RE: I renounce Christianity

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: I renounce Christianity

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: I renounce Christianity

Page: << < prev 17 18 19 [20] 21 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/1/2011 10:53:26 PM

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

EPD: To be honest, at this point I am inclined to believe that everything in the New Testament is a fabrication.

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/arch-nt.html

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SuzeCheri)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/1/2011 10:55:44 PM

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri

I'm not being disrespectful, nor am I lowering myself either. It's just the truth. The idea just makes no sense whatsoever (which is what nonsense/nonsensical means, isn't it?). You may as well say I wouldn't recognize that I was downstairs until I had been upstairs.

No, I'm saying that you obviously are not understanding what I'm trying to say. Recently just developed another kidney stone and all the fun that goes with it, as well as heading toward kidney failure (again) and have been dealing with insomnia for a while, so it is quite possible I'm not being as clear as I would normally. It also means that I'm not clearly understanding how what you are saying would be possible, hence my posts on how immortality could work, given what I see are serious potential issues that would naturally arise.

And yes, there are a couple that are being a bit argumentative, and you are getting a bit snarky with them. I don't necessarily blame you, I want to bitch slap some people for their snarkiness. But responding back with snarkiness just isn't going to further things, even when you are tired of the nonsense and want to bitch slap them.

You have achieved what I didn't think was possible here. You started a thread on religion and for the most part, everyone has been able to act like adults and have a very interesting exchange of thoughts (again except for a couple of people on both sides of the belief/non belief). Most religion threads devolve into people being rude and obnoxious to each other because they can't brow beat/insult them into their beliefs. You have conducted yourself with a great deal of maturity and intelligence. Any snarkiness (from you or others) tends to have the effect of negating what you say regardless of whether it made sense or not.

I would seriously like you to find answers and peace, although I fear that only time is every going to do that.

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 10/1/2011 11:03:28 PM >

(in reply to SuzeCheri)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/1/2011 10:56:57 PM

Posts: 483
Joined: 7/19/2011
From: Outside looking in
Status: offline

Interesting, but proves nothing.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/1/2011 10:59:59 PM

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Sadly for your argument, I made no attempt to define either 'good' or 'evil'.

No need to. In both your statement of the claim and the first point of your argument you refer to "a God of pure goodness."

"Pure" goodness is perfect goodness. That's what sets up the trick: an association between perfection and goodness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

My argument doesn't rely on a particular definition of either good or evil is adopted.

You bet it doesn't. And why bother? Your argument has nothing to do with good and evil.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

my argument relies on 'good' and 'evil' being mutually exclusionary values

You mean the illusion relies on using good and evil as proxies for perfection and imperfection, which are mutually exclusive.

With good and evil it's not always so easy to say...

And that's where it fails. Christianity doesn't claim that the world is perfect.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/1/2011 11:14:25 PM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/1/2011 11:01:40 PM

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri

Interesting, but proves nothing.

Hmmm... you stated the New Testament was fiction.

Actually, what you said was....

I am inclined to believe that everything in the New Testament is a fabrication.

The site proves there is much within the New testament which is not fiction, including the presence of Jesus...

Im sure a smart cookie like you can connect the dots.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 10/1/2011 11:02:42 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SuzeCheri)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/1/2011 11:13:58 PM

Posts: 483
Joined: 7/19/2011
From: Outside looking in
Status: offline

quote:

"Pure" goodness is perfect goodness. That's what sets up the trick: an association between perfection and goodness.

I don't think I have ever disagreed with you, but there is always a first time. Pure goodness means only that it is unalloyed, unmixed with anything, nothing but goodness, there is no trace of evil for example. That it has anything to do with perfection is an association you are making that isn't inherent in what she said.

This time you are making something up wholesale. What you say is there just isn't.

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/1/2011 11:37:17 PM

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri

I don't think I have ever disagreed with you, but there is always a first time. Pure goodness means only that it is unalloyed, unmixed with anything, nothing but goodness, there is no trace of evil for example. That it has anything to do with perfection is an association you are making that isn't inherent in what she said.

Well, what must be must be... But lemme try to save us from this horrible state of affairs.

Synomyms for pure include flawless, perfect
Synomyms for perfect include pure, faultless

How could pure goodness be other than perfectly good, or perfect goodness be other than pure?

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/1/2011 11:41:46 PM >

(in reply to SuzeCheri)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/1/2011 11:46:50 PM

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri

Interesting, but proves nothing.

Hmmm... you stated the New Testament was fiction.

Actually, what you said was....

I am inclined to believe that everything in the New Testament is a fabrication.

The site proves there is much within the New testament which is not fiction, including the presence of Jesus...

Im sure a smart cookie like you can connect the dots.

Thats not what this is about, its about her playing dodgeball and simply being obtuse. States her points then when they are invalidated defaults to claiming off topic.

several people have made earnest attempts to help and given her superb advice all of which she summarily rejects. This appears to be nothing more than bait and switch game under the veil of poor traumatized me. I no longer buy it. Probably has a bet with heather how many pages she can keep it going.

yes yes I know its not the op LOL

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/1/2011 11:47:43 PM

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

LOL even the OP cant stay on topic

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/1/2011 11:49:40 PM

Posts: 483
Joined: 7/19/2011
From: Outside looking in
Status: offline

Because synonyms are not automatically interchangeable, there are nuances and also alternate secondary meanings. Pure does not always mean the same thing as perfect, they are not always interchangeable. In a purely semantic discussion, this would be perfectly clear.

