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The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 8:01:45 PM

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From: Tamaris
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I have been wondering recently at what the purpose of art is, especially when I view so much art that seems to warn of problems that are set to or are rising in our midst. For example, the movie industry, entertainment though it is to most, the themes that some movies even blockbusters dwell on seem to be almost a warning in many respects. The book 1984 by George Orwell is being discussed in another thread on this forum and how the concepts in the book are becoming very real in our modern society. There are many other examples of would be entertainment instilling provoking thoughts, but the question is, is entertainment a vehicle for sublime public education ?

Now it has always been those who dwell in the arts have been, 'alternative thinking', and often art institutions have been a hotbed of political activity, much of which is anti establishment, but those students that are put down by society as being nothing more than young people with a beef against the world or inspired by alternative literature, ( insert; socialist, pinko, lefty, communist and a whole host of other seemingly social pariah terms) when it is they act against those they have anger against often go on to become artists operating in the arts industry. Do these 'political activists' grow up when it is they reach the real world, or do they carry on with their beliefs, I suspect the latter and entertainment is the proof.

But what is the real purpose of art, entertainment or education ?

Of artists, with their often alternative even subversive thought process, are they a help to society or a hindrance ?

Does anyone else learn from art, or is it just entertainment ?

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 8:05:55 PM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

But what is the real purpose of art, entertainment or education ?

To bring people closer to the Platonic form of the human condition.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 8:57:33 PM

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From: Dirty Jersey
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Most art isn`t political.

Most of the songs written are love songs.

I don`t get the 1984 reference.

Where exactly,specifically, are 1984-like scenarios being played out today?

I think the 1984 paranoids are worse than anything we`ve seen relating to 1984.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/14/2011 8:58:21 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 9:18:09 PM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Where exactly,specifically, are 1984-like scenarios being played out today?

1984

Telescreens are everywhere (except for where the Proles live and work).

Workplace monitoring—Winston can't look at a note on his desk or dwell too long on a single document.

Thought Police interpret people's facial expressions and voice intonations.

Spies—one never knows whom to trust.

Today

FBI surveillance

Corporations collecting data on consumers

Internet privacy issues

Drug testing at the workplace or school

Employers monitoring employees' e-mails, phone calls, or bathroom usage

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 9:26:56 PM

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From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Most art isn`t political.

Most of the songs written are love songs.

I don`t get the 1984 reference.

Where exactly,specifically, are 1984-like scenarios being played out today?

I think the 1984 paranoids are worse than anything we`ve seen relating to 1984.

That all depends on what music you listen to......., what you find melodious, or appealing to your psyche.

As to the the 1984 scenarios being played out today, Aylee has some grasp of that, and here in the UK, we have the majority of the world's CCTV cameras in our streets, we are being watched all the time.

Ever been in the situation of being followed by cctv cameras, them swinging in your direction as you move around, cool if you are doing no harm, but in what the operators are doing, they are implying you are a potential problem, so must be watched, or else why do it, boredom ?

But of our cctv cameras, they didn't stop the riots starting a few months ago, so they are not for crime prevention as we are told.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 9:42:43 PM

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Maybe read the book, O59? The link is right there on the thread, to do it for free.

Aneirin, I make no claim to knowing art, or art history, or art anything, but I love color, and whimsy, and social statements captured in an image. I love the collection of awful things we have bid a dollar for at a charity auction, and the crappy softwood carvings we pick up for $10 or less on vacations. They make me smile. I love the odd little pieces I can't leave a good street market without. What function can a 10 inch long mosquito made from an old tool handle and some scrap wire possibly have? Yet merely sitting on a boulder in my backyard, the space is altered by its presence.

Entertainment just seems like such a tiny word, to describe something so large and powerful.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 9:47:25 PM

dovie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Maybe read the book, O59? The link is right there on the thread, to do it for free.

What you talking bout Willis? What book and where is it on what thread?

_____________________________

"Sometimes love is a nice long lick!"

gentle dove with 38's *the kind you shoot with*

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 9:48:14 PM

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If a community wants red-light cameras,it`s their right to have them.If they don`t,they have the right not to have them.

That`s not 1984 stuff.That`s free choice.The opposite if things 1984.

The only people who need to worry about red-light cameras are dangerous drivers.And I`d drown them all with my own hands, given the chance.They are not a sympathetic lot.

As for the UK,I would be more affraid of politicians/police helping news organizations spy on private citizens then of the police watching surveillance cameras on street corners.

I usually don`t buy slippery-slope arguments so save that if you were thinking about making one.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/14/2011 9:49:38 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 10:02:04 PM

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Where exactly,specifically, are 1984-like scenarios being played out today?

1984

Telescreens are everywhere (except for where the Proles live and work).

