RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (Full Version)

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Politesub53 -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 3:53:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

ask a Kiwi if hes an Aussie , ask an Irishman if hes a scot, or an american if he is canadian
notice the snort of derision




It`s the same if you ask a Cockney if hes a Northerner Sweetiepie. [8D]




Lucylastic -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 3:57:07 AM)

let alone a lancashire lad if hes a yorkshire man!
Ive seen blood spilt over that, more than once



heartcream -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 4:04:04 AM)

If there was a cuntry in Africa called the United States of Africa and they decided they were the ONLY Africans it would be pretty piggy of them. It is annoying that peeps from the USA do this but I think the majority have no idea, havent thought it through. Latin Americans hipped me to this and lights went off then.



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 4:09:19 AM)

quote:

2. Are there still lingering resentments over the American Revolution? How do the British people today truly feel about that event?
I doubt it, your revolution isn't that big a deal to the rest of the world.
quote:

3. In relation to question 2, do British people feel that Monarchism is superior to Republicanism?
I have no idea about the Brits, or anybody else really, but I do.
quote:

5. What is the common British view about America, as a nation? Are we still a colony in British eyes, some kind of estranged, prodigal son? In America, we sometimes refer to England as our Mother Country, but I was just wondering if that view is shared in the United Kingdom.
Very unlikely. the few times I hear a Brit referring to Americans as colonials, its done tongue in cheek. I hear that term used for Canadians more than for anybody else, and it seems to be almost an affectionate term then.
quote:

6. In relation to question 5, do the British still view nations like Canada, Australia, and New Zealand as still "British," even though they are independent now? In other words, do they feel a closer relationship because they parted amicably and peacefully, whereas America's independence was not peaceful.
I can only speak for Canada, and we generally feel we have a closer relationship.
quote:

7. In some of the forums I referred to above, I've encountered Australians who seem to be against both Britain and America. For historical reasons, such as the Revolution, the War of 1812, 54-40 or fight, etc., I can see why Canada and the UK might still be mad at us, but what on Earth did we do to the Australians to earn their wrath? That's what I understand the least.
Be American.
quote:

8. How do the British feel about America's role in the World Wars? (I'm thinking of what they said as U.S. troops started arriving in Britain, "They're oversexed, overpaid, and over here," while they said the British were "undersexed, underpaid, and under Eisenhower.")
A Johnny Come Lately who takes all the credit.




Zonie63 -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 7:54:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself
There is an old joke which comes around every time the US gets involved in a conflict. It goes something like "They were late getting into the last 2 world wars, so they're trying to start the next one to get in early".

That pretty much sums it up.


Many a truth is spoken in jest. However, I do remember as I was growing up, I was taught how it horrible and wrong it was that the United States didn't join the League of Nations or ratify the Versailles Treaty. The general belief is that we should have gotten in earlier.

There's always been constant mention of Appeasement and how that was such a big mistake as well. The idea was that we should have gone to war the moment Hitler invaded Austria. Some even say that we should have attacked the minute they remilitarized the Rhineland. When Pearl Harbor was attacked, the commonly held media view is that we were "asleep," "too isolationist," and we just weren't paying attention enough.

Obviously, our Allies have been equally critical in saying that we were "late," etc., so it's not surprising that America's political leaders are particularly sensitive to such criticisms. So, our policy ever since has been that Appeasement is out of the question. It's the same for isolationism. They always talked about how President Bush enlisted after Pearl Harbor, when "he knew that America couldn't be isolationist anymore" (or something to that effect).

Now, Americans have been thoroughly brainwashed into being totally against isolationism and any form of appeasement. It's this one aspect (more than any other) which is continually pounded into us from birth that has influenced the thinking of Americans on this issue.

There's very little that can be done about it from the inside, since there are few governments on Earth with the guts to stand up and tell the American people, "No, we don't need your help."

