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Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying."


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Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/18/2011 11:30:29 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
A fairly half baked concept, but one I hope will spawn some discussion.

I'm a sensual sadist who only plays with consenting partners. However, I would say that "hardcore masochists" are not at the top of my list as ideal partners, but only because my enjoyment is often centered on the premise that the man is suffering for my pleasure, not clouded by too much - for lack of a better term - self indulgence.

People sometimes dismiss the term "roleplaying" because it seems like they think it cheapens their BDSM experience or means they are just "playing" at a role. But if I dominate a masochist on any level, I expect and desire him to contribute to my enjoyment - as a sadist - by understanding and grasping the important of roleplaying. Essentially he has to convince me that his suffering is authentic and for me, despite how much he's loving it, turned on by it, and may even be enjoying it more than me.

By roleplaying, he's not "faking" anything. His pain is real and his suffering is real. But what I am asking him to do is experience those sensations through a different emotional filter. I can help him with this by creating my own emotional filter - essentially, I am roleplaying also. I am a cruel, heartless, mean, sadistic bitch who absolutely delights in seeing him suffer for me. So yeah, I am "pretending" to be an unforgiving sadist, and he's "pretending" to be an unwilling victim. To many, this is mere roleplaying and not authentic.

I was watching a movie recently, "Buried." It's a movie with Ryan Reynolds buried alive by kidnappers and the entire movie was filmed with him in a coffin. I was fascinated and aroused with some of the visuals and desperation (only because I knew it was fake, I would not feel that way for a real person in that situation), but more importantly, I get fascinated with how a man connects with that level of helplessness and does it authentically. He knows he's safe, but to be an actor, he has to emotionally achieve a level of authentic fear. In an interview with the actor, he shared a couple of tactics:

He did not rehearse at all, but started with the filming so he'd be unfamiliar and it would be terrifying. They filmed it chronologically, so the desperation could build. And they built the various coffins strong enough so that his struggling could be absolutely real - he didn't pretend to try to get out, he actually did, causing a variety of minor self injuries in the process.

This concept is fascinating to me; I relate this to what I want from a man - masochist or not - when he submits to me. We both know he wants it, and we both know he is aroused by it (just like Ryan Reynolds knows he's not dying in a box). But for me to get the highest level of arousal and pleasure, I need him to emotionally endure what is designed as a fake reality, but his emotions are real and his suffering is real, just as my cruelty is real and my sadism is real.

When a masochist only takes it to the level of, "Wow Mistress that's hot, keep hitting me, oh yeah that's awesome!" or even just accepts it in stoic, self involved silence, or worse, just drips in self indulgence and makes me feel objectified, I can't get what I need. All it requires though is a commitment from him to reach that place emotionally, and it's not just "roleplaying," It's something entirely different.

Do any other sadists relate to this -- or mashocists see it from the other side, needing that suspension of disbelief, almost, from their sadistic partner?

Akasha

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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/18/2011 11:57:32 PM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		Really interesting question!

I am a masochist. However for me, pain hurts. Really hurts. I can take a lot, and I get turned on from it almost as a side-effect. But it still hurts.

Now, there is one Dom I used to bottom to who would spend hours hurting me in ways that I actually enjoyed with the ultimate aim of subspace. With that guy it was pretty much role play. He would ask me how much it hurt, and I would beg for it to stop, even though that was the last thing I wanted.

Fast forward to today, and I have a sadistic Master. He loves to hurt me. He wants to make me cry and beg. Nothing turns him on more to see me brought to my knees with pain. Then we have the most amazing sex. I mean, totally brain-busting multi-orgasmic sex (for me, anyway lol).

Both experiences thrill me as a masochist. However the first always seems to be a pale imitation of the second. I get my jollies, but the level of intensity is strikingly different.

