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RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 12:08:02 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Who's Ann Rand?
Any relation that Ayn woman who threw lengthy prose tantrums because she wasn't allowed to own slaves like her daddy did?

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 11/8/2011 12:09:38 PM >

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 12:08:16 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Read the article, which is the topic of this thread, instead of just talking out of your ass.   I think the article explains it rather well.  Since you didn't and I haven't noticed that you are particularly interested in informing yourself,, I will happily summarize it for you, in short, declarative sentences, just like the bumper stickers where you seem to get most of your political and financial ideas.   You are welcome

The officially recognized gap between what the state would owe its workers and what it had on hand to pay them was roughly $105 billion, but that, thanks to accounting gimmicks, was probably only about half the real number.
Let's use the optimistic figure.
The population of CA is 37,253,956
Meaning the additional revenue that would have to be "raised" is $2818.48 for every  man, woman, and child, just to cover pensions.
CA has a system in place that makes it difficult to increase taxes.
I doubt voters are going to go for removing that system, just to meet pension obligations.  Perhaps you disagree. 

The "jackpot" remark refers to the common practice of retiring, and then taking a private sector job.  You can call it something else, if you want.
quote:

quote]ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk


Nice commercial that went with putting down Issue 2 here. People didn't and don't become social workers, firefighters, policemen or teachers to become wealthy. They realize when they take the job it is only going to pay x amount and that x amount is going to be pretty much the same for 30 years.

Where the fuck does this "jackpot" you talk about happen? Any proof or just blowing shit out of your piehole again



Again, those pensions were promised so those cities and states could pay relatively low wages with the promise of a secure retirement.

The pensions were part of the compensation package.  They were not a freebie.

Another benefit to the employers of a pension plan is they retain experienced workers and do not have the training costs associated with a high turn over rate.

So if someone puts in thirty years and decides to collect their pension then becomes bored and takes another job that qualifies to you as a "jackpot"?



(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 12:32:30 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet



The "jackpot" remark refers to the common practice of retiring, and then taking a private sector job.  You can call it something else, if you want.
quote:

quote]ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk


Nice commercial that went with putting down Issue 2 here. People didn't and don't become social workers, firefighters, policemen or teachers to become wealthy. They realize when they take the job it is only going to pay x amount and that x amount is going to be pretty much the same for 30 years.

Where the fuck does this "jackpot" you talk about happen? Any proof or just blowing shit out of your piehole again



quote:

Again, those pensions were promised so those cities and states could pay relatively low wages with the promise of a secure retirement.

The pensions were part of the compensation package.  They were not a freebie.

Another benefit to the employers of a pension plan is they retain experienced workers and do not have the training costs associated with a high turn over rate.

So if someone puts in thirty years and decides to collect their pension then becomes bored and takes another job that qualifies to you as a "jackpot"?


THIS is a jackpot http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/06/public_pension_double_dipping.html

And this http://www.governing.com/columns/public-money/Looking-Twice-at-Pension.html

And this http://www.pacificlaborarchive.org/2011/01/double-dipping-is-common-for-public.html

As well as thishttp://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-12-03-states-double-dipping_N.htm

So yep, I would say it is pretty much of a jackpot.
As for your claim that this system retains experienced workers, I would argue just the opposite.  Like I already said, there is no incentive to stay for many workers once their pension is maxed out and they are fully vested.  It only makes economic sense (for them) to retire as soon as possible, collect said pension, AND get a private sector job, often dealing with the very agency that they worked with before.  It makes less economic sense for taxpayers and the states and municipalities. 

< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 11/8/2011 12:33:14 PM >

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 12:37:32 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Your premise that state and local workers earn less than private sector counterparts is not entirely correct.  This source says that State employees do earn about 5% less, but City and County workers earn about 2% more.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 12:44:15 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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The left is trying to do this to America as a whole.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2011/11/michael-lewis-201111

This article is frightening.  Michael Lewis is a financial writer who was written about the financial crisis in Greece, Ireland, and now California, the 10th largest economy in the world.  The biggest issue for California is also the biggest issue for probably every state - unfunded pension obligations of 1 Trillion dollars.  California, like most other states, is pushing the problem off on the local governments.  The mayor of Vallejo discusses the possibility of the city eventually employing one person - whose duty it will be to administer pensions.  The housing bust and the municipal bond crash didn't help.  In fact, when the credit rating of the US got cut, it wasn't treasury bonds that suffered, it was municipal bonds and the stock market.  WTF?
I certainly don't begrudge public employees their pensions, but this is a disaster.  There doesn't seem to be any way that these obligations can be met, and there is no way, short of bankruptcy, to get out of them.



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 12:45:44 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Uh, look at the house and they are doing it now, look at local and state taxes now....and they are republican so you get to be wrong again and still sanity, no surprises there.



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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 12:46:59 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		A startling claim.  This problem predates, by far, the current administration, if that is what you are blathering about.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The left is trying to do this to America as a whole.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2011/11/michael-lewis-201111

This article is frightening.  Michael Lewis is a financial writer who was written about the financial crisis in Greece, Ireland, and now California, the 10th largest economy in the world.  The biggest issue for California is also the biggest issue for probably every state - unfunded pension obligations of 1 Trillion dollars.  California, like most other states, is pushing the problem off on the local governments.  The mayor of Vallejo discusses the possibility of the city eventually employing one person - whose duty it will be to administer pensions.  The housing bust and the municipal bond crash didn't help.  In fact, when the credit rating of the US got cut, it wasn't treasury bonds that suffered, it was municipal bonds and the stock market.  WTF?
I certainly don't begrudge public employees their pensions, but this is a disaster.  There doesn't seem to be any way that these obligations can be met, and there is no way, short of bankruptcy, to get out of them.




_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 12:53:31 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Obama is the biggest union guy to ever hit the White House, they own him.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 12:57:03 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		So, that is what you were saying!!! LOL.  Like I said, this predates Obama by a long, long, long time. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Obama is the biggest union guy to ever hit the White House, they own him.



_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 12:57:05 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Quite.
That's why the OWS lot are kicking off with him in the whitehouse, innit?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 1:02:25 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Oh yeah, and theyre really going after him, too

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Quite.
That's why the OWS lot are kicking off with him in the whitehouse, innit?


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 1:06:24 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Its a matter of which way are we headed, and where are the alliances. The Dems are the unions that are doing this, the Dems and the unions are as one.

Cali is so far left, so owned by the unions that its hopeless for them, as you yourself have pointed out.

Do you not realize how these outrageous, unsustainable pensions came into being, or how they became the wrecking ball that they are today?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

So, that is what you were saying!!! LOL.  Like I said, this predates Obama by a long, long, long time. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Obama is the biggest union guy to ever hit the White House, they own him.




_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 1:07:42 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		They're going after him a lot harder than they did the chimp, sweetie.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 1:15:04 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Oh yeah, suuuuuuuuuuuure  they are...

And everyone knows it too. In fact theyre rioting nonstop at the White House now, theyve been there for weeks... 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

They're going after him a lot harder than they did the chimp, sweetie.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 1:32:06 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		You dont start grass roots at the WH. But they may end up there.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 1:51:01 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Got it, they dont want to hurry too much. They could forget something important

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You dont start grass roots at the WH. But they may end up there.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 1:51:40 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		No hurry, they have 5 years to hassle that president, as of now.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 1:55:30 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Got it, they dont want to hurry too much. They could forget something important

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You dont start grass roots at the WH. But they may end up there.




I seem to recall many, many, many state Tea Party rallys before they headed to the WH.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 2:04:24 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

You must have missed the posts where Moon was claiming that the rioters are going after Obama?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I seem to recall many, many, many state Tea Party rallys before they headed to the WH.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: California AND bust - 11/8/2011 2:10:26 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

You must have missed the posts where Moon was claiming that the rioters are going after Obama?


Nope, not at all. I havent seen them complain about anything beyond the 1% and corporate greed.

Are you going to deny that Wall Street owns Washington?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 60
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