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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 7:31:22 AM

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I understand Lilly, but there is a history here, and it is a bit concerning.

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 7:35:41 AM

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there isn't really a pattern of anything, at least not that i've seen. i think this OP has some developmental issue that may make it more difficult for her to get her point across, but it's alarming how quick people are to judge someone so negatively just because they're doing something different.

i thought she wanted to find a way to wash up without water because they were going camping -- that's kinda standard. a lot of campgrounds have shower houses now, but if you just go pitch a tent in the woods, finding a way to clean off without using your limited packed-in water is a good idea.

and re: not using toothpaste, a lot of people get by just fine using baking soda to clean their teeth. she was asking about using baking soda, i thought, NOT about not brushing her teeth ever again. =p

now she wants to use a different kind of method to wash her hair (again, NOT talking about never washing it again)

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 10/27/2011 7:37:17 AM >

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 7:57:39 AM

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*agrees with Lilly*

ETA: TFTB doesnt always articulate well, and she is aware of that and still tries to.. but too many times folks do jump on her (I admit having done so myself.. for which I am sorry).

She's been here long enough that most of us should be used to it, and cut her a break, like we do with those who are ESL, or dyslexic, etc (excluding those that try to use those as an excuse to be total asshats).

gawd,, I'm sleepy..

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 10/27/2011 8:01:15 AM >

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 8:21:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

I understand Lilly, but there is a history here, and it is a bit concerning.

I'm with you. I understand there are developmental issues, but at some point you have to wonder whether or not those issues are effecting competency. Enough history has passed that it is concerning. It is starting to seem as though the OP needs someone who can help her navigate through life in the flesh, not on an internet message board.

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 10:02:17 AM

searching4mysir

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I try to live as "naturally" as possible. I eat organic fruits/veggies when I can and where it makes sense (i.e., if it has a peel that I'm throwing away I don't really care so much if it is organic) and I eat organic, pastured, grass-fed, grass-finished meats/poultry and wild fish when I can (it isn't always economically feasible for me and/or available). I also don't use hormonal birth control methods and I avoid antibiotics unless absolutely necessary. If I'm willing to do that for the things I ingest, why shouldn't I also be pretty careful about the things I put on my body that can be absorbed through the skin (which is the body's largest organ)? Does this mean I don't use deodorant? Of course not. Does this mean I don't wash my body or clean my teeth? Of course not. It merely means that I try to take everything into consideration when choosing products and make the best decisions for me.

It sounds to me like the OP is just trying to gather as much information as she can to make a good decision about specific types of products. Just because something has been around a long time doesn't mean it is automatically safe. It just means that there haven't been enough reported cases of it causing harm to pull it off the shelves. I see a lot of increases in cases of bad thyroids, infertility, autism, adhd/add, etc. to think there isn't anything environmental about it. Is it all environmental? No, but I'm a little crunchy granola about it and prefer to hedge my bets by living primally when I can.

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 10:38:52 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

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Because when I asked the question I didn't know that pantene allegedly tests on animals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

So why didn't you just say that in the first place and post it in the politics forum?

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 10:43:25 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

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Thank you for the recommendation, we have an Elliot's, they're a health food place, and we have Trader Joe's and we may have a few other whole foods and stuff that I don't know about because I don't explore most of our town.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

TFTB, if you have a Whole Foods near you, or any other kind of natural health place, you can find all kinds of natural shampoos and conditioners that don't have particular chemicals in them. t

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 10:47:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

Because when I asked the question I didn't know that pantene allegedly tests on animals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

So why didn't you just say that in the first place and post it in the politics forum?

Well if you don't want to use products that are tested on animals better start going through your entire house and throwing out the majority of everything you own

http://www.thevegetariansite.com/ethics_test.htm

It's quite a list. Good luck

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 10:52:02 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

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So have some cafine or go back to bed?

I was so sleepy Tuesday but I chose to get out of the house and go spend some time with some very lonely and needy shelter dogs, spent an hour on the ground petting them as best I could with only two hands and 6 dogs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

gawd,, I'm sleepy..

