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RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 8:16:22 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

What IS the world coming to?  Next thing you know, subs will be ORDERING married doms not to contact them...

LMFAOOOOoooooooooo

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 8:17:56 AM   
Bugei


Posts: 40
Joined: 9/3/2005
From: West Wales UK
Status: offline 		Read one more line and you will see the point:-

or if better communication is required to get over the fundamentals of what we do.

(in reply to OhBeMyMind)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 8:20:05 AM   
OhBeMyMind


Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo






I think unless someone has committed to being another's slave/sub, and all the ground rules have been agreed upon between the two, then he/she has every right in the world to take a stance on what they will or will not do. It is actually their *responsibility* to have cautions, limitations and to decide what pace they will go at.   Until *both* parties are committed to *each other*, and committed to the power exchange,  there is nothing wrong with someone having strong feelings on what their limitations might be, *especially* if they are newbies. Wanting to be someone's slave does not mean that these people are just sitting here as mindless, limitless drones waiting for orders to obey.  How they self-identify, is an individual and personal issue--whether it be slave, switch, sub; this can only be defined by the two people involved as they grow together and carve out their own unique relationship.
These are human relationships.  We do not have cut and dried definitions with no gray area in between.      
 
 



Posts like this send tingles up and down my spine.
Nicely said marieToo, and thank you for sharing.

_____________________________

~oh

~*~I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not~*~

~she'll tease you, she'll unease you, all the better just to please you~ K.C

~Well would you look at that! My give-a-damn just broke~

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 8:23:38 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
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Books are written from one persons point of view.  Authors  - like artists and musicians, tend to encourage and support each others topics, even when they disagree.  I have lost count of the times when Mr Warren, (please excuse me using as an example) for instance, has supported other authors and made recommendations.  We as readers, take what we find useful for ourselves and discard the rest.
 
There is no 'one true way'... only individuals perceptions.
There is a difference in sharing ones perception, than trying to force it upon others.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to ElizabethDVall)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 8:24:38 AM   
Bugei


Posts: 40
Joined: 9/3/2005
From: West Wales UK
Status: offline 		Most seem to think I was stating that BDSM was becoming to popular and that it was attracting the "wrong people" when in fact I was tossing a few balls for you to catch and play with.

The thread that developed relating to the apparent increase is young Dominants and submissives I think is very significant.

How can there ever be wrong people? that implies a judgemental attitude which is against all that BDSM stands for (<- a judgemental statement)

My own personal opinion is that we should be proud of what we do and try to promote good standards (a whole new topic) without becoming judgemental (an interesting contradiction). We actively support BDSM Pride in the UK and we run BDSM West Wales, the local contact group with two munches each month. We are out to our local community and until recently we ran a retail BDSM equipment business with a monthly presence at the London and Birmingham Fetish Fairs.

The apparent answer terrifies me.

Education and dissemination of relevant information.

How the do we do that?

How do we include the under aged in education and advice?

I DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER !!! Do you ?

(in reply to Bugei)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 8:25:52 AM   
skittykitty


Posts: 40
Joined: 5/22/2006
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bugei

The advice I gave her in response to her rather non submissive demand : -

"Do not, for any reason, send chat requests or you will be instantly blocked"

Was :-

"A bit of advice : A sub who makes demands like this is a huge turn off for any Dominant."

The whole thing was no big deal but her response made me wonder if she was realy in the right place and if she understood how important respect and simple good manors are within the lifestyle

Her response :-

"i ,ll give you some advise,fuck off and mind your own."

She is, I am ashamed to say, a 25 year old English girl.



Bravo to her, I would have quite probably told you the same thing, unsolicited advice, of that nature brings out the best in me, and it's so nice of you to be speaking for every single dominant out there, you must know them all personally and very well to be able to speak so definitely for them.

Obviously she doesn't want to be chatted at without ok'ing it first, thats very smart of her.



_____________________________

...


(in reply to Bugei)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 8:25:57 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
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From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bugei

Read one more line and you will see the point:-

or if better communication is required to get over the fundamentals of what we do.


OK... so lets delve deeper in - what are the 'fundementals' - from your viewpoint?
From mine - it is that BDSM is consensual.  No more, no less.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Bugei)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 8:28:09 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethDVall

Don't you have to have an opinion to write a book?
I find books often suggest right and wrong ways to doing things,

Don't you John?

o^^ / Elizabeth



I believe that while books may indeed suggest ways of doing things, or even express the author's opinion as to whether they believe it is "right" or ''wrong", it is up to the reader to determine the "rightness" or "wrongess" as it pertains to their lives.


As Pope put it, "A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:."  Elizabeth managed to learn that I write books. but it's obvious she hasn't read any since I explicitly state that these are "my opinions" and others are free to pick and chose as they will.  I also provide examples from other people's way of doing things rather than telling people as the OP did "you're wrong."

I quote from the preface of The Loving Dominant: "

               "You will find the vertical pronoun 'I' scattered throughout the book.  Although an overweening ego may be in some way responsible, my primary intent is to emphasize that many of the comments in this book are my opinion and are fit subject for debate or refutation.  I hope others will carry this orderly and ethical approach to the art of BDSM to greater heights than I can manage."