Workplace monitoring—Winston can't look at a note on his desk or dwell too long on a single document.

Thought Police interpret people's facial expressions and voice intonations.

Spies—one never knows whom to trust.

Today

FBI surveillance

Law enforcement.

Corporations collecting data on consumers

Capitalism,free enterprise.

Internet privacy issues

Don`t go online.

Drug testing at the workplace or school

Don`t take illegal drugs or do what rich did and get a script.May require moving to Cali but the weed`s good there(I heard that, ;-) )

Employers monitoring employees' e-mails, phone calls, or bathroom usage

Get another job.

It`s an employers right to know if you`re perving porn,playing card games or wasting time on their payroll.

Would you allow your employees to waste your money and man-hours?

That`s capitalism.

Get over it.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/14/2011 10:05:23 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Aylee)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 10:03:37 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

If a community wants red-light cameras,it`s their right to have them.If they don`t,they have the right not to have them.

That`s not 1984 stuff.That`s free choice.The opposite if things 1984.

The only people who need to worry about red-light cameras are dangerous drivers.And I`d drown them all with my own hands, given the chance.They are not a sympathetic lot.

As for the UK,I would be more affraid of politicians/police helping news organizations spy on private citizens then of the police watching surveillance cameras on street corners.

I usually don`t buy slippery-slope arguments so save that if you were thinking about making one.

and its my right to charge 5000 bucks per image use charge for anyone who takes a picture of me without my written consent.

they see me comin they better delete the shit.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 10:06:31 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Where exactly,specifically, are 1984-like scenarios being played out today?

1984

Telescreens are everywhere (except for where the Proles live and work).

Workplace monitoring—Winston can't look at a note on his desk or dwell too long on a single document.

Thought Police interpret people's facial expressions and voice intonations.

Spies—one never knows whom to trust.

Today

FBI surveillance

Law enforcement.

Corporations collecting data on consumers

Capitalism,free enterprise.

Internet privacy issues

Don`t go online.

Drug testing at the workplace or school

Don`t take illegal drugs or do what rich did and get a script.May require moving to Cali but the weed`s good there(I heard that, ;-) )

Employers monitoring employees' e-mails, phone calls, or bathroom usage

Get another job.

It`s an employers right to know if your perving porn,playing card games or wasting time.

Would you allow your employees to waste your money and man-hours?

That`s capitalism.Get over it.

Like I said everything has a price.

YO ucan collect information if you want to pay the price for etc etc etc.

YOu sound like another pronoia like jlf

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 10:10:48 PM

Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I have been wondering recently at what the purpose of art is, especially when I view so much art that seems to warn of problems that are set to or are rising in our midst. For example, the movie industry, entertainment though it is to most, the themes that some movies even blockbusters dwell on seem to be almost a warning in many respects. The book 1984 by George Orwell is being discussed in another thread on this forum and how the concepts in the book are becoming very real in our modern society. There are many other examples of would be entertainment instilling provoking thoughts, but the question is, is entertainment a vehicle for sublime public education ?

I wouldn't view the commercial movie industry as art. Independent films possibly, but, generally, movies with big budgets are not art and hence not a vehicle for public education.

_____________________________

ExiledTyrant's groupie. Catering to his ego since May 26, 2007. :D

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 10:11:40 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I have been wondering recently at what the purpose of art is, especially when I view so much art that seems to warn of problems that are set to or are rising in our midst. For example, the movie industry, entertainment though it is to most, the themes that some movies even blockbusters dwell on seem to be almost a warning in many respects. The book 1984 by George Orwell is being discussed in another thread on this forum and how the concepts in the book are becoming very real in our modern society. There are many other examples of would be entertainment instilling provoking thoughts, but the question is, is entertainment a vehicle for sublime public education ?

Now it has always been those who dwell in the arts have been, 'alternative thinking', and often art institutions have been a hotbed of political activity, much of which is anti establishment, but those students that are put down by society as being nothing more than young people with a beef against the world or inspired by alternative literature, ( insert; socialist, pinko, lefty, communist and a whole host of other seemingly social pariah terms) when it is they act against those they have anger against often go on to become artists operating in the arts industry. Do these 'political activists' grow up when it is they reach the real world, or do they carry on with their beliefs, I suspect the latter and entertainment is the proof.

But what is the real purpose of art, entertainment or education ?

Of artists, with their often alternative even subversive thought process, are they a help to society or a hindrance ?

Does anyone else learn from art, or is it just entertainment ?

its because they cannot say it "out loud".

they say it in art, movies etc.

Matrix comes to mind for the present political climate.

yesterdays big issue was the TIN man, and the STRAWMAN and the wicked witch.

they always spill the beans in the movies if you know what they are referencing.

