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RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 11:18:02 AM   
Fightdirecto


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I believe, though I may be wrong, that when a woman has a miscarriage, it happens after the moment of fertilization.

Ergo, under this proposed law in Mississippi that means she commits involuntary manslaughter if she has a miscarriage brought on by some action she might have taken (i.e. jogging, horseback riding or other strenuous physical activity).

How many months or years should she be put in prison for having committed involuntary manslaughter in Mississippi?

The most time that I was able to find through Internet research for involuntary manslaughter in Mississippi was 20 years, though that case of involuntary manslaughter involved a firearm.

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RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 11:34:18 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
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From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

It is inflamatory to compare this to Sharia, because sharia sanctions the beating and raping your wife. At least this is an attempt to protect life, it may be misguided, but good intentioned.
He's not comparing the content to the content of Sharia, he is making a point that laws based on fundamentalist Christian beliefs are no less abhorent than is Sharia law. He is using the word "Sharia" to point out the hypocrisy of fundies screaming and fretting about the threat of Koran-based law and how that would be counter to everything America stands for while at the same time trying to impose their own Bible-based law.

His point is that religiously based laws have no place in a secular nation regardless of which religion they are based on. A point I happen to agree with.


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RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 12:08:30 PM   
Masta808


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Damn straight, Christian morality dictates that Big Government needs to regulate our sex lives and must force women to give birth. After that your on your own. Have the damn baby then pull the plug after they are born because you cant afford to cover the cost of the baby. That is what freedom is all about, taking your own risk, this whole idea of taking care of everybody is flat out stupid. http://youtu.be/irx_QXsJiao

/s

< Message edited by Masta808 -- 9/14/2011 12:37:28 PM >

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RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 12:20:30 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tolovetolaugh

Don't worry Lucy, I have no delusions as to how realistic such an approach is, considering the controversy and as is stated human rights violations.
But if the pro-lifers can start a movement just as bloody unrealistic and composed of forcing their ideals on others, than dammit I get to keep my picture of what it takes to make an ideal world as well!

ETA : You have to admit, to those who argue education is the way- it's not working. My idea would work.


Honestly..Im so gad of your response, I apologise for just reacting and not thinking before responding, because in the past I haev on more than one occasion responded to dumb funny mentalists with the idea of sterilizing all male babies at birth, only to be unsterilized when they have passed a test proving they can be a fit and stable loving parent. Cut the sperm out of the equation and there will be no female getting pregnant on purpose, behind a mans back or contraception failing , breaking, forgotton, ignored, etc etc.

you should have seen the hate mail I got from males about it!!!
The problem is that THEY(THEM) funnymentalists are actually getting as far as legislation, not just pointing out the farce on a message board.




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RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 12:24:52 PM   
MileHighM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

It is inflamatory to compare this to Sharia, because sharia sanctions the beating and raping your wife. At least this is an attempt to protect life, it may be misguided, but good intentioned.
He's not comparing the content to the content of Sharia, he is making a point that laws based on fundamentalist Christian beliefs are no less abhorent than is Sharia law. He is using the word "Sharia" to point out the hypocrisy of fundies screaming and fretting about the threat of Koran-based law and how that would be counter to everything America stands for while at the same time trying to impose their own Bible-based law.

His point is that religiously based laws have no place in a secular nation regardless of which religion they are based on. A point I happen to agree with.



You are giving his intelligence way too much credit. If you had started the thread and explained it like that (and used a softer tone in the title), I would be in agreement. But this is FB, he ain't that deep. He purposely posts shit like this to be inflamitory. He wasn't making a subtle arguement in the context of starting a discussion about thumper hypocrisy. I think he is comparing to the content of Sharia too.

As far as religious law, read my posts, I don't disagree with you. I just hate the partisan hackery of saying these asinine hate statements that create such verbal bloodshed. And where I lump you in with the stupidity of FB, sanity, FD, LA, etc, is where you defend such childish tactics because of your own partisan hackery. He wasn't being deep, he was being an ass.

