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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/7/2011 3:20:23 PM   
littlewonder


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Thank you everyone for your advice. It was much appreciated and I will try to do more of the relaxation techniques but my dr just called in a new script for me...trazadone...ugh. My daughter was on this for awhile and it made her into a zombie. Sigh. I did ask the dr for a low dosage though because of my experiences with this with my daughter. I know this stuff will knock me out cold. I just don't know if I'm gonna like the way it makes me feel.

Yay fucking yay. Not sure which is worse....not sleeping at all or being a zombie.

Oh what I wouldn't give to be normal again without chemical dependency.



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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/7/2011 3:25:37 PM   
TheFireWithinMe


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Before you try trazadone, ask for Nynol. It's an over the counter med so the pharmacist should have it right there. It works awesome good when I have insomnia and I don't feel like a zombie the next day.

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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/7/2011 3:31:28 PM   
kalikshama


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Trazadone made me feel hungover. The doctor prescribed it after Prozac gave me anxiety attacks. >_< Now I take neither.

I think Mom takes Trazadone occasionally.

If you've never tried the sub-lingual melatonin, please do consider it. The tablet form doesn't work for me, but the sub-lingual puts me right out while I'm reading. The link I provided earlier was for a bottle of 300, but you can get 100 count bottles at health food stores for less than $10.

I'm glad the Kindle has an auto shut-off - no more losing my place! Unfortunately, I have to be very careful how I hold it, as I have the big Kindle and it hits me in the nose if I drop it forward when I fall asleep.

The first part of Stephen King's "Insomnia" is very slow paced and great for falling asleep.

How about reading non-fiction to help you shut off your brain?




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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/7/2011 4:13:04 PM   
MistressDarkArt


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LW-I can't believe I forgot to put this in my post.

Your position can have a lot to do with falling asleep. An easy-to-do restorative yoga technique is this: lie on your right side for about 15 minutes. Put a pillow behind your back along your spine, one between your knees and one in front to support your arms. The pillow along your back is especially important because supporting your spine even a little bit sends the message to your brain everything is properly supported for sleep and it can chill now. I use a heating pad between the back pillow and me. Let your brain spin as much as it wants to while on your right side. Then turn over onto your left side, readjust your pillows/heating pad and get comfortable again. Most people find their thought process slows considerably and they are able to relax.

This works because lying on your right side activates your brain, left side quiets it. The heating pad is just pure luxury, but ever since I started doing it I've come to equate heat on my back as the cue it's OK to let go and sleep. I take that heating pad with me everywhere when I'm traveling, as well as the mountain of pillows it takes to feel properly supported so my body's completely comfortable. The nice thing is once I learned about proper support in bed, I don't toss and turn all night trying to get comfortable or wake up with back/neck/hip aches like I used to.

This may not help enough to do completely without chemical intervention, but it certainly adds to your relaxation whether medicated or not. Hopefully in time it would be enough to let you sleep well on your own. My personal feeling is use everything at your disposal, even if it has to be medication too. Sleep is just too damn important to do without.

< Message edited by MistressDarkArt -- 11/7/2011 4:14:47 PM >

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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/7/2011 4:56:22 PM   
LafayetteLady


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With the clinical depression and the chronic insomnia it sounds like you have a lot of trouble shutting down your mind. I know that is my problem with insomnia most times. I can be exhausted, but the second I lie down, I end up thinking about everything. The quietness just lets all those thoughts in. I have tried sleeping with the television or music on at a very low volume. Then the words get my attention, lol. So try something strictly instrumental.

With the herbals, you should try taking them throughout the day. Like the Valerian, or the Passion Flower or Lemon Balm. If you are that wound up, these might help keep you at an even keel all day and allow you to sleep.

I tried the trazadone. For me, not only did it take massive doses to make me sleep, it also made my sinuses swell (weird?) so I had to take benedryl with it (sorry Aswad), othewise I would start having panic attacks about not being able to breath. So not worth it.

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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/7/2011 5:57:16 PM   
littlewonder


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thanks everyone. Just got back from the pharmacy and as soon as Master gets home I'll take the trazadone and see if it works or not. I don't like to try new meds without him being here, especially sleeping pills, ever since the bad reactions I had with ambien. I just don't trust myself otherwise.

