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A question for people who play with switches... - 9/19/2011 12:05:29 PM

ghita

Posts: 117
Joined: 12/4/2006
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I know this is "Ask a Switch" but mine is more a question for the people who play with them..

When I play with someone, I tend to see them as a "top" or "bottom"...even if I know they are a switch, what ever they are in their interaction with me is just how I see them...I guess thats my flaw, I dont know. It doesnt usually matter to me if they tell me they bottom to someone else, if they Top me, then darn it they are a top.

So if there is this guy...that I will always see as a Top, no matter what, inside my head he is a Top...and all of a sudden Im at a party and I see him tied up and beaten like a red headed step child....how the hell am I supposed to handle that? It was really freaking weird. The entire scene was very intense, and very violent, with absolutely no aftercare or whatnot...and inside my head I was screaming "no no no" this isnt supposed to be happening.

I mean I know it is. Its not like he didnt sign up for the scene. I know its the dynamic he wanted...it was his choice...

But it doesnt make a lot of sense to me....and it made me look at him weird for the rest of the evening.

Is that normal? do other people have trouble seeing someone as "both" even when they know they are switches?

RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/19/2011 1:10:38 PM

NiceGuyNihilist

Posts: 194
Joined: 3/25/2011
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As a switch whose interests run from one extreme to the other, I've often wondered if women who see me play at a party, and who might have had some interest in me to begin with, ever get turned off when they see me in whichever role would not be compatible with theirs. I have noticed that female subs who start out by giving me a lusty eye sometimes seem to lose their interest once they've seen me bottom. I often don't see my bottoming as submissive at all, any more than I see fast motorcycling as submissive, but I can appreciate that for some women, a dominant guy just doesn't volunteer to be ripped with a whip.

I was once with a Domme who couldn't see me as anything but a boy in need of discipline. It was a real effort for her to restrain herself from saying things like, "How's my little Dom today?"

By the way, as long as we're on the subject of being unable to help how you feel, you should check out this lighthearted, carefree gambol of a thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_3847974/mpage_21/key_/tm.htm#3852525 and respond at the end. There's pie and lemonade when you're through.

_____________________________

“Consider it: every person you have ever met, every person will suffer the loss of his friends and family. All are going to lose everything they love in this world. Why would one want to be anything but kind to them in the meantime?"

Sam Harris

(in reply to ghita)

RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/21/2011 8:34:15 PM

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Ghita, (welcome back, btw) I think you have stumbled on the *exact* reason why some folks can not handle people who switch. In their mind, they have put this person in a specific place. A committed role. When they see the person take on another role, it can be very hard for them to accept. In some cases, it is their own conflict between what they perceive them to be, rather than what they really are.

As a Domme, this really isn't a big deal to Me. Seeing a switch's Dom or top side doesn't shake My foundations. I have no issue because power trickles down a certain way.

From the other side, not so much. I think, for some, it can destroy the illusion of how the hierarchy is supposed to work. To witness your supposed top/Dom submit (bottom) to somebody else, has the potential to disrupt what a person has created in their own head. The flow of power is going the wrong way to them. That creates a disconnect and they do not feel the strength, power, and security that they once had. It is very hard to watch the person you kneel in front of kneel in front of somebody else.

There's more to this, but I'll wait to explore it when others have contributed.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ghita)

RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/21/2011 9:01:16 PM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
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quote:

It was really freaking weird.

quote:

inside my head I was screaming "no no no" this isnt supposed to be happening.

YES! It is intensely weird! And deeply disturbing. If you think watching it is a mind fucker, try being the one doing the beating! GHAAAHHHHH!!!

quote:

It is very hard to watch the person you kneel in front of kneel in front of somebody else.

And even harder when it is you they are kneeling in front of!!

It takes enormous effort and sheer willpower to push through all the alarm bells and inner screams every time, it still does, it is only slightly easier <mostly because I know she will be back on top when the scene is done and that I can do it and that I'll get my reward when I do>, but it is what is required of me. It is what Hanners wants, and how difficult it is to me doesn't enter into the equation other than knowing that when I do manage to do it, I will get the hugest rush and just be floating in an erotic haze while I am doing whatever crazy thing she has decided I will do to her.

But that doesn't actually make it much easier to do it, it is still totally wrong on so many levels way deep down inside me, but as I said in the thread up in ask a sub, the harder it is to do, the more I love it. I am so proud and turned on and just stoned-high <for lack of a better word> when I've done it.

