub like that, thank fuck she actually submits.



_____________________________

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i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to chastityslaveFE)
Profile   Post #: 60
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