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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/21/2011 9:05:54 PM

Rule

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I recommend not to use anti-depressants: they may be strongly addictive.

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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/21/2011 9:42:27 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Duskypearls

LayfayetteLady, have you considered peripheral neuropathy/polyneuropathy as a possibility, aside from what else may or may not be going on in the joints?

Do you mean for me personally or for the OP?

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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/21/2011 9:42:32 PM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: gorgeoushair

Over the last few days, having lots of problems with pain. Could not stand up for more than an hour to work on a painting, where I had just a few days ago. Taking Tramadol. Doesn't seem to be working. Can't take the usual heavy duty pain killers, they either make me itch or nauseous. It is very wearing. Tried Neruontin for a bit, did not seem to work. Had a pain consult at the Mayo when I was there. Doc recommended a local pain doctor with whom he trained...trying to get that contact up and going. Also considering accupuncture...only real obstacle there is money. The beat goes on...with difficulty.

@ Lockit, et al, what is Green Magma and where do you get it?

Thnaks ...

Tramadol is not really for pain. It helps with sleep or is supposed to. It is not uncommon to have opiate pain relievers cause itching. I know if they give me codiene I scratch like a meth addict. Not fun. The "heavy duty" painkillers tend to be Oxycodone (which is Percocet). For the swelling and joint pain, you have things like Celebrex and Voltarin, which should not cause itching, they are anti-inflammatories.

Have they started you are anti-depressants? Because really, they are going to be helpful in getting your stress levels evened out. You never said...have you tried elevating your feet? What happens?

Tramadol is worthless to me for analgesia. Codeine gives me slight "itchies" too, as does morphine (codeine partially metabolizes to morphine).

My preference for analgesia is oxycodone. It has the fewest side effects of all that I've tried. I've never had oral dilaudid; IV dilaudid feels TOO good, so I should probably avoid dillies. (BTW, hydrocodone (Vicodin/Lortab) is a prodrug; it's metabolized to hydromorphone (dilaudid)) (oxycodone partially metabolizes to oxymorphone (Opana), and heroin (also a prodrug) converts to morphine).

So anyway, antidepressants are often prescribed, as has been mentioned, for pain management. I have found, also, that watching good comedies, like those old Tony Curtis/Cary Grant/Rock Hudson/Doris Day/ etc. films, can help to lower my stress levels as well as distract me from the pain. I swear by 'em. Problem with being on a raw vegan diet is you have to forego popcorn. I suppose you could cheat a little. Dark chocolate is also, I think, vegan. Chocolate is good for almost everything.

So comedies and chocolate. That's my Rx.

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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/21/2011 9:44:33 PM

LafayetteLady

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Good grief. With proper use they aren't going to be addictive. Neither are most medications for that matter going to be addictive and cause problems. Talk to some pain management doctors about reality instead of naturalistic, never use chemical medication people for facts.

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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/21/2011 9:53:18 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Tramadol is worthless to me for analgesia. Codeine gives me slight "itchies" too, as does morphine (codeine partially metabolizes to morphine).

Not kidding. Codeine will make me itch like a meth head. I have scratched myself bloody.

quote:

My preference for analgesia is oxycodone. It has the fewest side effects of all that I've tried. I've never had oral dilaudid; IV dilaudid feels TOO good, so I should probably avoid dillies. (BTW, hydrocodone (Vicodin/Lortab) is a prodrug; it's metabolized to hydromorphone (dilaudid)) (oxycodone partially metabolizes to oxymorphone (Opana), and heroin (also a prodrug) converts to morphine).

Hit the ER with a kidney stone attack and ALL you want is the feel good of dilaudid, lol. I just have no use for them to send me home with a script for the pill form. When I was able to see a pain management doctor, we finally settled on straight oxycodone (no acetiminiphen or ibuprofin added) at 15mg every 4 hours. Yep, major chronic pain issues.

quote:

So anyway, antidepressants are often prescribed, as has been mentioned, for pain management. I have found, also, that watching good comedies, like those old Tony Curtis/Cary Grant/Rock Hudson/Doris Day/ etc. films, can help to lower my stress levels as well as distract me from the pain. I swear by 'em. Problem with being on a raw vegan diet is you have to forego popcorn. I suppose you could cheat a little. Dark chocolate is also, I think, vegan. Chocolate is good for almost everything.

