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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 5:56:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Firm
Consider me firming below, providing you allow me. Nice posting.
Would only like to ask you what do you mean in (2) as "imperfect". For me, perfection needs a parameter - for what. What is perfect for one thing is imperfect for another. But that would be completely off-topic and would need another thread.

SMM,

Thank you for your compliment.

However, be advised that I have arrived at far different conclusions than you have, and do not embrace Secular Humanism, nor atheism. I state this plainly, in case my above post lead you to believe otherwise.

In answer to what is "perfect" ... there are no parameters or measurements. Perfection does not exist. It is entirely a subjective term and conclusion.

Best wishes and welcome to the forums.

Firm

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 6:01:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

'Paul Bell reviewed all studies taken of religion and IQ. He concluded:

"Of 43 studies carried out since 1927 on the relationship between religious belief and one's intelligence and/or educational level, all but four found an inverse connection. That is, the higher one's intelligence or education level, the less one is likely to be religious."”

Well unh, if you think that supports your bald claim that "90% of MENSA members are atheists or agnostics" then clearly the correlation fails in your case.

K.

(in reply to Tantriqu)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 6:18:27 AM

SpanishMatMaster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
However, be advised that I have arrived at far different conclusions than you have, and do not embrace Secular Humanism, nor atheism. I state this plainly, in case my above post lead you to believe otherwise.

I am sorry for giving you the impression that I am unable to appreciate points of view from people who are not secular humanists. It is a wrong impression. But i do sign your posting, where you wrote more about methods and perspectives, as about conclusions. Have a nice day.

PS: Does somebody know how can I get rid of that frigging vanilla-ice symbol and text? I start to feel the obscure wicked need to snuggle up with a girl looking at a sunset...

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 9/30/2011 6:29:00 AM >

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 6:23:13 AM

SpanishMatMaster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
Yawn. Old google data from one European website, possibly in the Vatican ;-).

More like data taken from the Metropolitan Washington Mensa. If you cannot provide better data refuting what he brought, you should admit that you were wrong on that point. Best regards.

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 6:27:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
However, be advised that I have arrived at far different conclusions than you have, and do not embrace Secular Humanism, nor atheism. I state this plainly, in case my above post lead you to believe otherwise.

I am sorry for giving you the impression that I am unable to appreciate points of view from people who are not secular humanists. It is a wrong impression. But i do sign your posting, where you wrote more about methods and perspectives, as about conclusions. Have a nice day.

SMM,

It is often unclear the intent and the level of genuine appreciation that people may hold. Sarcasm and snarkiness is common, but I attempt to take most people at their word.

In my response to you I was very straight forward, and had no snark. I just wanted to ensure that your language barrier did not cause confusion.

This post of yours in response appears to be snarky and dismissive. Perhaps this is a failure of understanding on my part?

Firm

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 6:30:46 AM

SpanishMatMaster

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Yes, it is FirmhandKY. It is completely honest, serious and not sarcastic. I guess you can understand the PREVIOUS sentences now as sarcastic, and honestly, I do not know how can I erase that impression.
Are people here so used to divide themselves in to block with no possible common ground that they do not believe it when somebeody from the "other side" considers that a posting from the other was simply CORRECT!? I hope not! You did not post "God exists! Believe me!" You posted a whole bunch of reasonable stuff I totally agree with (exception - perfection :) ). That's all.

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 9/30/2011 6:32:43 AM >

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 6:31:59 AM

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~ FR ~

A standard item in every religion basher's toolbox is the claim of an inverse relationship between intelligence and religious belief. Unfortunately, however, it is not a claim that argues well for the intelligence of the person making it.

Define "intelligence," for example, or define "religious belief." A lot depends on how you define those terms and what proxies you use to represent them, e.g., years of education, frequency of attendance at religious services, etc. But what kind of education, and what kind of services? Snake-handlers or synagogues? No matter?

Education Affects Americans' Religiosity -- But Not How You Might Think

Science and Religion Do Mix? Only 15 Percent of Scientists at Major Research Universities See Religion and Science Always in Conflict

More Than 20 Percent of Atheist Scientists Are 'Spiritual', Study Finds

Give a small boy a hammer, and he will find that everything he encounters needs pounding. ~Abraham Kaplan

K.

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 6:36:13 AM

SpanishMatMaster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

For the sake of completitude...Leading scientists still reject God

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 6:44:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

For the sake of completitude... Leading scientists still reject God

For the sake of crimson piscine creatures, neither religion nor spirituality require belief in a "God."

K.

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 6:53:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

Yes, it is FirmhandKY. It is completely honest, serious and not sarcastic. I guess you can understand the PREVIOUS sentences now as sarcastic, and honestly, I do not know how can I erase that impression.
Are people here so used to divide themselves in to block with no possible common ground that they do not believe it when somebeody from the "other side" considers that a posting from the other was simply CORRECT!? I hope not! You did not post "God exists! Believe me!" You posted a whole bunch of reasonable stuff I totally agree with (exception - perfection :) ). That's all.