I was thinking about this when I was in an online discussion with a Japanese person who was quite angry at me because of America having military bases and troops in Japan. Of course, I reminded this person about Pearl Harbor, and it all went downhill from there.

But the bottom line was, it does absolutely no good to rail against America in this case. All the Japanese need to do is tell their OWN government to officially order US troops off of Japanese soil. That's ALL they need to do, and it has absolutely nothing to do with anything the American people want or don't want. *I* can't tell the US government to pull our troops out of Japan, because they won't listen to me. I'm just a dumb American (yes, even America's elite thinks that way about the American people - fat, stupid, spoiled, blah blah blah). Only the Japanese can do that, and if they choose not to, then there's absolutely nothing the US government will want to hear from its own people on this issue.

It's the same for every country on Earth where there is a US military presence. If all they would do is stop asking us for our help, then those of us from within America would have a little ammunition to work with to gain support for pulling America's troops off of foreign soil.





Iamsemisweet -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 8:07:04 AM)

I notice that although people apparently feel the US entered WWII late and then took all the credit, no one has mentioned the Marshall Plan. This was the $16 Billion program funded by the US to help rebuild war torn countries and get Europe rolling again after the war. 16 Billion was not chicken feed back in those days.
So even though we came late to the party, we stayed after it was over and helped clean up. How do Europeans feel about that?



GreedyTop -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 8:07:37 AM)

*likes Zonie and votes we keep him!*

(forgive me... I almost said "her", but thats because I know someone affectionately called Zonie, elsewhere, and she's a she..LOL)



MadAxeman -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 8:11:57 AM)

You finally gave in to all the requests from Iraq for you to bomb them to pieces and then move in to look after their oil? Quite selfless really.



GreedyTop -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 8:24:49 AM)

Maxie.. no, WE THE PEOPLE, for the most part did not. the politicians and lobbyists did, if I'm not totally clueless, politically (which is not unthinkable..LOL). I don't think it was too long after 9/11 that a large portion of the US citizenry recognized what was going, whether or not it was openly admitted.





Iamsemisweet -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 8:27:05 AM)

Madaxe, there was huge opposition to the Iraq war among the American people.



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 9:18:48 AM)

quote:

no one has mentioned the Marshall Plan.
That's because it has nothing to do with the question asked, which was regarding America's role in the World Wars, not its role in the post war reconstruction of Europe.



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 9:23:23 AM)

quote:

But the bottom line was, it does absolutely no good to rail against America in this case. All the Japanese need to do is tell their OWN government to officially order US troops off of Japanese soil. That's ALL they need to do, and it has absolutely nothing to do with anything the American people want or don't want. *I* can't tell the US government to pull our troops out of Japan, because they won't listen to me. I'm just a dumb American (yes, even America's elite thinks that way about the American people - fat, stupid, spoiled, blah blah blah). Only the Japanese can do that, and if they choose not to, then there's absolutely nothing the US government will want to hear from its own people on this issue.
And of course, the U.S. government exerts no pressure on the Japanese government to retain those bases whatsoever, being so altruistic and all. [8|]



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 9:29:15 AM)

quote:

Maxie.. no, WE THE PEOPLE, for the most part did not. the politicians and lobbyists did, if I'm not totally clueless, politically (which is not unthinkable..LOL). I don't think it was too long after 9/11 that a large portion of the US citizenry recognized what was going, whether or not it was openly admitted.
quote:

Madaxe, there was huge opposition to the Iraq war among the American people.
I wasn't sure, so I did a little checking, and it seems that there's a little rose colouring to your view of history. A curse on research sluts, eh?

[image]local://upfiles/1214164/A64C8377A21D4413AC99C7E556662150.gif[/image]

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/770/iraq-war-five-year-anniversary



MadAxeman -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 9:32:34 AM)

The Marshall plan cost America 13b$ not 16b$, 3b$ is not chicken feed now. The Marshall plan (ERP) was the American backed initiative to rebuild markets for U.S goods, scrap trade limitations and to somehow halt the spread of communism. It was not an act of charity. Britain was still paying back Lend Lease debt for the weapons sold to us in the first 2 years of WW2 well into the 1980s. We kept your munitions factories flourishing while fighting for our lives and going hungry. But thanks all the same, we're fortunate to have such allies.