So comedies and chocolate. That's my Rx.

Anti-depressents get prescribed in pain management not because it stops the pain, but helps with the depression that comes from having chronic pain day in and day out, which of course escalates the pain, which escalates the depression, etc. A vicious cycle it is. Of course, I have had an anti-depressant which caused hallucinations in the past and well, I gotta tell ya, THAT shit did NOTHING for my depression or stress other than raise it, lol.

Comedies and chocolate though can solve a myriad of problems!

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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/21/2011 10:41:34 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Good grief. With proper use they aren't going to be addictive. Neither are most medications for that matter going to be addictive and cause problems. Talk to some pain management doctors about reality instead of naturalistic, never use chemical medication people for facts.

At least one anti-depressant has secondary metabolites that cause depression.

So:
Depression 1 -> take antidepressant
Stop with antidepressant -> depression 2 caused by the secondary metabolites
Depression 2 -> take the antidepressant again
Ad infinitum

By addictive I mean this endless cycle.

In general (though not in every case) it is best to try to run away as fast as one can when one sees a physician. Them guys are bad for your health, especially when they in their divine status start to proscribe medication. Often it is best to lick your wounds.

I reiterate my recommendation for chronic diseases: I recommend three to four liters of plain yoghurt per day, plus plain vitamin C tablets. If necessary add some salt to the yoghurt because people do need salt.

Infrequently - say once or twice a week - eat some potato's (not all species are safe). For vegetables: chicory and onions are safe. Infrequently also have a bit of plain meat - say once a week. Also once a week a couple of eggs. That is as much variety as I can offer.

Once a week or once a month have one multivitamin tablet. Vitamins are essential for human life, but in the case of these diseases it is better to be a little short on them than to have too much of them.

If it does not work, it will not harm one either.

ETA: Do not eat anything except what I recommended above. If one does, it will cause a setback of two weeks. Avoid sweets, candy, fruits, additives at all cost.

I strongly advise people with chronic diseases to not ever eat chocolate. I have noticed that my heart weakens when I do, and the last couple of times it caused a bleeding wound in my guts - and when the gut is hurt, it stops doing what it does; not being able to defecate for a week while the gut heals, or shitting blood when you do, ain't funny.

Feel good foods often cause and exacerbate the very problem that they aim to address. Distrust feel good foods. Distrust anything that you feel a craving for, for most likely it is not only you who craves after that food, but even more so the disease that craves that food. Do not eat chocolate nor any other sweets.

< Message edited by Rule -- 11/21/2011 11:14:05 PM >

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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/21/2011 10:45:12 PM

Duskypearls

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: Duskypearls

LayfayetteLady, have you considered peripheral neuropathy/polyneuropathy as a possibility, aside from what else may or may not be going on in the joints?

Do you mean for me personally or for the OP?

You're right, my dear, I meant the OP, gorgeous hair. My apologies.

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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/22/2011 4:00:38 AM

TheFireWithinMe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

You are so right angelikaJ.

Might be because at the moment I am in need of both, a sleep aid AND a pain reliever!

Tramadol isn't a controlled substance though, is it?

At any rate, now that you made me think about which is which. I have had Tramadol injected in an IV. Not such a horrible choice. Pill form? Useless to me. Same thing with Dilaudid. Injected in an IV? Lovely. In a pill? Total waste.

I don't think Tramadol is a controlled substance, because (at least here) my doctor is able to prescribe refills. I've never had the IV version of either Tramacet (Tramadol with tylenol) or Dilaudid but the pill versions of both have done little for my pain aside from making me drowsy so I can sleep.