I guess what I'm rambling on about here is that roleplay is fun and pleasurable and is something I wouldn't hesitate to do again in the future, but I'd rather have the 'real thing'

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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/19/2011 1:42:27 AM   
Endivius


Posts: 1238
Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline 		The girls do not play a role whereby they pretend the pain is real, or the suffering. They know wholeheartedly that thier suffering brings me pleasure. I get my arousal from seeing them endure the pain. Because they trust me, they do whatever I want, and that is what turns me on. The commitment to suffer, the suffering, and the submission.

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Basically if you can't inspire someone to trust you deeply, you aren't going to be able to buy that or a reasonable facsimile thereof. -DesFIP

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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/19/2011 4:38:31 AM   
lthrpup


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline 		Interesting, as always, Aakasha.

My natural inclination would be stoicism, but I realize that neither provides the feedback needed to orchestrate the domination nor the reactions that would entertain the dominant. To get good at providing the kind of responses you describe would require some practice and experience on the part of any stoic guys lucky enough to fall into your web. It may take a few encounters before they act naturally, but ultimately, their performance will be sincere rather than play acting. In the meantime, guidance, coaching and manipulation - essentially, training - may be necessary to bring out the desired reactions.

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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/19/2011 4:52:41 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		He gets my full, unfiltered emotions.
If he does something that makes me cry, I cry.
If he does something that strikes me as funny, I laugh. Etc.
I suck as an actress.

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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/19/2011 8:08:27 AM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		Role-playing? You bet! It's not that the direct situation of pain or bondage changes, but the context in which they see it. If they can truely envision themselves in a 'hopeless' situation, it intensifies and breaks past the 'stoic' syndrom a lot more quickly, because the intensity of emotions increases drastically if they can suspend disbelief.

I've experienced it from the bottom and the top, and in no way would I call it 'faking it' or dishonest. It's a psychological game to add to the physical one that complicates the scene even further. If you can briefly put yourself in a situation where you know you're not going to sit down and have coffee and a chat with the other person in a couple hours, it becomes a different situation mentally and emotionally. I always like to try and unravel reality a bit with such role playing games, trying to rattle their faith in the 'security' they have. But at the same time this is not an activity to engage in with someone who is not aware of it and does not enjoy it. It can be injure a relationship of trust if done unwillingly to someone.

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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/19/2011 8:43:41 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		I dunno, I'm not really a sadist, but if you can't get to them physically, you have to expand your repertoire, and find something that really get's their attention.

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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/19/2011 4:51:03 PM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline 		once you have got their attention, what do you do next time? Take it a little further? and what about the time after that?

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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/19/2011 6:09:17 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


A fairly half baked concept, but one I hope will spawn some discussion.

I'm a sensual sadist who only plays with consenting partners. However, I would say that "hardcore masochists" are not at the top of my list as ideal partners, but only because my enjoyment is often centered on the premise that the man is suffering for my pleasure, not clouded by too much - for lack of a better term - self indulgence.

People sometimes dismiss the term "roleplaying" because it seems like they think it cheapens their BDSM experience or means they are just "playing" at a role. But if I dominate a masochist on any level, I expect and desire him to contribute to my enjoyment - as a sadist - by understanding and grasping the important of roleplaying. Essentially he has to convince me that his suffering is authentic and for me, despite how much he's loving it, turned on by it, and may even be enjoying it more than me.

By roleplaying, he's not "faking" anything. His pain is real and his suffering is real. But what I am asking him to do is experience those sensations through a different emotional filter. I can help him with this by creating my own emotional filter - essentially, I am roleplaying also. I am a cruel, heartless, mean, sadistic bitch who absolutely delights in seeing him suffer for me. So yeah, I am "pretending" to be an unforgiving sadist, and he's "pretending" to be an unwilling victim. To many, this is mere roleplaying and not authentic.