Ninebelowzero -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 9:40:47 AM)

Firstly OP this is just my opinion so don't take it as a national trend. No there is no animosity towards the USA for it's independence, that would be plain silly, & the USA has done pretty damned well without us.
Thye concept of Britain is probably coming to an end, the previous government set up national assembly's for Wales Scotland & Northern Ireland & unfortunately neglected to answer the West Lothian question, which in a nutshell is that if the home nations get their own assemblies & English MP's can no longer vote on their matters will the whip be withdrawn from the other nations with regard to voting on solely English matters?
So as an Englishman I resent that fact massively. Scotland will get a vote in the next 3/4 years on full devolution & will probably give the mandate to the SNP as Scotland can afford it & is actually coming out of the recession faster than the rest of the UK. Wales cannot afford it & N Ireland is still to fragile politically to go it alone & the South don't want it either.
Personally I object to being called British & have done so for some time. It's not that I dislike the Celtic nations merely that I am proud of England the same way as the Nationalists in Scotland & Wales. I don't kick off with Peeps from other countries for calling me British as not many understand the complexity of devolution but on government forms for example under nationality there will be boxes for Irish Scottish, Welsh but tot English, so I cross British out & write English.
I hope this has added to the confusion lol.



GreedyTop -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 9:50:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

Maxie.. no, WE THE PEOPLE, for the most part did not. the politicians and lobbyists did, if I'm not totally clueless, politically (which is not unthinkable..LOL). I don't think it was too long after 9/11 that a large portion of the US citizenry recognized what was going, whether or not it was openly admitted.
quote:

Madaxe, there was huge opposition to the Iraq war among the American people.
I wasn't sure, so I did a little checking, and it seems that there's a little rose colouring to your view of history. A curse on research sluts, eh?

[image]local://upfiles/1214164/A64C8377A21D4413AC99C7E556662150.gif[/image]

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/770/iraq-war-five-year-anniversary



Heather.. I dont believe I suggested that the shift was immediate, but in the scope of how long this shit has been going on, yeah, I stand by my statement.
Sure, there is still a sizeable segment that thinks "OMG!! it had NOTHING to do with OIL! it is all about killing the bad guys!! OMG!!", but I believe that a poll taken TODAY would reflect the shift.



Iamsemisweet -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 9:51:45 AM)

You are correct, it was 13 billion.  Of course, there was 12 billion given before the plan went into operation.  As for the rest:

The Marshall Plan (officially the European Recovery Program, ERP) was the large-scale American program to aid Europe where the United States gave monetary support to help rebuild European economies after the end of World War II in order to combat the spread of Soviet communism.[1] The plan was in operation for four years beginning in April 1948. The goals of the United States were to rebuild a war-devastated region, remove trade barriers, modernize industry, and make Europe prosperous again. The initiative was named after Secretary of State George Marshall. The plan had bipartisan support in Washington, where the Republicans controlled Congress and the Democrats controlled the White House. The Plan was largely the creation of State Department officials, especially William L. Clayton and George F. Kennan. Marshall spoke of urgent need to help the European recovery in his address at Harvard University in June 1947.[2] The reconstruction plan, developed at a meeting of the participating European states, was established on June 5, 1947. It offered the same aid to the Soviet Union and its allies, but they did not accept it.[3][4] During the four years that the plan was operational, US $13 billion in economic and technical assistance was given to help the recovery of the European countries that had joined in the Organization for European Economic Co-operation. This $13 billion was in the context of a U.S. GDP of $258 billion in 1948, and was on top of $12 billion in American aid to Europe between the end of the war and the start of the Plan that is counted separately from the Marshall Plan.[5] The Marshall Plan was replaced by the Mutual Security Plan at the end of 1951.[6] The ERP addressed each of the obstacles to postwar recovery. The plan looked to the future, and did not focus on the destruction caused by the war. Much more important were efforts to modernize European industrial and business practices using high-efficiency American models, reduce artificial trade barriers, and instill a sense of hope and self-reliance.[7] By 1952 as the funding ended, the economy of every participant state had surpassed pre-war levels; for all Marshall Plan recipients, output in 1951 was at least 35% higher than in 1938.[8] Over the next two decades, Western Europe enjoyed unprecedented growth and prosperity, but economists are not sure what proportion was due directly to the ERP, what proportion indirectly, and how much would have happened without it. The Marshall Plan was one of the first elements of European integration, as it erased trade barriers and set up institutions to coordinate the economy on a continental level—that is, it stimulated the total political reconstruction of western Europe.[9] Belgian economic historian Herman Van der Wee concludes the Marshall Plan was a "great success": "It gave a new impetus to reconstruction in Western Europe and made a decisive contribution to the renewal of the transport system, the modernization of industrial and agricultural equipment, the resumption of normal production, the raising of productivity, and the facilitating of intra-European trade."[10]


quote:

to
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadAxeman

The Marshall plan cost America 13b$ not 16b$, 3b$ is not chicken feed now. The Marshall plan (ERP) was the American backed initiative to rebuild markets for U.S goods, scrap trade limitations and to somehow halt the spread of communism. It was not an act of charity. Britain was still paying back Lend Lease debt for the weapons sold to us in the first 2 years of WW2 well into the 1980s. We kept your munitions factories flourishing while fighting for our lives and going hungry. But thanks all the same, we're fortunate to have such allies.


Maybe those right wingers are correct about foreign aid, maybe it is just money down a rat hole.



GreedyTop -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 9:52:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

Firstly OP this is just my opinion so don't take it as a national trend. No there is no animosity towards the USA for it's independence, that would be plain silly, & the USA has done pretty damned well without us.
Thye concept of Britain is probably coming to an end, the previous government set up national assembly's for Wales Scotland & Northern Ireland & unfortunately neglected to answer the West Lothian question, which in a nutshell is that if the home nations get their own assemblies & English MP's can no longer vote on their matters will the whip be withdrawn from the other nations with regard to voting on solely English matters?
So as an Englishman I resent that fact massively. Scotland will get a vote in the next 3/4 years on full devolution & will probably give the mandate to the SNP as Scotland can afford it & is actually coming out of the recession faster than the rest of the UK. Wales cannot afford it & N Ireland is still to fragile politically to go it alone & the South don't want it either.
Personally I object to being called British & have done so for some time. It's not that I dislike the Celtic nations merely that I am proud of England the same way as the Nationalists in Scotland & Wales. I don't kick off with Peeps from other countries for calling me British as not many understand the complexity of devolution but on government forms for example under nationality there will be boxes for Irish Scottish, Welsh but tot English, so I cross British out & write English.
I hope this has added to the confusion lol.



damn, what next? teh Scots will wanna be called Scottish?

*ducks and runs like mad*



Ninebelowzero -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 9:57:12 AM)

Lol. I see a future spank coming at ya girlie!



MadAxeman -> RE: Questions for those in the UK (and elsewhere in the Anglosphere)) (11/14/2011 9:59:32 AM)

You can choose 'other' which gives room to express yourself. Do you remember the campaign for everyone to put down Jedi Knight for religion? It got the required number to qualify as a new faith, but what came of that?
I'm English too and all for being allowed to say so. The problem is that the only political parties promoting Englishness are right wing tossers, that are trying to exploit a niche of dissatisfaction and alienation.
Firstly the BNP and now the EDF.
Maybe we need a Tea Party? It would be very different from the American one.
Maybe the Tea & Crumpet Party? Huzzah!



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