(in reply to ghita)

RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/22/2011 12:41:54 AM

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Joined: 9/8/2010
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What the fuck??

Oh. Never mind. As you were. I thought this was about making the bedroom light flick on and off very fast.

Strobe light!

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(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/22/2011 3:59:51 AM

Posts: 7157
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From: The cold bit of the UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

The flow of power is going the wrong way to them. That creates a disconnect and they do not feel the strength, power, and security that they once had. It is very hard to watch the person you kneel in front of kneel in front of somebody else.

for me, this pretty much encapsulates my thinking.

I don't really understand why people switch, but then again I don't understand why people dominate. Hell, at times I don't really understand why I submit!

It's not something I'm going to spend any more time on understanding. It just is, and that's that.

A few years ago a Domme I got on well with at my local munch and club decided to scene with another male Dom, but as the bottom. I found out later she was a masochist, so I totally understand why she wanted and enjoyed the incredibly hot scene that followed. However at the end of the scene, she kneeled before the Dom, kissed his feet and thanked him. Again, a hot scene, but one that really overloaded my brain. I found it hard to see her in quite the same light again afterwards.

But it's also why I decided fairly early on that I needed to be with someone who was totally dominant and not in the slightest masochistic. It would blow my mind (in a bad way) for me to be put in a dominant position (even if it was only as a top) over someone who is my Dominant.

I know there are those who will say that I'm being submissive by doing what he has ordered me to do, but my mind doesn't work that way. Not at all. Tried it, failed miserably.

Switching is cool, but it's not my thing

editted fur spelin

< Message edited by myotherself -- 9/22/2011 4:26:37 AM >

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RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/22/2011 1:13:31 PM

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This is the reason I never dated switches. I can't separate it in my mind and since I have zero interest in switching or being dominant and I'm monogamous, I could never satisfy that part for someone who is a switch.

When I was always in the beginning stages of meeting someone I always made sure they were aware that I would drop them like a hot potato if they ever wanted me to top them or they even had even a thought of wanting to submit to someone. It just turns me off.

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Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/22/2011 6:37:31 PM

MissImmortalPain

Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
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I'm not a switch but I can see where a lot of thought behind this comes from. Years ago I had a dom who though I would have given up my life for had he asked told me I wasn't really submissive. At the time I wasn't sure what he was trying to tell me. It took awhile for me to figure out he was right. I get off on pain. I think of it as something that has to be survived. Something that when I feel it proves I am strong. I have a sub now that I can't ask to hurt me because though he will do it the minute I makes a noise that sounds like "stop it" (insert angry voice here) he runs like he is scared I will kill him. I have a friend that is dom and I can ask him to hurt me, he has no problem with it, but I know in the back of my mind I'm just trying to prove him wrong when he says he can hurt me. Make me beg him to stop. etc. He has even said so much in that he doesn't get the same kick out of me that he does "real subs" because he has seen me as a domme. So I think it works both ways.

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

(in reply to littlewonder)

RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/22/2011 10:36:34 PM

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Granted, I'm terribly inexperienced atm, but I think it helps a lot to understand somewhere in the back of your mind that it's all just for fun and to not take things too seriously or overanalyze.

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when passion's a prison you can't break free"

(in reply to MissImmortalPain)

RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/23/2011 8:11:39 PM

Posts: 781
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From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
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I'm a switch, but I don't switch with the same person. It would screw with my head too much so I can understand what you're saying, OP. I have a Dom and a sub. Daddy says he's cool with me Domming my sub and my sub says he's cool with me subbing to Daddy.

I remember when I was all sub and not a switch yet, I used to have a switch play partner years ago. First he would Dom me and then I would service Top him. For some reason, that never tweeked me out. Maybe because (1)it was just casual play partners rather than a full D/s dynamic and (2)because, in my sub mind, I looked at it as pleasing him regardless of what he wanted.

~Hisprettybaby~

(in reply to hangemhigh1953)

RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/25/2011 2:51:31 AM

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Ok I have to say that if you were there and you saw that he was just left on his own that was your cue to go over to him and give him after care.
You know, just get him a glass of water and sit him down and hug him as he won't give out to you for it!
Its all about I think making sure that people you know are being treated right in the scene!