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 11:05:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

Thank you for the recommendation, we have an Elliot's, they're a health food place, and we have Trader Joe's and we may have a few other whole foods and stuff that I don't know about because I don't explore most of our town.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

TFTB, if you have a Whole Foods near you, or any other kind of natural health place, you can find all kinds of natural shampoos and conditioners that don't have particular chemicals in them. t

if you have a TJ's, their tea tree tingle shampoo is not tested on animals, and also doesn't contain MIT -- here are the ingredients --

quote:

aqua (purified water) with
*tea tree (melaleucs alternifolia) oil
*peppermint (mentha piperita) oil
*eucalyptus (eucayptus officinalis) oil
*rosemary (rosmarinus officinalis) oil
*nettle (urtica dionica) oil
*thyme (thymus vulgaris) oil
birch leaf (betula alba) oil
*chamomile (anthemis nobilis flower)
*clary (salvia sclarea)
*lavender (lavandula angustifolia)
*coltsfoot leaf (tussilago fargara)
*yarrow (achillea millefolium) oil
*mallow (malva sylvestris)
*horsetail (equisetum arvense) oil
*soybean protein (glycene soja)
C12-14 olefin sulfonate (coconut derived)
Cocamidopropyl Betane
Tocopherol (Vitamin E)
Trace Minerals
Citric Acid (Corn)
Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate
Sodium Chloride (Sea Salt)
Graperfruit Seed (Citrus Derived)

Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate is a preservative, an alternative to parabens (which have all sorts of possible side effects, including interfering with breast cancer drugs), and is generally considered non-irritating.

actually now that i've compared ingredients, i think i will actually try this out as a cheaper alternative to the KCCC that i normally get. it's so ridiculously expensive.
it has the same coconut-derived surfactants, and some other stuff that is great for stimulating hair follicles (rosemary, lavender, etc)

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 11:17:44 AM

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and avoiding animal-tested products isn't as hard as littlewonder's post sort of "alludes." while that list is long, there is an equally long list of products that are free of animal testing. they may not be as easily recognizable, brandwise, but they're there, and many are available at walmart and walgreens.
http://www.leapingbunny.org/shopsearch.php

Ecos, my new favorite laundry detergent is composed of a coconut-derived detergent, and lavender essential oil. i bought a huge bottle of it about two months ago, and stiiiillll have half the jug left. it comes from Sam's club, and is not animal tested.

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 12:35:30 PM

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quote:

The products that have been out for a long time are not going to be harmful. You want to save money, buy VO5 at the grocery store when it is on sale for $.66.

VO5 scores 5-8 (1 is best)

Pantene scores 1-8

I like my Avalon Organics Peppermint, although I am disappointed to see more crap in the new formulation. Glad I bought the old stuff in bulk.

Why should I be concerned about the safety of personal care products? Doesn't the government regulate them?

On average, consumers use about 10 personal care products containing 126 ingredients per day. The government does not require health studies or pre-market testing for these products. The Cosmetics Ingredients Review (CIR), the industry's self-policing safety panel, does not make up for FDA inaction. In 2007 EWG analysis found that over 30 years, the industry panel has reviewed the safety of just 13 percent of the 10,500 ingredients in personal care products.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 2:18:04 PM

TheFireWithinMe

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Lilly, I has questions, you have mail

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 3:37:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

if you have a TJ's, their tea tree tingle shampoo is not tested on animals, and also doesn't contain MIT -- here are the ingredients --

quote:

aqua (purified water) with
*tea tree (melaleucs alternifolia) oil
*peppermint (mentha piperita) oil
*eucalyptus (eucayptus officinalis) oil
*rosemary (rosmarinus officinalis) oil
*nettle (urtica dionica) oil
*thyme (thymus vulgaris) oil
birch leaf (betula alba) oil
*chamomile (anthemis nobilis flower)
*clary (salvia sclarea)
*lavender (lavandula angustifolia)
*coltsfoot leaf (tussilago fargara)
*yarrow (achillea millefolium) oil
*mallow (malva sylvestris)
*horsetail (equisetum arvense) oil
*soybean protein (glycene soja)
C12-14 olefin sulfonate (coconut derived)
Cocamidopropyl Betane
Tocopherol (Vitamin E)
Trace Minerals
Citric Acid (Corn)
Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate
Sodium Chloride (Sea Salt)
Graperfruit Seed (Citrus Derived)

Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate is a preservative, an alternative to parabens (which have all sorts of possible side effects, including interfering with breast cancer drugs), and is generally considered non-irritating.

actually now that i've compared ingredients, i think i will actually try this out as a cheaper alternative to the KCCC that i normally get. it's so ridiculously expensive.
it has the same coconut-derived surfactants, and some other stuff that is great for stimulating hair follicles (rosemary, lavender, etc)

Yeah, but some believe that Cocamidopropyl Betaine is linked to cancer and can be an irritant.

