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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 6:51:42 AM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

That's asking for trouble.
Funny, it seems to work in a lot of other countries.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 6:59:59 AM   
ArizonaBossMan


Posts: 380
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Status: offline 		EVERYTHING FREEEEEE! Yeah, that works everywhere it's tried. I say let the idiots sing and chant... they are the true face of the modern democrat party. One more year of this nonsense. ONE MORE YEAR.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 7:00:54 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Status: offline 		I never qualified for any loans "back in the day" because my parents were employed...and I just paid for grad school both times without even bothering to apply for loans. I think the last time I graduated was in 93. I cannot imagine how folks are coming up with the tuition monies that schools are charging now. I have seen a bunch of folks go the equity loan route, which is purely scary.

One of my clients was trying to make a deal with whoever her holder was, and they told her that they would NOT accept the lesser monthly payment she was offering. Like, don't send us a check, lady, we don't want it. Treatment like that makes defaulting much more appealing.

How do you decide what the favorable jobs are, to "finance" that education? What if you don't have the chops for medical school, or the connections to get a good job in a big law firm?

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 7:00:58 AM   
ArizonaBossMan


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Status: offline 		and it doesn't work in other countries... look at greece.. look at a lot of them in europe, about to go belly up. Like Lady Thatcher once said, "Socialism works great until you run out of other people's money"

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 7:13:32 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan

and it doesn't work in other countries... look at greece.. look at a lot of them in europe, about to go belly up. Like Lady Thatcher once said, "Socialism works great until you run out of other people's money"

How much did the bush bail out cost tax-payers again?

Those poor up-trodden banksters got billions..............for free.



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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 7:51:04 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

I didn't see a total on the first website
Right at the very top, just before the actual table begins.





Ah, thanks!

In addition to the car companies, which are expected to return a loss, that page includes Fannie and Freddie, which are also outside the scope of this discussion.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 7:54:55 AM   
Iamsemisweet


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Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Huh?:  State funded higher education is about the best thing that the states' offer their citizens.  The whole idea was to provide a subsidized education so that people who couldn't afford private schools might still have a chance for a good education.  I think what you are saying is that if the state universities didn't exist, private competitors would take over?  Hmmm.  Doubt it.  Because the universities in my state get less and less subsidized all the time, and the alternatives remain even more expensive.  UW has lost HALF it's state funding in 3 years.  Despite being tax payer supported, they actively recruit out of state and foreign students, who pay more tuition.  So if some private alternative wants to step in, now is the time.
Or am I completely misunderstanding what you are saying?  Maybe you were making a joke, and I didn't get it?
What makes it worse is that there aren't jobs right now, or maybe ever again, for young people, whether they have an education or not.  Even though universities and colleges "sell" themselves based on their job placement rates, they are no longer delivering. Consumers need to look much more critically at whether an education is really going to deliver a better life for them.  In a situation where a kid is graduating with 60-100 grand in debt and  the placement rate in their chosen field is 10%, I would say probably not.  I know I went to graduate school with many people who deeply regret that they made the decision to attend.   
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

How about adequately funding higher education so people don't have to incur outrageous amounts of debt?


That's asking for trouble.

The problem is that higher education is too damn expensive.  Under the free market, competitors will spring up offering a similar product for less.  The only way that cannot happen is if there is a subsidy.  In other words, "adequately funding higher education" will keep prices artificially high at taxpayer expense.



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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 7:55:00 AM   
HeatherMcLeather


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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 8:00:58 AM   
Iamsemisweet


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From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		The bankruptcy laws were changed in 2005 to include private loans (not just federally guaranteed) in the exception from discharge also.  Pretty slick, wouldn't you say?  The only exception is for undue hardship, which is a difficult standard to meet.  2005 is when the banks lobbied Congress to change the banko laws to make discharge of credit card debt, among other things, much more difficult. 