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RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 12:32:06 PM   
tolovetolaugh


Posts: 648
Joined: 4/30/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tolovetolaugh

Don't worry Lucy, I have no delusions as to how realistic such an approach is, considering the controversy and as is stated human rights violations.
But if the pro-lifers can start a movement just as bloody unrealistic and composed of forcing their ideals on others, than dammit I get to keep my picture of what it takes to make an ideal world as well!

ETA : You have to admit, to those who argue education is the way- it's not working. My idea would work.


Honestly..Im so gad of your response, I apologise for just reacting and not thinking before responding, because in the past I haev on more than one occasion responded to dumb funny mentalists with the idea of sterilizing all male babies at birth, only to be unsterilized when they have passed a test proving they can be a fit and stable loving parent. Cut the sperm out of the equation and there will be no female getting pregnant on purpose, behind a mans back or contraception failing , breaking, forgotton, ignored, etc etc.

you should have seen the hate mail I got from males about it!!!
The problem is that THEY(THEM) funnymentalists are actually getting as far as legislation, not just pointing out the farce on a message board.





I got no hate mail.

Ps. Let me attempt to be the first to tell you I love the new pic



_____________________________


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http://www.collarchat.com/m_3840531

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 12:33:26 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

I think he is comparing to the content of Sharia too.
You're entitled to your own opinion, however moronic it may be.

quote:

And where I lump you in with the stupidity of FB, sanity, FD, LA, etc, is where you defend such childish tactics because of your own partisan hackery.
I didn't defend anything, I merely explained what was happening to you as you had clearly missed it. See above about being moronic.

quote:

He wasn't being deep, he was being an ass.
I never mentioned a thing about being deep, I don't think there is anything deep about it, it is a rather facile comparison designed to illicit just the sort of reaction it did from you. And as far as the OP being an ass...well it's fargle isn't it?


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!


Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 12:40:07 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolovetolaugh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tolovetolaugh

Don't worry Lucy, I have no delusions as to how realistic such an approach is, considering the controversy and as is stated human rights violations.
But if the pro-lifers can start a movement just as bloody unrealistic and composed of forcing their ideals on others, than dammit I get to keep my picture of what it takes to make an ideal world as well!

ETA : You have to admit, to those who argue education is the way- it's not working. My idea would work.


Honestly..Im so gad of your response, I apologise for just reacting and not thinking before responding, because in the past I haev on more than one occasion responded to dumb funny mentalists with the idea of sterilizing all male babies at birth, only to be unsterilized when they have passed a test proving they can be a fit and stable loving parent. Cut the sperm out of the equation and there will be no female getting pregnant on purpose, behind a mans back or contraception failing , breaking, forgotton, ignored, etc etc.

you should have seen the hate mail I got from males about it!!!
The problem is that THEY(THEM) funnymentalists are actually getting as far as legislation, not just pointing out the farce on a message board.





I got no hate mail.

Ps. Let me attempt to be the first to tell you I love the new pic



Thankyou thankyou its actually from an old piece by Boris Vallejo, who is one of my favourite bum artists in the world.


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to tolovetolaugh)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 12:42:48 PM   
MileHighM


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Joined: 10/8/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

And where I lump you in with the stupidity of FB, sanity, FD, LA, etc, is where you defend such childish tactics because of your own partisan hackery.
I didn't defend anything, I merely explained what was happening to you as you had clearly missed it. See above about being moronic.



Keep telling yourself you were just setting the record straight. Sometimes you have to denounce those you agree with, I do to try and police the stupidity.

To quote myself:
quote:

At the end of the day, the SCOTUS can still execute it for you. So, take a toke and xanex and rub one out before you have a stroke.

(in reply to Arpig)
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RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 2:26:20 PM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

He is using the word "Sharia" to point out the hypocrisy of fundies screaming and fretting about the threat of Koran-based law and how that would be counter to everything America stands for while at the same time trying to impose their own Bible-based law.

Is there any basis in the Bible for the notion that "personhood" begins at conception?