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/1/2011 11:54:01 PM

Posts: 483
Joined: 7/19/2011
From: Outside looking in
Status: offline

quote:

several people have made earnest attempts to help and given her superb advice all of which she summarily rejects.

Because I never asked for or wanted help nor was I seeking advice. They, like you, didn't understand what the thread is about.

What do you think the thread is about?

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/1/2011 11:55:53 PM

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

The universe decides the matter, not any human-created fiction.

If people and animals and trees die, then that is a product of where the universe stands at the moment. There is some scientific investigation and actual results into the issue of sub-atomic particles possessing "intelligence", further implication of spiritual underpinning of matter and energy, etc.

I don't know why we expect the universe or God or whoever to have it all figured out at once.

If you are perfect, then I suppose you might reasonably expect the same from the universe, God, or both. Please chime in here.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 10/1/2011 11:57:45 PM >

(in reply to SuzeCheri)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/1/2011 11:58:22 PM

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri

quote:

several people have made earnest attempts to help and given her superb advice all of which she summarily rejects.
Because I never asked for or wanted help nor was I seeking advice. They, like you, didn't understand what the thread is about.

What do you think the thread is about?

its about your rejection of Christianity and God based on poorly ill-framed premises.

What do you think its about?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SuzeCheri)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/2/2011 12:04:33 AM

Posts: 483
Joined: 7/19/2011
From: Outside looking in
Status: offline

Its about my rejection of Christianity, BUT NOT GOD, based on very well framed and apparently very ancient issues, that have bedevilled greater minds than yours for a long time, with the inherent contradictions between the nature of god as espoused by Christianity and reality.

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/2/2011 12:09:01 AM

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri

Its about my rejection of Christianity, BUT NOT GOD, based on very well framed and apparently very ancient issues, that have bedevilled greater minds than yours for a long time, with the inherent contradictions between the nature of god as espoused by Christianity and reality.

`

well then answer the murder question happy meal.

and of course your above statement "proving" you dodged the point and fibbed us when you said it was off topic. shame shame.

gonna dodge it again you little bedeviller you?

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 10/2/2011 12:11:34 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SuzeCheri)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/2/2011 12:20:49 AM

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Sadly for your argument, I made no attempt to define either 'good' or 'evil'.

No need to. In both your statement of the claim and the first point of your argument you refer to "a God of pure goodness."

"Pure" goodness is perfect goodness. That's what sets up the trick: an association between perfection and goodness.

The "God of pure goodness" isn't my claim. It's the Christian claim. Your point is specious.

Which could well be more than can be said for the rest of your post - which amounts to little more than twaddle. For example:

quote:

And that's where [your argument] fails. Christianity doesn't claim that the world is perfect.

Again I'm not making a claim the world is perfect. I'm not saying a thing about the world. The only person mentioning the world is you. I am saying something about the Christian claims about their version of God. Christians claim their God is perfect, omnipotent, all-loving, omnibenevolent......

It seems you have nothing better to offer than a strawman argument. Boring! Please find some one else to indulge your strawman fantasies.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/2/2011 12:25:53 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/2/2011 12:46:55 AM

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

Yes, the thrashing of the dead horse thing here. Some person doing the same thing as was done by thousands of others more than 800 years ago, proclaiming it as a new insight, in fact only new to her.

Pardon my loud snoring here.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 10/2/2011 12:57:53 AM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/2/2011 12:56:00 AM

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

~

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 10/2/2011 12:57:22 AM >

(in reply to Edwynn)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/2/2011 12:58:45 AM

Posts: 483
Joined: 7/19/2011
From: Outside looking in
Status: offline

quote:

So since you want to get into good and evil what about all the living biological creatures etc that you ingest every day.

You murder them.

and you continue to murder them today tomorrow and in the future.

Most people on the planet would agree that murder is evil.

They did not have a choice in the matter, and you wasted them, therefore you are a murderer and must be evil.

Now what if you were somethings happy meal?

Seems you have a problem.

Or do all those creatures etc welcome death as "good" so you can live?

Now what?

This one? I did answer it, you asked "now what" and I gave you an answer (I thank you because...). If that wasn't what you were asking, what exactly were you asking?

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 10/2/2011 1:25:37 AM

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri

Because synonyms are not automatically interchangeable, there are nuances and also alternate secondary meanings. Pure does not always mean the same thing as perfect, they are not always interchangeable.

Your disagreement is noted and accepted. But here's one of those nuances: I never claimed they were "always" or "automatically" interchangeable.

Good and evil are not so easily classed as mutually exclusive. Some actions may partake of both. But the argument requires mutual exclusivity. So to create (the illusion of) mutual exclusivity it contrasts "pure goodness" with evil, trying to have its way by playing on two fields at once. The opposite of "pure goodness" isn't evil, it's "pure evil." And to go there fully would transfer the argument into an abstract world of absolutes, destroying the illusion of it having any relevance to reality. So to pull off the trick of making it appear to work, it has to cheat.

That said, I'm not trying to defend Christian doctrine here. My objection is solely to the argument being advanced against it.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/2/2011 1:34:04 AM >

(in reply to SuzeCheri)

Page: << < prev 17 18 19 [20] 21 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: I renounce Christianity

Page: << < prev 17 18 19 [20] 21 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.117