My acquaintance who got rid of her loans through refinancing and a strategic default?  Pure happenstance, it wasn't some scheme to get rid of her loans.  It just worked out that way.
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Will loans taken out by parents,so that their only beloved son can go to NYU,be forgiven ?
Enquiring minds want to know ( so do broke ass disabled parents who are struggling to do what is right,while still living a decent life...with gas in the car...lol)

Without researching I couldn't tell you for certain, but I'm pretty sure that any Federal Government guaranteed student loan is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy.

The person mentioned in a post above, who used a home equity loan to pay them off, and then took a strategic bankruptcy (or foreclosure) was slick, but not everyone can do something like that.

Firm



< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 10/18/2011 8:02:48 AM >

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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 8:05:12 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

If you read closely it says that there has been a freeze.
No it doesn't, not on the 1st site she linked to at any rate.


Its all the same site.



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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 8:08:49 AM   
HeatherMcLeather


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From: The dog house
Status: offline 		True, it is, my choice of wording was not completely accurate, allow me to rephrase: "No it doesn't, not on the 1st page she linked to on that site at any rate."

Happy now?

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 8:09:07 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

These students and their families borrowed money and need to grow up and pay it back.
While that is true, you have to look at why they borrowed. The decision they were faced with was: poverty or debt.Those are the options offered to people just starting out in life, and these days the debt option doesn't preclude poverty the way it used to. And that is the problem.



That's too black and white. I can't speak for Canada, but in the US, the state universities and colleges are considerably cheaper than private colleges. So there's choices between moderate debt and crushing debt right there. I think you, Suze, and Cheri are all going to different schools? What are the rates at each one?

Additionally, I personally have no student loans because Uncle Sam paid for my 4 years of college. There are additional options for those who do not wish to be part of the military.

http://sitemason.vanderbilt.edu/files/e/ebjiQ8/Chapter%204%20Service%20Based%20Scholarships.pdf

SERVICE BASED SCHOLARSHIPS:
MILITARY, PEACE CORPS, TEACH FOR AMERICA, AMERICORPS, AND CITY YEAR
There are many opportunities across the United States and internationally to perform service to
your country or community and receive financial assistance for your college education. In this section we
explain the education options and funding available in the most popular programs: the Peace Corps,
AmeriCorps, Teach for America, City Year, and the U.S. Military. Each program differs in the amount of
money available, how much time is required, and if you serve your time before or after your education.
Investigate each program carefully before signing a contract because in some cases you cannot change
your mind after you join. Some programs are designed for college graduates, but it is useful to keep this
option in mind for post-graduation while applying for college.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 8:12:56 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

True, it is, my choice of wording was not completely accurate, allow me to rephrase: "No it doesn't, not on the 1st page she linked to on that site at any rate."

Happy now?


TARP was initiated in 2008.
Much was paid back in 2009.
The amount allowed was changed by Congress, and signed into law by the president in October 2010.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 8:36:50 AM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

That's too black and white.
No, not really. Cheaper doesn't mean affordable.
quote:

I think you, Suze, and Cheri are all going to different schools?
I don't know about their schools, they are comparable as far as I know, I've never heard of there being an appreciable difference between them in that regard. Mine is just high school upgrading, so its part of the public school system and costs $60 per term. Next year, however I will be going on to either community college <what I think you call Jr. College in the States> where the programs cost between $2000 and $6000 per term, or university where the tuition is $4000+ per term.So a basic BA would likely cost around $40,000, and anything more advanced would cost substantially more.

Suze is financing her education through scholarships, bursaries, her job and loans, while Cheri's parents are paying for hers.