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 3:41:07 PM

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Just remember, 'not tested on animals' means tested on lower income humans [students, unemployed and pensioners'.
I *ask* for animal tested products: I'd rather a labrat got cancer than someone's daughter or granny.

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 3:48:11 PM

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i already mentioned that it's an eye irritant, and that yes, it is still a surfactant. some people choose to avoid detergents altogether, and if they do, then they should avoid it. but it's not the worst offender. and it can become carcinogenic (because of chemicals used in the processing) at high temps, but i think most shampoo and cleanser applications won't reach temperatures high enough to cause that.
it has been shown to be non-carcinogenic when applied to skin of lab animals, but i would imagine exposing it to higher heats than what would be used in shampooing would cause trace chemicals in it to become carcinogenic.

it's not a perfect ingredient, but it's better than SLS -- maybe one day, we'll discover something that works perfectly.

there's always Terressentials, a bentonite clay-based hair cleanser. totally free of detergents!

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 3:49:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

Just remember, 'not tested on animals' means tested on lower income humans [students, unemployed and pensioners'.
I *ask* for animal tested products: I'd rather a labrat got cancer than someone's daughter or granny.

not necessarily -- and half the time, info gained from animal tests has a "these results may not be applicable to humans" disclaimer, anyway. that's why there is STILL a round of human clinical testing.

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 6:31:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

It sounds to me like the OP is just trying to gather as much information as she can to make a good decision about specific types of products. Just because something has been around a long time doesn't mean it is automatically safe. It just means that there haven't been enough reported cases of it causing harm to pull it off the shelves. I see a lot of increases in cases of bad thyroids, infertility, autism, adhd/add, etc. to think there isn't anything environmental about it. Is it all environmental? No, but I'm a little crunchy granola about it and prefer to hedge my bets by living primally when I can.

Which with only a few months of history would be about what you would get. However, while you might choose to live as naturally as possible, you also appear to be capable of doing the research on your own.

See that bolded part? Well, guess what? The chemicals in those products HAVE been tested. You might not agree with the testing, and a bit of your post seems to indicate you lean a little toward the whole conspiracy of "vaccines cause autism" which means you aren't really that good at reading and understanding studies and statistics.

The point is that if you are going to believe everything you read off the internet, you might as well use the Enquirer as your basic news source. The OP regularly asks questions that the correct information is available, yet she doesn't look for it. Eventually that becomes a bit tiresome. It isn't like she is saying that she read this article, looked around and found others and is asking how to determine which to believe. It is a regular occurance to read something or want to know something and instead of trying to find the answer, simply coming here and posting. That either indicates a lack of competence or complete laziness. If the former, then someone in her life should be helping her with living skills and taking care of those things. If the latter, well, obviously the boards are here to offer advice and thoughts but not to help you keep your life in order.

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 6:39:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

The products that have been out for a long time are not going to be harmful. You want to save money, buy VO5 at the grocery store when it is on sale for $.66.

VO5 scores 5-8 (1 is best)

Pantene scores 1-8

I like my Avalon Organics Peppermint, although I am disappointed to see more crap in the new formulation. Glad I bought the old stuff in bulk.

Why should I be concerned about the safety of personal care products? Doesn't the government regulate them?

On average, consumers use about 10 personal care products containing 126 ingredients per day. The government does not require health studies or pre-market testing for these products. The Cosmetics Ingredients Review (CIR), the industry's self-policing safety panel, does not make up for FDA inaction. In 2007 EWG analysis found that over 30 years, the industry panel has reviewed the safety of just 13 percent of the 10,500 ingredients in personal care products.

However, the chemicals used HAVE been tested and there are what are considered "safe" concentrations. Plenty of beauty products have been taken off the market or had advisories made against their use. The latest salon straightening products jump to mind. It has been pretty clearly determined that while the product is "relatively" safe for the consumer, it isn't safe for the stylist.

Personally, my VO5 is my "emergency" ran out of the good stuff shampoo and conditioner. I admit that I need to use 2-3 times as much VO5 as with my regular, better quality products. But come the end of the month, when I'm flat broke and still need to wash my hair, I do what I have to.

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RE: Is it true that that several shampoos contain a ner... - 10/27/2011 8:19:52 PM

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Since testing is not mandatory, how can you say that everything has been tested?

< Message edited by kalikshama -- 10/27/2011 8:22:22 PM >

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

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