I was watching a movie recently, "Buried." It's a movie with Ryan Reynolds buried alive by kidnappers and the entire movie was filmed with him in a coffin. I was fascinated and aroused with some of the visuals and desperation (only because I knew it was fake, I would not feel that way for a real person in that situation), but more importantly, I get fascinated with how a man connects with that level of helplessness and does it authentically. He knows he's safe, but to be an actor, he has to emotionally achieve a level of authentic fear. In an interview with the actor, he shared a couple of tactics:

He did not rehearse at all, but started with the filming so he'd be unfamiliar and it would be terrifying. They filmed it chronologically, so the desperation could build. And they built the various coffins strong enough so that his struggling could be absolutely real - he didn't pretend to try to get out, he actually did, causing a variety of minor self injuries in the process.

This concept is fascinating to me; I relate this to what I want from a man - masochist or not - when he submits to me. We both know he wants it, and we both know he is aroused by it (just like Ryan Reynolds knows he's not dying in a box). But for me to get the highest level of arousal and pleasure, I need him to emotionally endure what is designed as a fake reality, but his emotions are real and his suffering is real, just as my cruelty is real and my sadism is real.

When a masochist only takes it to the level of, "Wow Mistress that's hot, keep hitting me, oh yeah that's awesome!" or even just accepts it in stoic, self involved silence, or worse, just drips in self indulgence and makes me feel objectified, I can't get what I need. All it requires though is a commitment from him to reach that place emotionally, and it's not just "roleplaying," It's something entirely different.

Do any other sadists relate to this -- or mashocists see it from the other side, needing that suspension of disbelief, almost, from their sadistic partner?

Akasha



I get this 100% I have found the last few years that yes I harber a tiny little sadist within me and for me it isn't so much about inflicting the pain as it is about the REACTION to the pain. If the person is enjoying it then I am not. However, even if they mearly PRETEND to be suffering-I like to hear begging and pleading even if it is insincere... well yeah I think you get it.



MS- with the tiny little sadist inside

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/19/2011 6:51:19 PM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave



I get this 100% I have found the last few years that yes I harber a tiny little sadist within me and for me it isn't so much about inflicting the pain as it is about the REACTION to the pain. If the person is enjoying it then I am not. However, even if they mearly PRETEND to be suffering-I like to hear begging and pleading even if it is insincere... well yeah I think you get it.



MS- with the tiny little sadist inside



You like the !

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/19/2011 9:32:09 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds


quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave



I get this 100% I have found the last few years that yes I harber a tiny little sadist within me and for me it isn't so much about inflicting the pain as it is about the REACTION to the pain. If the person is enjoying it then I am not. However, even if they mearly PRETEND to be suffering-I like to hear begging and pleading even if it is insincere... well yeah I think you get it.



MS- with the tiny little sadist inside



You like the !



LOL yes I like to poke with a stik but I generally prefer more of a reation than that blue smiley is giving...


MS-who is now in search of a stick

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to ProlificNeeds)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/19/2011 11:20:42 PM   
Epytropos


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline 		When I was new I was very into the whole "act like you know I want you to" thing. I think back then it was more of a game for me, more a way to get off than anything. We weren't into anything where she was likely to get hurt so it didn't much matter whether her reactions were genuine. At this stage sadism for me is closer to a form of expression, like theater. I do it not just to get myself off but because I can play with the other person's emotions and movements and vocalizations. To do that I need complete presence, not well-done method acting.Of course, this means when I fuck things up there's occasionally derisive laughter, but honesty always comes with a price


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I speak only of My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/20/2011 7:47:00 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

once you have got their attention, what do you do next time? Take it a little further? and what about the time after that?
Why then you communicate your expectations - I'm talking about getting into their heads, if you're preoccupied with yourself and your needs, chances are good they're gonna get your number before you get theirs.

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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/20/2011 10:49:17 PM   
seekingreality


Posts: 599
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline 		I find it's all over the board. Some dommes like a stoic non-complaing sub. Others like you to wince, express fear, and show reactions, whether it's genuine or not.

In my experience, anyone can adapt themselves to another's likes for a short time, but ultimately you have to be in genuine sync or one person will get bored and leave the relationship. I find that's a main reason many BDSM relationships are so short lived. They don't start from a place of mutual liking or respect, but kink. Which is fine, but there is a high level of kink incapability, especially if one person (or both) is very rigid or narrow on what arouses them.