K.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 4:05:50 PM   
tolovetolaugh


Posts: 648
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

He is using the word "Sharia" to point out the hypocrisy of fundies screaming and fretting about the threat of Koran-based law and how that would be counter to everything America stands for while at the same time trying to impose their own Bible-based law.

Is there any basis in the Bible for the notion that "personhood" begins at conception?

K.


From what I have seen, you can make the bible the basis for just about anything.


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That which yields, is not always weak. —
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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 4:10:40 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

And whenever the crazy religious fundamentalists try to impose their religious law on everyone else, I get concerned.

quote:


In Mississippi last week, the state Supreme Court rejected a lawsuit to stop a ballot measure (Amendment 26) defining a person as the moment of fertilization. The implications of the ballot measure are that abortion, contraception, in vitro fertilization, and stem cell research could be rendered illegal if the initiative passes. Mississippi’s highest court ruled 7-2 against stopping the initiative and said it did not have the power to review ballot initiatives before the vote takes place. However, in refusing to stop the ballot measure, the court revealed that it will uphold the proposed constitutional amendment when it passes. There is little doubt the ballot initiative will pass because Mississippi has the largest percentage (82%) of Christians in the country. Not surprising is that of 9 justices, 7 profess Christianity as their religion on the MSS official website.


http://www.politicususa.com/en/personhood-democracy



what a bunch of fucking retards we have in this country.

I guess that gubafia dick up their ass just aint big enough for some people.


Office of the Person   The official state office known as "Person" This is the single most important lesson that you MUST learn. If you spend an hour to learn this material you will be rewarded for the rest of your life. The word "person" in legal terminology is perceived as a general word which normally includes in its scope a variety of entities other than human beings. See e.g. 1 U.S.C. sec 1. Church of Scientology v. U.S. Dept. of Justice (1979) 612 F.2d 417, 425. One of the very first of your state statutes will have a section listed entitled "Definitions." Carefully study this section of the statutes and you will find a portion that reads similar to this excerpt: In construing these statutes and each and every word, phrase, or part hereof, where the context will permit: (1) The singular includes the plural and vice versa. (2) Gender-specific language includes the other gender and neuter. (3) The word "person" includes individuals, children, firms, associations, joint adventures, partnerships, estates, trusts, business trusts, syndicates, fiduciaries, corporations, and all other groups or combinations. NOTE HOWEVER, THE DEFINITIONS STATUTE DOES NOT LIST “MAN” OR “WOMAN” – THEREFORE THEY ARE EXCLUDED FROM ALL THE LEGISLATIVE STATUTES!!! Under the rule of construction "expressio unius est exclusio alterius," where a statute or Constitution enumerates the things on which it is to operate or forbids certain things, it is ordinarily to be construed as excluding from its operation all those not expressly mentioned. Generally, words in a statute should be given their plain and ordinary meaning. When a statute does not specifically define words, such words should be construed in their common or ordinary sense to the effect that the rules used in construing statutes are also applicable in the construction of the Constitution. It is a fundamental rule of statutory construction that words of common usage when used in a statute should be construed in their plain and ordinary sense. If you carefully read the statute laws enacted by your state legislature you will also notice that they are all written with phrases similar to these five examples : 1. A person commits the offense of failure to carry a license if the person . . . 2. A person commits the offense of failure to register a vehicle if the person . . . 3. A person commits the offense of driving uninsured if the person . . . 4. A person commits the offense of fishing if the person . . . 5. A person commits the offense of breathing if the person . . . Notice that only "persons" can commit these state legislature created crimes. A crime is by definition an offense committed against the "state." If you commit an offense against a human, it is called a tort. Examples of torts would be any personal injury, slander, or defamation of character. So how does someone become a "person" and subject to regulation by state statutes and laws ? There is only one way. You must ask the state for permission to volunteer to become a state person. You must volunteer because the U.S. Constitution forbids the state from compelling you into slavery. This is found in the 13th and 14th Amendments. 13th Amendment Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. 14th Amendment Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law, nor deny any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. You become a state created statutory "person" by taking up residency with the state and stepping into the office of "person." You must hold an "office" within the state government in order for that state government to regulate and control you. First comes the legislatively created office, then comes their control. If you do not have an office in state government, the legislature's control over you would also be prohibited by the Declaration of Rights section, usually found to be either Section I or II, of the State Constitution. The most common office held in a state is therefore the office known as "person." Your state legislature created this office as a way to control people. It is an office most people occupy without even knowing that they are doing so. The legislature cannot lawfully control you because you are a flesh and blood human being. God alone created you and by Right of creation, He alone can control you. It is the nature of law, that what one creates, one controls. This natural law is the force that binds a creature to its creator. God created us and we are, therefore, subject to His laws, whether or not we acknowledge Him as our Creator. The way the state gets around God's law and thereby controls the people is by creating only an office, and not a real human. This office is titled as "person" and then the legislature claims that you are filling that office. Legislators erroneously now think that they can make laws that also control men. They create entire bodies of laws - motor vehicle code, building code, compulsory education laws, and so on ad nauseum. They still cannot control men or women, but they can now control the office they created. And look who is sitting in that office -- YOU. Then they create government departments to administer regulations to these offices. Within these administrative departments of state government are hundreds of other state created offices. There is everything from the office of janitor to the office of governor. But these administrative departments cannot function properly unless they have subjects to regulate. 