LafayetteLady, that's exactly my problem. I don't have a tv or anything else in my bedroom for just that reason. I have tried occasionally sleeping with the tv on but then it distracts me. I try to sleep without sound or light and it's too quiet. I've tried sleeping with white noise or sounds like rainstorms which work sometimes but not often enough and rarely lately.

I used to be able to fall asleep easily with Master beside me but even that has stopped working. My dr also thinks I may be starting premenopause as well so that could be a part of the problem but the depression is the major problem.

Getting old sucks. Thank you all for your views and ideas. They do help and I will probably try some of them since I have no desire to be stuck on these meds forever. I absolutely hate being dependent on them. I just wanted to hear of other people's experiences with such things. I've read so many things online but they're all so conflicting and varied so I thought maybe I could get some more insight here. It was helpful.



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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/7/2011 7:07:19 PM   
LafayetteLady


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I had a feeling that was what was going on. It just sounded too familiar. On a weekend (or other time you don't have to work), try drinking those herbal teas. Mix it up for a variety and see how they make you feel. I wish I could tell you something good would happen with them, but if your mind isn't stopping when you go to bed, I doubt they will.

Best thing I can suggest at this point is to kind of "meditate" when you go to bed. Whether it is remembering something very happy and going over it in your mind, or thinking of a wonderful place (the beach, the forest, whatever floats your boat), and REALLY focusing on that thing, not allowing other thoughts to interfere.

I have done that. How often has it worked? Less than 50% of the time to be honest, but I'm thinking at this point, if you can get something to work one night, that's one night of sleep you have gained, right?

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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/7/2011 7:10:28 PM   
littlewonder


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That I agree...even one night is a success to me lol. I take it one day at a time and I'm happy when I wake up and don't feel exhausted and I can actually enjoy the day.



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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/8/2011 10:20:14 AM   
DeviantlyD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheFireWithinMe

Before you try trazadone, ask for Nynol. It's an over the counter med so the pharmacist should have it right there. It works awesome good when I have insomnia and I don't feel like a zombie the next day.


Hee hee! I think she meant Nytol. ;)

Its active ingredient is diphenhydramine, the same as in Benadryl.

OP: I wish I could offer some words of wisdom beyond those provided from some here, but I've had my own bouts of unsolved insomnia. Although valerian doesn't make me sleepy, it does have a tendency to help calm my racing mind, which is often the key problem. I'm also exploring meditation, as others have suggested. So you can add me to the column of advocates in that regard. Good luck!!


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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/8/2011 12:41:29 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

That I agree...even one night is a success to me lol. I take it one day at a time and I'm happy when I wake up and don't feel exhausted and I can actually enjoy the day.




So how did it go with the Trazadone?  Did you at least get some sleep?

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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/8/2011 5:37:19 PM   
littlewonder


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well...the trazadone has been one hell of an experience and I don't think I'll be taking it again. I took it last night. It didn't really do much except make me feel really relaxed. I eventually fell asleep though but then I couldn't wake up this morning and I've slept the entire day, having to miss my cisco class tonight. When I did wake up I'm still feeling extremely sick...huge giant headache, weakness, feeling like I have a hangover.

This is not something I can deal with. So a call into the doc AGAIN...ggrr. I'm about ready to just give up altogether on the sleeping pill thing and just deal with finding some other way to fall asleep.

This is all just getting to be too much for me.


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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/8/2011 5:41:50 PM   
TheFireWithinMe


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oh phooey! That's too bad. What about trying half the dose?

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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/8/2011 5:45:45 PM   
littlewonder


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the way I'm feeling right now I don't even wanna deal with half a dose. OMG, I haven't felt this ill since I had the flu about 3 years ago.

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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/8/2011 5:48:56 PM   
TheFireWithinMe


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Awwww I'm sorry, I know you were hoping it would work.

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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/8/2011 6:09:56 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Al-Aswad is correct - Restoril is meant for short term insomnia management and as benzos are highly addictive, no responsible doctor should prescribe them for long term use without first considering sleep hygiene.


Actually, I wasn't thinking about addiction. It just isn't the best treatment, that's all.