So you can see it's not hard! If anyone that had been playing with him comes up and try's to talk to you just put your index finger up to them. Say to the guy your looking after "just a minute k?" Then look back at the guy who had been playing with him and if says nothing to you about wanting to give him aftercare in a 3 minutes just say "please, leave me alone".If he doesn't walk away and thinks that he can start arguing with you, if you know of someone there that can help you don't feel like you can't call out his name.
When you do this he'll ask you "what's the story?" and you say "that you felt really bad for your friend thats beside you that was given no aftercare when he was played with and the guy that was talking to you tried to start a verbal fight and your interested in dealing with someone like that!"
Trust me it'll be grand, k?
My Master always gives me good aftercare.

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Don't too much or too little just be happy with what you've done!

(in reply to Hisprettybaby)

RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/25/2011 4:58:36 AM

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i will admit, it confuses me, too. i also get pretty tied to a first impression, and it's difficult for me to change that.
i don't totally understand switching anyway, and being unnerved by things we don't understand is pretty typical for humans. i used to feel bad about it and just not admit to it because i'd read posts elsewhere that basically said you were "wrong" to feel that way, but i don't think that's true. it's no more wrong to feel this than it is for a person to be totally fine with switching. some people are okay with it, and some people aren't -- there's no value judgment attached, or at least there shouldn't be.

i haven't said to myself "i would never date a switch" because i never know what life might throw my way. but it would probably be difficult to carry out a D/s relationship with that person -- oooor if they had an s-side, i would probably prefer not to be a witness to it. though, honestly, until i really experienced that scenario in a relationship, i still don't even want to say THAT for sure. =p maybe it wouldn't be so scary because the relationship, if it's solid, could change the way you think about it.
but with a friend, it is definitely a little odd for me.

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(in reply to Sunny27)

RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/25/2011 6:53:48 AM

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I can kind of understand switching with different people. The idea of switching with the same person confuses me - that's just too fluid and complicated a relationship dynamic for me to follow.

I suppose it's the natural result of having a switch who HAS TO fill both roles (as opposed to one who is able to but has no need to fill one role) who doesn't want poly.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/25/2011 12:42:27 PM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
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quote:

I suppose it's the natural result of having a switch who HAS TO fill both roles (as opposed to one who is able to but has no need to fill one role)

Or one who just wants to.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/25/2011 12:59:22 PM

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From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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I've said this before, no one is 100% dom or 100% sub. In my mind, we are all somewhere on a very long continuum, which means I may dom someone who doms another, and yet be dommed by someone who subs to someone else.

And why ever not?

Some people are more submissive than me, some are more dominant than me, and each and every one of us is in the same exact place in terms of there being some people more sub than you, and some more dom.

As a switch from birth, I just don't see the big divide in the sky that says, okay, all subs are over here and all doms over there.

I see the big long continuum, and people floating back and forth depending on where they are that day.

The human psyche is very fluid; hasn't history taught us how dangerous it is when you try to force people into preconceived molds?

Or am I just being philosophical on a rainy Sunday afternoon?

Oh well fuck me, that was an FR, so a response to the thread in general, not to Heather in particular.

< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 9/25/2011 1:00:23 PM >

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RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/26/2011 5:39:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I can kind of understand switching with different people. The idea of switching with the same person confuses me - that's just too fluid and complicated a relationship dynamic for me to follow.

I suppose it's the natural result of having a switch who HAS TO fill both roles (as opposed to one who is able to but has no need to fill one role) who doesn't want poly.

Yes that may confuse some though for myself; I find that with the right person, switching between topping and bottoming seems to come naturally for me. I have one friend whom I play with that is also a switch and it feels natural when we have played that I'll want to reverse our roles and have him bottom to what I want to do to him. It also is an ideal situation as when I do have that chance to switch to a more dominant role, I am able to do so at my pace and not at the express request of another.

_____________________________

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Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/26/2011 6:20:28 PM

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I have always been confused by this (in a curious way not a judgemental way). For me, domination, submission, topping and bottoming are generally about interpersonal energies. I have occasionally topped, but mostly with women I have known very well who had acted as tops to me previously (I am not counting more vanilla activities and early bdsm exploration from my youth where societal conditioning made me feel it was my role as a guy to play more of the top or assertive role). I can identify as a bottom and/or submissive because I get far more satisfaction in that type of role in play or in a relationship.

At the same time, I have observed two women I have been a bottom to (one a relationship, one more of a play partner) be topped., In both cases, they were topped by other women, though I don't think it would have impacted me that differently if men had topped them. The fact is that I had a personal energy or dynamic with both of the women that made me feel a submissive bond with them and that made me get a huge rush out of being a bottom for them. That was not affected by knowing or even seeing that they liked to be topped at times. In fact, even if I was the only person in the world who had been submissive to either of them I don't think it would matter. Without that interpersonal dynamic I would not feel submissive to or be inclined to bottom to anyone.