Matrix was dead on, gibson in conspiracy theory, 1600, lots of fairchilds movies cut to the bone too.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 10:55:30 PM

HeatherMcLeather

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Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
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quote:

But what is the real purpose of art, entertainment or education ?

Self education, but I'm pretty much in agreement with Hanners on this one <surprise, surprise>, so I'll just quote her.

quote:

what message you take away from them teaches you something about yourself

quote:

it's an exercise in self awareness

quote:

its your reaction to the movie or book that teaches you about yourself. by analyzing the message you get out of it you gain insight into yourself. why did it make me feel that way? why does it mean that to me? that sort of shit.

quote:

it's the reaction that matters. that's the point of art.

All taken from this thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_3800499/mpage_1/tm.htm

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 11:21:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I have been wondering recently at what the purpose of art is, especially when I view so much art that seems to warn of problems that are set to or are rising in our midst. For example, the movie industry, entertainment though it is to most, the themes that some movies even blockbusters dwell on seem to be almost a warning in many respects. The book 1984 by George Orwell is being discussed in another thread on this forum and how the concepts in the book are becoming very real in our modern society. There are many other examples of would be entertainment instilling provoking thoughts, but the question is, is entertainment a vehicle for sublime public education ?

I wouldn't view the commercial movie industry as art. Independent films possibly, but, generally, movies with big budgets are not art and hence not a vehicle for public education.

Couldn`t agree more,especially with our huge appitite for voilence,gore and blood.But that`s what sells.

Films aimed at younger audiences can be educational and good.They can also be pretty stupid and obnoxious.

With all the marketing and product tie-ins,it`s hardly art for art`s sake.

Every once in a while though,a film does rise to the level of art.But rarely.

Besides love songs,faith and religion accounts for a lot of music.That doesn`t include the devil`s own music,Christian-rock.It`s awful and not art,for the most part.

Are the preforming arts political?Yes, sometimes but there has to be more than just that or it`s off off off off off off off-Broadway for you.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to DeviantlyD)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 11:31:46 PM

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"Matrix comes to mind for the present political climate. "

MOTHERFUCKER YOU NEVER EVER MENTION THE MATRIX. EVER.

If you do not understand why I have nothing to say, it would be a waste of time.

T^T

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/14/2011 11:33:03 PM

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Art doesn't have a purpose. That's very much the point. If it has a purpose, it isn't art, it's craft. Art exists as an expression of the creator (or, if some are to be believed, the Creator) and nothing more. Our experience of it is extraneous. Important to us, no doubt, and to society perhaps as well, but to the concept of art it is irrelevant.

That being said, it does serve a purpose in much the same way a horse does - that is to say, it is excellent at certain things, even though those things are not the point of its existence. If you read my comments in the thread Heather linked I touch on that in some detail, but to summarize it serves to illuminate the human condition, the mind of the artist, and the mind of the person experiencing it in a way nothing else can.

As to growing up, I would say they less grow out of their ideas and more grow out of the habit of talking about them. I think people grow weary and embittered as time goes on and even though they still believe radical and interesting things they push them to the back of their mind and just go with the flow. Not everyone, of course, but most of those you think of as 'normal.' Art gives them an outlet for those impulses they repress in every day life, which is why you will somehow see a bunch of brainless suits produce a brilliant allegory once in a while when you were expecting a cookie-cutter action flick.

EDIT: Fucking apostrophes, how do they work?

< Message edited by Epytropos -- 9/14/2011 11:34:17 PM >

_____________________________

They're only words. Don't dwell on them. They never mean what you think.

I speak only of My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 12:33:29 AM

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I was doing a new roof this week.During a break,the owner showed me some of his paintings.

He was good.Used light well and colors too.Had a lot of finished work and many things in the works.

One painting he did was for his realitor,a small painting of grilling cheese burgers and other things sizziling on the flames, with a dog to one side,staring at the food with his ears all up and curious.

It was cute and simple and fun and made you think of happy moments.

He got the idea when he learned the realitor loved grilling and had a dog.

Nothing more than that to work with.

It was to be a gift for working hard and getting a great deal on the house.

That was art,IMO.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Epytropos)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 12:45:15 AM

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I think this explains what I feel the purpose of art is:

When you are inspired by some great purpose, some extraordinary project, all your thoughts break their bonds; your mind transcends limitations, your consciousness expands in every direction, and you find yourself in a new, great and wonderful world. Dormant forces, faculties and talents become alive, and you discover yourself to be a greater person by far than you ever dreamed yourself to be. (Patanjali)

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 1:29:39 AM

Arpig

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quote:

Art doesn't have a purpose.

I agree, it exists merely to exist.

Art for art's sake

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