Concerns about addiction are a real obstacle to good treatment in some cases, as I've painful and costly experiences with. I'm sympathetic to the issues, having almost lost two close friends, and having been solicited by a relative out to finance her next hit and too far out to recognize me until she was right in front of me. But I am skeptical of the idea of treatment being withheld on statistical grounds. On individual grounds, sure. As a consequence of others' abuses, no.

For that matter, in my experience, some doctors have a poor understanding of the mechanics of addiction, or the difference between addiction, dependence and the various other related concepts. Many fail to give the patient an understanding of same. Just something as simple as reminding the recipient of an ad lib dosed scrip that it is important to keep track of the use, and to review it periodically, can make a substantial difference. I've run into many patients who haven't realized that threshold shift is a major factor, even well after they've crossed the line into the land of downward spiralling interactions between tolerance buildup and threshold shifting. Explaining that it's important not to derive a comfortable state from drugs when one is ill would have gone a long way with those.

I was aware of that, so when I started having panic attacks, I set the first rule for myself right away: I would not reach for the pillbox if it mattered to me whether that was the last one I'd ever get. If I could weigh the future against the present, it wasn't bad enough. The second rule was to not reach for it if I could function under duress. If I could be there for my loved ones, it wasn't bad enough. My tolerance was to go up, not down, and the pills were there to limit the collateral damage of building that tolerance, much as good physical therapy will put just as much strain on your body as will rehabilitate it, no more and no less. The rest were the same rules as for the insomnia, which is from the Parnate. As a result, I had a brief increase when the attacks started, and my use has declined steadily since then; it never reached the per-patient average. Despite flunitrazepam being one of the most strictly regulated drugs in Norway (every scrip is audited, there are random controls of the docs, and docs exceeding the national average get an inquiry), even the substitute doc doesn't have a problem refilling the scrip, and I'm the one asking them to make it the smallest package, because I want my journal to document my use for the doctor's benefit in case there should be any hassle with the supervisory authority.

I tend to think that's a good use of an admittedly double edged sword.

And it's sad to think how the tolerance and rebound issues could have spiralled out of control in a situation where neither the doctor, nor the patient, is sufficiently aware of the need to retain patient tolerance (while also realizing there's a point where one must treat to confine the scope of a problem or provide worthwhile quality of life). Doesn't need to be any addiction in there for it to go horribly wrong. And with most of the docs I've been to, it would have, if I didn't know these things already. I've seen plenty back pain cases end up that way, and when one explains it, they're usually quite able to understand, and eager to regain the sense of stability that comes with striking a balance that has long term sustainability. They just didn't grasp things until they were pointed out. Being ill isn't comfortable, and no non-curative drug makes it comfortable to be ill in the long term, just less uncomfortable, that's fairly simple and common sense (it's also a gross simplification, but it's as accurate as it needs to be).

My long-winded point being that a responsible doc shouldn't treat addiction any differently from other concerns they deal with on a day to day basis (e.g. don't give renally excreted drugs to renally impaired patients without explaining what to look out for as an early warning it isn't going well), and that taking a quick peek beyond the surface symptom presentation (they're getting better at this, I'm noticing) will often provide other treatment options that have more long-term viability (e.g. sleep hygiene for the OP, which will usually fix the problem).

quote:

I have travel anxiety and take a Xanax the night before I fly. My doctor prescribes them to me 5 at a time. Neither of us are opposed to benzos, we are just very conservative as to their use.


I'm praɡmatic about it. I think patients need to be patient and have (or get) perspective, and that doctors need to be disciplined about considering the options without prejudice and an eye to being healers instead of bioproblemsolvers (i.e. don't hold back on killing a significant insomnia, but make sure sleep hygiene is in order, and don't treat normal occasional sleepless nights unless it's a one time thing to patch someone up the night before a once in a lifetime event), as well as having the integrity to only practice in a way that is in line with the ideals and demands of the job, even if that means losing business.