SMM,

I have no problems with any of your posts, and your clarity is refreshing and not always that common.

I try to ensure that my understanding is correct, and I was simply attempting to ensure that our communications were accurate.

Best wishes.

Firm

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 6:55:11 AM

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the body of christ compels you! the body of christ compels you!

The Right Reverend Max Von Sydow

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 6:57:27 AM

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 6:59:54 AM

SpanishMatMaster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
For the sake of crimson piscine creatures, neither religion nor spirituality require belief in a "God."

For the sake of Tutatis, Christianity does

. This is funny! Your turn! For the sake of... the Knights of the Square Table? Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 9/30/2011 7:01:29 AM >

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 7:06:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Good examples of bad questions, leading to a pre-defined answer.

And would you could source it, please. I'm not sure that Epicurus said this, and if he did, that it was about God, but more likely about the gods of ancient Greece.

Firm

edited to add: found the origin of the quote:

Epicurus is generally credited with first expounding the problem of evil, and it is sometimes called "the Epicurean paradox" or "the riddle of Epicurus":

Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world? — Epicurus, as quoted in 2000 Years of Disbelief

Epicurus himself did not leave any written form of this argument. It can be found in Christian theologian Lactantius's Treatise on the Anger of God where Lactantius critiques the argument. Epicurus's argument as presented by Lactantius actually argues that a god that is all-powerful and all-good does not exist and that the gods are distant and uninvolved with man's concerns. The gods are neither our friends nor enemies.

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 9/30/2011 7:10:54 AM >

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 7:35:30 AM

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Well as long as we're having fun, did you know that Heaven is hotter than Hell?

Let us turn to the Good Book....

Moreover, the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold as the light of seven days. ~Isaiah 30:26

Omitting the calculations, that makes Heaven a toasty 977 degrees Farenheit.

But the fearful and unbelieving... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone. ~Revelations 21:8

Brimstone (or sulfur) becomes a gas at 832.28 degrees Farenheit.

Therefore, Heaven is hotter than Hell.

K.

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 7:38:27 AM

SpanishMatMaster

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Thank you for the insight.

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 7:41:46 AM

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I like the thermodynamics of Hell a bit more....

The Thermodynamics of Hell
The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid term. The
answer by one student was so "profound" that the professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet, which is, of course, why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.
Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?

Most of the chemistry majors wrote proofs using Boyle's Law, (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate
that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, lets look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell.
Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell.

With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase
exponentially.

Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order
for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added.

This leaves two possibilities:
1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the
temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until All Hell Breaks Loose.
2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell Freezes Over.
So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year,
"... it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you," and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in sleeping with her, then #2 cannot be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is Exothermic and will not freeze.

The student received the only "A" given.

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 7:42:51 AM

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i wonder how many people lose faith when something bad happens?
i consider myself spiritual but not religious (this is just one of many reasons why i can't seem to relate to other black people, hahaha =p)
i was actually slipping away from it for a while; i don't necessarily not believe in God, i just don't believe in organized religion.

but after my M died; he was an out-and-out non-Christian. and so many people had these complicated dreams that synched up with each other -- about the place where he was and that he was happy. and it changed the way i thought of the afterlife. and it seems like christianity is so focused on "only we will get to the afterlife" and clearly this man who i knew to be a non-christian was there.

so there's more going on than christianity accounts for, and i just don't wholly subscribe to it anymore.

plus, geez -- on a grief board, i read a response by a lady who said "God took my husband away because i was focusing too much on him instead of God" -- okay if "God" will do that, then i don't think i want to hang out with him anyway. if that was the reason M had to go through a terrifying drowning death in cold, dirty, swirling water, then screw that.

the thing is, i've had some great experienced with "God" -- i do believe there is SOMETHING there, i just don't think it's as neat and tidy as Christianity wants to make it.

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 9/30/2011 7:43:20 AM >

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 7:51:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

Thank you for the insight.

Well actually, the phrase in Isaiah refers to "the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound."

Loose interpretation: the New Jerusalem, Heaven on Earth.

(mumble mumble)

K.

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RE: I renounce Christianity - 9/30/2011 7:55:43 AM

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Entering this one late but I will only add this (for now).

Christianity in and of itself is a great idea. The teachings of christ are the teachings of a truly good person and he should be emulated (possibly like Buddha?).

The problems occur when Christianity becomes organized. These organizations tend to lose sight of their goal of making mankind a more moral beast and slip to the goal of pure unadulterated POWER.

Religion is a force for good. Organized religion (which Jesus warned against) is where the evil comes in.

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Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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