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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/21/2011 5:03:05 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6674
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Sorry. I abhor roleplay.
I like/need/want/desire real pain, real screams, real suffering.
I like watching her legs quiver as she tries to stay standing despite the pain. I like watching her crumple when the strap strikes. I like listening to her make that mewling sound deep in the back of her throat. And I love the way she lights up when I tell her how proud I am of her for taking it.


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HST

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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/21/2011 11:47:06 PM   
LPslittleclip


Posts: 1163
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline 		i am a masso sub and my Mistress is a sadist. as i have evolved as a slave my reactions have become more what my Mistress wants. i did a role play scene once it was fun but it did not get to the intensity of a good beating scene. the prep of the toys the sound of the dungon my body naked and tied to the cross flesh quivering after each blow is struck. the trickle of sweat that runs down my side as the beating goes on.

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LadyPact

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RE: I Admit It I........ - 9/22/2011 3:19:12 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Aakasha, the problem with a question like yours is that how one answers is dependant on their level of self awareness. Also, people tend to go through stages on their exploration of kink and those too affect how they see their actions.

For me, i now need less theatre but at the same time i absolutely get off more with someone who openly relishes being kinky rather than someone who might get off every bit as much but isnt expressive about it

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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/25/2011 12:08:28 PM   
sodsta


Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline 		I don't have much to add, just wanted to say that roleplaying in this manner is pretty much my favourite thing. :D

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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/27/2011 11:07:11 AM   
needsaroom


Posts: 15
Joined: 9/22/2011
Status: offline 		I am sexually submissive and only mildly masochistic. For me submission is a response to domination. I don't go around looking for someone to whom I can submit, but I know that I like it when someone dominates me.

What I like about responding to domination is that it's about what they want, not what I want. If we want the same thing there is no dominating going on, just agreement. In the case of mutual enthusiasm it doesn't matter if someone tells you to do what you are eager to do anyway. Some resistance is necessary for power to have an effect.

The dominant expresses their feeling powerfully, to inflict their will on the submissive (for my purposes, anyway). Within limits it matters only that the dominant wants it to happen and does what it takes to make it happen. Then what happens is what they wanted.

I think it is usually the case that when someone wants to dominate, it is to do something that usually doesn't happen otherwise without force of will and surrender to it. That kind of defines the interaction in the first place.

If it is a matter of forcing your will onto someone, then force is typically violent when it overcomes resistance. It can be a harmless kind of violence but in the moment, something pushes and something gives. Whether it is physical pain or pushing someone out of their comfort zone it is a type of violation.

Sincere responses happen immediately when the stimulation applied is not first measured and weighed by the submissive before reacting. Normally when people are in a balanced frame of mind, they stop and think about things before responding, if only for an instant. The intellect oversees and manages our interpretation and our reactions. When that step is set aside or bypassed, responses are direct and you might say more honest. At least, there is no room to contrive a response when you have not stopped to think one up.

In the case of sadism, when you want to get a "real" response, to actually inflict pain and see the person hurting, you would get better satisfied seeing reflexive reactions than if the object of your handiwork was calculating how to act like they thought you wanted to see them acting.

As the one who likes being dominated I like being in that state of mind where I am responding immediately without stopping to think, but what is even better is to feel the will of the dominant directly through their spontaneous actions. It matters on the receiving end, too, that things are sincere.

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RE: Sadism, Masochism, and "roleplaying." - 9/27/2011 1:48:45 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Endivius

The girls do not play a role whereby they pretend the pain is real, or the suffering. They know wholeheartedly that thier suffering brings me pleasure. I get my arousal from seeing them endure the pain. Because they trust me, they do whatever I want, and that is what turns me on. The commitment to suffer, the suffering, and the submission.



Hell Yaaaa!

BadOne

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We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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