It's clear most doctors do the right thing, but there are hotspots (e.g. one hospital has like twice the WHO reference rate of C-sections) and bad apples (e.g. docs that prescribe valium when they should be saying "you're not cut out for that job, and I'm not going to be part of letting drugs pad the difference"). It's also clear there are a lot of patients, perhaps even most (I'm not a doc, so I couldn't say, but my medical professional acquaintances lend credence to "a lot" being more accurate than "most"), that are willing to comply with treatment, and who understand the role of a doctor as a caretaker of anomalies pertaining to their health, not a go-to person for comfortable living and increased performance.

Note that I'm not, in principle, opposed to using drugs for performance enhancement and comfortable living. I actually support transhumanism. But as to the current role of a doctor, the established ideals of what it is to be a doctor, and the tradition they come from, and the available capacity, and the epidemological concerns, all point to the simple conclusion that it is a character flaw which lies at the root of a doctor stepping outside that role in most cases. And those that do, rarely seem to be equipped to practice from a perspective of transhumanism, or be biofunction engineers, nor do they seem to bill themselves as such. There are exceptions, and those I can of course support, except if they have taken oaths to the contrary (the medical profession being, after all, widely infected with the memetic virus known as the Hippocratic Oath, which essentially means that medical knowledge obtained without being infected by it has come from an oathbreaker at some point, and usually not one that has taken up arms against the infection, so hardly a point of pride).

And, in case it's not clear, since there's a bit of criticism baked in this post, I have great respect and appreciation for the medical profession and its practicioners.

My apologies for the somewhat off-topic verbosity.

Health,
al-Aswad.

P.S.: This post should not be interpreted as implying anything about specific individuals in the medical profession, beyond anything stated explicitly.



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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/8/2011 6:30:26 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

well...the trazadone has been one hell of an experience and I don't think I'll be taking it again. I took it last night. It didn't really do much except make me feel really relaxed. I eventually fell asleep though but then I couldn't wake up this morning and I've slept the entire day, having to miss my cisco class tonight. When I did wake up I'm still feeling extremely sick...huge giant headache, weakness, feeling like I have a hangover.

This is not something I can deal with. So a call into the doc AGAIN...ggrr. I'm about ready to just give up altogether on the sleeping pill thing and just deal with finding some other way to fall asleep.

This is all just getting to be too much for me.



I'm really sorry to hear that. I've had medications do that to me and it is a really sucky feeling. I just went back on my diabetes and fibromyalgia meds and have been sick to my stomach most of the day, so I can really sympathize. Of course, my sleeping is totally abnormal as well.

Definately do not try the half doze of trazadone. Most likely, your doctor prescribed a very low dose and you already had a bad reaction.

I know it probably sounds simplistic, but what about Valium, Lorazepam (Ativan) or Xanax? They all tend to quiet the mind, which seems to be your biggest obstacle to sleep.

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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/8/2011 6:37:23 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

And yeah...I follow all those rules of hygiene. It doesn't matter. I still don't sleep.


By all means, do switch meds if it's not working for you. I'm not opposed to sleep meds; I use them myself.

Just trying to help, since I've not been in on the conference, has she been over things like making sure the bedroom is only ever used for sleep and sex, going to bed in the same manner each time, catching some sunlight shortly after you wake up, avoiding excessive indoor lighting in the evenings, getting off the computer a few hours before going to bed, daydreaming while waiting for sleep, the utility of masturbation in inducing fatigue (assuming the meds let you get off), activities to "gear down" your head, etc.?

If so, she's probably covered it quite well, and I can only wish you good luck in finding a better sleep aid.

Toward that end, I would recommend looking into melatonin taken about 12 hours prior to the time you wish to wake up, as it helps reentrain the rhythm, a useful adjunct to other treatment, which after all aims to do just that. Upping the dose is not the solution, as a rule, if a lower dose doesn't give partial relief, but if you're going to try, let a day pass without it before you do (maximizes sensitivity). Assuming it goes with your other meds, it has been my experience that there is more of a sleep inducing effect with nitrazepam (not to be confused with flunitrazepam, which is rarely used anymore, and has more of a 'quiet the racing mind' effect, at least for me, though still sleep inducing as well) than others I've tried. Meprobamate is an unconventional choice worth trying; a fast onset, short acting barbiturate that can be used for short periods at lower doses than those required to put you to sleep, in which case its action resembles a benzo more, in causing sedation and relaxation. It doesn't generally give a hangover. If you're not in an unfortunate group of people who metabolize it differently, carisoprodol is effectively speaking just a slow release form of meprobamate (a prodrug) that thus has a gentler onset and less risk of rebound insomnia, but it has taken a fair bit of flak lately, due to extensive abuse (including people mixing it with alcohol). Thus, some docs will be a bit skeptical of its use, and less so of meprobamate itself.