I also don't see it in terms of a dominant or submissive spectrum. If person A tops me and person B tops person A, that does not in anyway mean I feel submissive or "bottomy" towards person B. Again, it goes back to an interpersonal energy or dynamic - not that I don't seek out tops or dommes knowing the satisfaction that type of interpersonal energy can bring me, but I can't create the energy that makes me want to bottom or feel submissive on a whim and I don't really see it in terms of some deeper identity.

I will be interested to hear other perspectives. I am also curious if there is a gender difference in the likelihood of these types of feelings, particularly with female bottoms/subs who are into male dommes/tops.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Ghita, (welcome back, btw) I think you have stumbled on the *exact* reason why some folks can not handle people who switch. In their mind, they have put this person in a specific place. A committed role. When they see the person take on another role, it can be very hard for them to accept. In some cases, it is their own conflict between what they perceive them to be, rather than what they really are.

As a Domme, this really isn't a big deal to Me. Seeing a switch's Dom or top side doesn't shake My foundations. I have no issue because power trickles down a certain way.

From the other side, not so much. I think, for some, it can destroy the illusion of how the hierarchy is supposed to work. To witness your supposed top/Dom submit (bottom) to somebody else, has the potential to disrupt what a person has created in their own head. The flow of power is going the wrong way to them. That creates a disconnect and they do not feel the strength, power, and security that they once had. It is very hard to watch the person you kneel in front of kneel in front of somebody else.

There's more to this, but I'll wait to explore it when others have contributed.

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/27/2011 6:26:17 AM

Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I've said this before, no one is 100% dom or 100% sub. In my mind, we are all somewhere on a very long continuum, which means I may dom someone who doms another, and yet be dommed by someone who subs to someone else.

I'm sorry that we have to disagree, but I'm afraid we must. What you are saying here is very similar to the theory that "everybody is at least a little bisexual" when that isn't the case at all. Just like there really are folks who are a zero or a six on the Kinsey scale, there really are those who are only sub or only D. Granted, I don't think it's nearly the number that some folks would like to pursued others that it might be, but it really is there.

It's no better to try to force people into preconceived molds that they *must* be Dom or sub than it is to say they *must* have some switch in them somewhere. I think we're much better off taking people as they come.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/27/2011 9:10:48 AM

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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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I am not a switch. I have bottomed very heavily in the past, and have these memories of having a blast, but it was only bottoming for physical challenge and sensation, and always with the same folks who bottomed for me (with the exception of rope).

Never in a million years would I kneel to someone, or do anything remotely submissive. It's just not me. Just like being bisexual isn't me.

I understand wanting to bottom, I remember the fun (though if it was so much fun, wouldnt I have done it at some point in the last 12 yrs?) but I really have a hard time wrapping my head around dom/sub switches. I'm not even going to tell you that I don't have any internal issues about it--because when I see a woman with a submissive submit to someone else? Big time cognitive dissonance. BIG TIME. I don't look down on them, or try to "change" anyone, because we should do what makes us happy, but yeah, it makes me very, very, very uncomfortable.

I have read on other threads that predominantly sub/bottom women totally freak out when they see men they view as dom/top bottom. Or yanno, want a prostate massage.

I say it's good to know that you feel that way. If you find that this personal prejudice gets in the way, work on it, otherwise, smile silently, because other folks are giving YOU the hairy eyeball over what you do.

Real life example--a few years back we brought Midori to town, and I got to be her wrangler and bondage bunny. (YES I RULE!!!) Big domly dom Hib, getting this total fancy scene with Midori, in front of over a hundred people. It was teh awesome, we totally clicked. NO ONE said anything to me that wasn't congratulatory. They were way impressed that I would do something like that in public. Actually enhanced my street cred that I got hogtied on a stage. Go figure.

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[page 23 girl]

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: A question for people who play with switches... - 9/27/2011 3:35:22 PM

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Well, I have no problem kneeling for My grandchildren.

I think it must be nice, in it's own way, to feel different energy with different people. I have to admit that it's completely foreign to Me. I get either the sub vibe from folks or what I'll call "flat". Since I don't do power plays with other Dominants, that's the flat area. There's no pull one way or the other. Just folks, ya know?

Darn shame more folks aren't contributing to this thread. I would be interested in hearing more.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

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