In my case I simply will have to rely on loans, at least at first. I do have a slight advantage in that my uncles have promised to pitch in $1000 a term between them, and I don't have to pay rent and my upkeep as Hanners considers that her responsibility.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 8:39:02 AM   
samboct


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Status: offline 		Like many problems our country has- this one dates back to Ronnie Rayguns. I haven't looked at the breakdown in at least a decade, but when I did, the arithmetic was pretty simple...the cost of sending a kid to a decent college had largely paced inflation for several decades, and I suspect it still has. What's changed is where schools got their money from. Prior to Ronnie, tuition accounted for about 1/3rd the cost. Like roads, education was seen as something that was good for the country. Even if a liberal arts major couldn't make the individual economics for his/her education work, the country was enriched- sort of like funding for the arts. These days, tuition has to account for 2/3rds of the cost or more for private institutions and schools without massive endowments are in trouble. This has lead to them taking students who can pay for their education, but aren't as well qualified as some who need aid. Translation- there are a lot of kids who aren't getting the education they could really use, and others who are getting more than will probably help them in the long run. Plus- an overall correct perception that a lot of schools now have dumber graduates.

The trade schools that have sprung up are also a big part of the problem- I think in terms of loan defaults, the biggest chunk. These schools have been enabled by banks which should be punished for their loans- much in the same way that cigarette companies have gotten slammed.

Yes, there is personal responsibility for taking out a loan. But there is also a responsibility of a lender when they make you go through hoops supposedly to justify that their money is safe- in not having that process be a sham. They make money on these loans- dammit they should have to earn their money. The banks squawking that they're getting hit with defaults and then not allowing people to declare bankruptcy? That's ridiculous. Change the laws so that if you declare bankruptcy- your student loan is dealt with the same as any other debt. Let the damn banks actually earn their money and make sure not to loan it out so frivolously. This is really the same crap as the housing meltdown- too many liar loans which is very much a function of banking deregulation- the mantra pushed by Ronnie and the Republicans for decades.


Sam

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 9:17:57 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Change the laws so that if you declare bankruptcy- your student loan is dealt with the same as any other debt. Let the damn banks actually earn their money and make sure not to loan it out so frivolously. This is really the same crap as the housing meltdown- too many liar loans which is very much a function of banking deregulation- the mantra pushed by Ronnie and the Republicans for decades.

Agreed.  Except about the part where it's all Reagan's fault, anyway.

Firm


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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 9:21:47 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I think this is a bad idea: http://signon.org/sign/want-a-real-economic?source=mo&id=32074-19913921-QDa5Kxx

What does that teach about responsibility? That it's ok to incur 6 figures worth of debt and have it erased? You can generally color me liberal, but I think this is ridiculous.

(This petition is part of MoveOn.org's new initiative to let members create petitions and was not created by MoveOn itself.)


So bailing out the banks and auto companies teaches good responsibility? What am I missing

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 9:34:55 AM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

What am I missing
The banks make major campaign contributions.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 9:44:06 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		I might go look at a new Escalade this weekend. If all of this debt might be cancelled, I want something for free too.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/18/2011 9:44:25 AM   
samboct


Posts: 1817
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Status: offline 		Two additional points....

1) Banks do loan for intangibles- such as starting a business with few physical assets. So it's not necessarily a problem that an education is an intangible rather than a physical asset. However, why can someone whose business failed declare bankruptcy and start over whereas student loans follow you to the grave? Methinks that the banks thought that their customers would be as big a bunch of slimeballs as they are, and thought that people would take out loans with no intent of paying them back- not realizing that most people don't want to declare bankruptcy- it's an admission of failure.

2) One of the major problems in this discussion is the assumption that you can predict what majors will be in demand. As an example of someone who got a Ph.D. in chemistry with the intent of going to work in industry- only to discover that there were no jobs when I graduated, I hesitate to blame students for picking majors that interest them. The idea in college is often not learn a set of facts- it's to learn how to learn- and that can often best be taught with a subject that students find engaging whether it's English lit or mathematics.
I must admit, I find the idea of business majors to be something of a joke. The successful MBA programs are far more about networking than about content- hence why would a business major at an undegrad level be any different? The desire to make money should not be a major in college....Much as I hate to use GE as an example of anything positive, their executive grooming program often makes their people very valuable. The people that are generally accepted by GE for their executive fast track are far more likely to have a degree in English lit, rather than an MBA....


Sam

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