Those are just some thoughts. I used to have half a clue about this, but haven't kept in practice, so all the usual disclaimers go double ("a little knowledge" and all that). If the doc thinks it's a good idea, those might be good starting points to figuring out the nature of your response and what kind of "buttons" need to be pushed to have the right effect on you. For instance, I respond well to drugs that make my mind more still, and less so to those that make me sleepy, while a friend of mine gains no benefit from a still mind, and only a little from being made sleepy, but does have substantial benefit from becoming tired. Pay attention to what the Restoril does and doesn't do, and it may help your doc find the right med.

If she didn't cover the points I mentioned earlier, I can go through some of the material from my sleep doc and see if anything there might be useful. It's a pretty wide field to play in, the establishment of a proper frame of mind for sleep. Off the cuff, since someone mentioned yoga, I would definitely try a relaxing massage, but my favorite is a trip to the countryside; change of scenery, fresh air and a bit of inner tranquility that does something for me. Your mileage will vary.

I know all too well the distress of not being able to sleep properly, so I do hope this works out for you.

Edited to add: Trazodone... ugh... you may want to suggest she lay off the tricyclics in general.

Health,
al-Aswad.


< Message edited by Aswad -- 11/8/2011 6:45:01 PM >


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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/8/2011 6:37:42 PM   
littlewonder


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Thanks for the sympathies.

I've tried ativan....won't do that one again anytime soon either. It made me feel like a zombie. I will see what the doc suggests when she calls me back probably tomorrow. We'll probably discuss a range of different drugs or therapies. I have a feeling she's getting a little frustrated with me and I have this gut feeling that she really has no desire to prescribe me with anything else until I get a fuller workup with another dr that I have to see tomorrow. I was supposed to go today but couldn't even make it out of bed.

I don't think I'm taking anything tonight. I just wanna get these other drugs outta my system so I can feel human again.



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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/8/2011 6:51:38 PM   
Aynne88


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Thanks for the sympathies.

I've tried ativan....won't do that one again anytime soon either. It made me feel like a zombie. I will see what the doc suggests when she calls me back probably tomorrow. We'll probably discuss a range of different drugs or therapies. I have a feeling she's getting a little frustrated with me and I have this gut feeling that she really has no desire to prescribe me with anything else until I get a fuller workup with another dr that I have to see tomorrow. I was supposed to go today but couldn't even make it out of bed.

I don't think I'm taking anything tonight. I just wanna get these other drugs outta my system so I can feel human again.




I have been an insomniac my entire life, since at least 7th grade. Ambien works great until it doesn't and when I need to take 2 to get some sleep it sucks because literally my pillows and couch will start moving. I still love it but a tolerance is too easy to develop. The herbal shit does nada for hard core insomnia and trazadone is a joke.  Sorry to sound cranky but years of screwed up sleep is so frustrating.

Anyway, I do find that taking a 10mg. valium with tea with a slug of brandy in does better than anything. Finding a doctor that will prescribe unlimited valium is tricky, but if you can, it will probably work.

I can't believe Aswad lives somewhere that dispenses roofies for sleep. There is a reason they don't prescribe what he takes in the US, it became the date rape drug. I bet he sleeps like a baby though. Damn. Jealous. 

< Message edited by Aynne88 -- 11/8/2011 6:52:57 PM >


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RE: Restoril reviews/hints/tips - 11/8/2011 6:54:52 PM   
DreamyLadySnow


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littlewonder
I took Restoril for a while, and found that one didn't do much. I'd take up to 3. NOT recommending dosages for you, that's your doc's job.
If I've had several sleepness nights now, I take one zopiclone. It works fast, and for me it's effective.
I'm wary of melatonin, for a number of reasons. Valerian I have never tried. I go with what works. Mostly that's about controlling my stress, exercising and keeping my life balanced. Hope this all works out well for you.

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