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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/22/2011 5:42:09 AM

kalikshama

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I like Tramadol because it is mild enough to take during the day. It does make me a little drowsy, but not like other pain killers. My Rx is only for 50 mg, and I only take it every few months, so have no fears of addiction.

quote:

Tramadol isn't a controlled substance though, is it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol

It is apparent in community practice that dependence to this agent may occur after as little as three months of use at the maximum dose—generally depicted at 400 mg per day. However, this dependence liability is considered relatively low by health authorities, such that tramadol is classified as a Schedule 4 Prescription Only Medicine in Australia, and been rescheduled in Sweden rather than as a Schedule 8 Controlled Drug like opioids.[40] Similarly, tramadol is not currently scheduled by the U.S. DEA, unlike opioid analgesics. It is, however, scheduled in certain states.

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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/22/2011 9:34:54 AM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheFireWithinMe

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I don't think Tramadol is a controlled substance, because (at least here) my doctor is able to prescribe refills. I've never had the IV version of either Tramacet (Tramadol with tylenol) or Dilaudid but the pill versions of both have done little for my pain aside from making me drowsy so I can sleep.

IV of Tramadol for pain relief, I would give 6 to. It will lessen the pain, give you a very mild "woo hoo" feeling and for the lucky, help them sleep. Dilaudid in pill form, might was well give me a piece of candy for all it does. IV form, it will attack the pain, but no longer makes me fall asleep. I am one of those people who develops resistence pretty quickly. It sucks.

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 11/22/2011 10:26:11 AM >

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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/22/2011 11:05:37 AM

Duskypearls

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheFireWithinMe

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

You are so right angelikaJ.

Might be because at the moment I am in need of both, a sleep aid AND a pain reliever!

Tramadol isn't a controlled substance though, is it?

At any rate, now that you made me think about which is which. I have had Tramadol injected in an IV. Not such a horrible choice. Pill form? Useless to me. Same thing with Dilaudid. Injected in an IV? Lovely. In a pill? Total waste.

I don't think Tramadol is a controlled substance, because (at least here) my doctor is able to prescribe refills. I've never had the IV version of either Tramacet (Tramadol with tylenol) or Dilaudid but the pill versions of both have done little for my pain aside from making me drowsy so I can sleep.

You are correct, Tramadol is a prescription medication, and not a controlled substance at the federal level, but some states do classify it as such, as it works through a morphine-like activity. It is a synthetic opioid analog of codeine, that binds to opioid receptors, and although often subject to abuse, tends not to be as addictive in nature as some of the other opiates are. Codeine is a Class 5 scheduled drug, and not as addictive as morphine, which is a Class 2.

< Message edited by Duskypearls -- 11/22/2011 11:11:40 AM >

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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/22/2011 1:59:58 PM

TheFireWithinMe

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quote:

You are correct, Tramadol is a prescription medication, and not a controlled substance at the federal level, but some states do classify it as such, as it works through a morphine-like activity. It is a synthetic opioid analog of codeine, that binds to opioid receptors, and although often subject to abuse, tends not to be as addictive in nature as some of the other opiates are. Codeine is a Class 5 scheduled drug, and not as addictive as morphine, which is a Class 2.

That's what I like about it, I can take it for a few months (say winter) and then when my pain lessens in the spring/summer stop taking it without withdrawal symptoms. Unfortunately it doesn't work for my thumb pain at all although if I take 1 1/2 in the evening at least I sleep.

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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/22/2011 2:27:29 PM

Duskypearls

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheFireWithinMe

quote:

You are correct, Tramadol is a prescription medication, and not a controlled substance at the federal level, but some states do classify it as such, as it works through a morphine-like activity. It is a synthetic opioid analog of codeine, that binds to opioid receptors, and although often subject to abuse, tends not to be as addictive in nature as some of the other opiates are. Codeine is a Class 5 scheduled drug, and not as addictive as morphine, which is a Class 2.