the word person is a legal term in contemplation of law.  unfortunately once contracted you lose the ability to go back and are forever a subject.

that is in direct violation of the 1st amendment.

what is said up there is true and anyone who has ever been to court and remembers what the judge said to them will now realize they were being set up to be fleeced.

If that passes it is signing all your rights over control of the child to the state.

This is truly a country of fucking retards..


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 9/14/2011 4:16:33 PM >


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Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 4:15:22 PM   
tolovetolaugh


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Attack of the wall of text!!!
Could you please space it out a bit?


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 4:20:54 PM   
Real0ne


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that is just the first page of several.  it goes into shit loads of case law etc, if its too much just read the highlighted and blue that should giver everyone the jist of it.

It never ceases to amaze me though how fucking ignorant people are now days when it comes to law.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tolovetolaugh)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 5:41:04 PM   
outhere69


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It never ceases to amaze me how you link all your causes to 1) corporations, 2) the queen of England, or 3) perfidious Jews.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 5:50:38 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: outhere69

It never ceases to amaze me how you link all your causes to 1) corporations, 2) the queen of England, or 3) perfidious Jews.


what jews?

yeh well if you care to get into the origins of the law in the colony granted statehood in 1783 by the king you would not only see by agree.

Few are willing to put in that kind of work however.  and it is a lot of work.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to outhere69)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 6:15:42 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

(3) The word "person" includes individuals, children, firms, associations, joint adventures, partnerships, estates, trusts, business trusts, syndicates, fiduciaries, corporations, and all other groups or combinations. NOTE HOWEVER, THE DEFINITIONS STATUTE DOES NOT LIST “MAN” OR “WOMAN” – THEREFORE THEY ARE EXCLUDED FROM ALL THE LEGISLATIVE STATUTES!!!

Gee, I could have sworn that men and women were "individuals."

K.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/14/2011 6:24:34 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
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From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolovetolaugh

From what I have seen, you can make the bible the basis for just about anything.

Damn near, but not quite.

K.

(in reply to tolovetolaugh)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/15/2011 2:17:09 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

Is there any basis in the Bible for the notion that "personhood" begins at conception?
Not that I am aware of, but the anti-abortion fundamentalist Christians seem to think there is.

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Ha Ha...Charade you are!


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia... - 9/15/2011 2:18:41 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

Keep telling yourself you were just setting the record straight. Sometimes you have to denounce those you agree with, I do to try and police the stupidity.
And let me quote myself:

quote:

You're entitled to your own opinion, however moronic it may be.



_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!


Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to MileHighM)
Profile   Post #: 40
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