That's what I like about it, I can take it for a few months (say winter) and then when my pain lessens in the spring/summer stop taking it without withdrawal symptoms. Unfortunately it doesn't work for my thumb pain at all although if I take 1 1/2 in the evening at least I sleep.

What is your thumb pain from dear?

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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/22/2011 2:35:39 PM

TheFireWithinMe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Duskypearls

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheFireWithinMe

quote:

You are correct, Tramadol is a prescription medication, and not a controlled substance at the federal level, but some states do classify it as such, as it works through a morphine-like activity. It is a synthetic opioid analog of codeine, that binds to opioid receptors, and although often subject to abuse, tends not to be as addictive in nature as some of the other opiates are. Codeine is a Class 5 scheduled drug, and not as addictive as morphine, which is a Class 2.

That's what I like about it, I can take it for a few months (say winter) and then when my pain lessens in the spring/summer stop taking it without withdrawal symptoms. Unfortunately it doesn't work for my thumb pain at all although if I take 1 1/2 in the evening at least I sleep.

What is your thumb pain from dear?

Started as a trigger finger. The first cortisone shot released the trigger (sort of) but did nothing for my pain; same with the second and third shots. Having surgery in April meantime I basically type lefthanded.

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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/22/2011 4:48:28 PM

WinsomeDefiance

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I hope you find some relief GH, I know how frustrating and upsetting it can be to undergo so many tests and have no definitive answers. Been there, done that and redid that and retried it again and so on and so on.

Even now, after being diagnosed with a few connective tissue diseases, most of my symptoms and tests are atypical and baffle the good doctors. Now, we just treat the symptoms and I've found that helps the best.

What I post next, is what I've found sometimes works for me. Even our best attempts to do the right thing, won't always work when our bodies betray us this way. Take what you can use, leave the rest.

I typically keep a dose of Benedryl or Clariton daily and maintain a level of anti-inflammatories in my system. One thing I've found is allergen triggers (although I've been tested for allergies and don't seem to have any) are one of the leading causes of my auto-immune responses. I prefer vinyl/wood floors to carpets, and stay away from known triggers like being around people who smoke. When the pain and swelling (and ohhh so many other problems) worsen or return, I will get back on a series of steroid treatments (usually Prednisone) and most of my symptoms disapear or at least lesson (rash on the face, ulcers in the mouth, swelling, high blood pressure, kidney pain etc.) I also try to keep as busy as possible, without tiring myself out. When my body says it needs rest, I rest.

To sum it up, what works for me:

Allergy meds, to prevent allergen triggers
Maintain a level of Anti-inflammatory meds like Ibuprofen in my system.
Avoid allergen triggers like dust, cigarette smoke
Clean living environment
Activity within reason that doesn't over tax
Rest when my body tells me to
Get the stronger stuff when my diseases require it

Because I live with chronic pain, (I can count on my fingers, the actual # of days I"ve been pain free in the last 20 years) I tend to avoid using narcotics. When the pain is too great, I will take them, but I won't keep more than a 10 day supply on hand. Drug addiction hasn't been a problem for me, I've never had to suffer through withdrawal or anything, but I have enough to deal with as it is, without adding that to the list. So, I'm very cautious about taking anything addictive at all. I'm always concerned when I hear from my friends just how many different narcotics they take at any given time. Besides which, narcotics don't even do much for me at all to relieve the pain. I've taken IV narcotics that barely dulled the pain at all, so meh.

Also, for a while, Cymbalta really did help with the pain. My body quickly becomes resistant to most medications, but the best I felt in decades (not counting the times I'm on Prednisone) was when I was taking Cymbalta.

Hope you feel better soon.

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RE: Unable to Diagnose Pain Stiffness Swelling - 11/22/2011 4:54:52 PM

Duskypearls

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The middle finger on both my hands are "Trigger Fingers," however mine don't cause swelling/inflammation. Maybe that means it's more a case of Dupuytren's contracture. I dunno. They do hurt, and get stuck in contracture, and the older I get, the more the resist getting/being straightened out. I guess my days of flipping the bird are limited!

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