< Message edited by JohnWarren -- 5/28/2006 8:31:49 AM >

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 8:29:45 AM   
Bugei


Posts: 40
Joined: 9/3/2005
From: West Wales UK
Status: offline 		Thank you dark

A very good point.

How about a new topic. Would you like to start it?

Or shall I?

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 8:30:16 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bugei

The advice I gave her in response to her rather non submissive demand : -

"Do not, for any reason, send chat requests or you will be instantly blocked"

Was

"A bit of advice : A sub who makes demands like this is a huge turn off for any Dominant."


 
I do not think you should speak for all dominants. Some may respect that she will not just engage in chat with any stranger who sends a her a chat request. I think its wrong to critisize this without first making some effort to understand where it is coming from.  There could be any number of reasons that this young girl feels this way. Maybe the last 10 men who sent her chat requests tried to cybersex her or something to that effect. Who knows why she could be feeling this way?  If your concern for her was genuine and not done in the spirit of antagonism,  why not ask her why she feels so strongly about it??   Why not try to understand her, instead of ripping her down?   
 
 

(in reply to Bugei)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 8:31:27 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bugei

Education and dissemination of relevant information.

How the do we do that?

How do we include the under aged in education and advice?

I DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER !!! Do you ?

 
How do we include educating minors?  WE DON'T.
That isnt for you to decide.  That is parents responsibility.
 
So that said... education begins with ADULTS.  Including ourselves and realising and accepting that everyone is different and has a different way of responding that may not sit well with yourself, but it is their way.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Bugei)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 8:34:02 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
I shall leave that honour to You...
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Bugei)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 8:42:46 AM   
OhBeMyMind


Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
Status: offline 		Seems she was quite clear in her communication.  However, among the "fundamentals of what we do" (using the broad 'we' term), one may also find respect, which is something you apparently ignored.

And though it has previously been pointed out, your advice:
A sub who makes demands like this is a huge turn off for any Dominant."
is way out of line.  How dare you be so bold as to speak for someone else.  Your comment came off, to me, as more of a bully than anything.
But to add insult to injury, you continue to attack her:
She is, I am ashamed to say, a 25 year old English girl.

Fundamentals huh? 
The saying "Practice what you preach" comes to mind.

Edited to add:
More on "fundamentals" IMO
Acceptance
Realizing that people are different, and your way, is not the only way.




quote:


Read one more line and you will see the point:-

or if better communication is required to get over the fundamentals of what we do.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bugei

The advice I gave her in response to her rather non submissive demand : -

"Do not, for any reason, send chat requests or you will be instantly blocked"

Was :-

"A bit of advice : A sub who makes demands like this is a huge turn off for any Dominant."

The whole thing was no big deal but her response made me wonder if she was realy in the right place and if she understood how important respect and simple good manors are within the lifestyle

Her response :-

"i ,ll give you some advise,fuck off and mind your own."

She is, I am ashamed to say, a 25 year old English girl.



< Message edited by OhBeMyMind -- 5/28/2006 8:57:54 AM >

_____________________________

~oh

~*~I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not~*~

~she'll tease you, she'll unease you, all the better just to please you~ K.C

~Well would you look at that! My give-a-damn just broke~

(in reply to Bugei)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 8:57:28 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you Mr Warren. I have not yet had the pleasure of reading your book but I assumed from reading many of your posts here that I would have found some similar statement or sentiment. On occasion some of the things you write on here have challenged what I thought and made me uncomfortable. I actually like that very much because it inspires me to rethink those subjects, look at it in a different light. While I am no spring chicken at the age of 44, you have a lifetime more experience than I do. Observing your words (and several others also ) is very much an education for me.
Personally, the day I think I know more than everyone else and stop having the desire to learn from others.......someone please just take me out and shoot me, put me out of my misery. And everyone else's.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 9:05:54 AM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline 		But your response to John Warren was more than a little cheeky, wasn't it? It certainly wasn't polite, which is what the OP was having problems with in the response he received from a submissive. Hmmmm....

(in reply to ElizabethDVall)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 9:12:42 AM   
ElizabethDVall


Posts: 53
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline 		lol People can be so wrong!
Not only have I read your book as I did with all the books I had, but I've sold a few copies.
I have to admit, I found yours not to be one of my best sellers,  I found SM 101, Screw the Roses, send me the Thorns and Dossie EastonsTopping and Bottoming books to be popular and out-sell all others together, but I know of yours.

Of course, I wouldn'd dare comment on it.   lol

o^^ / Elizabeth

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 9:14:50 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Thank you Mr Warren. I have not yet had the pleasure of reading your book but I assumed from reading many of your posts here that I would have found some similar statement or sentiment. On occasion some of the things you write on here have challenged what I thought and made me uncomfortable. I actually like that very much because it inspires me to rethink those subjects, look at it in a different light. While I am no spring chicken at the age of 44, you have a lifetime more experience than I do. Observing your words (and several others also ) is very much an education for me.
Personally, the day I think I know more than everyone else and stop having the desire to learn from others.......someone please just take me out and shoot me, put me out of my misery. And everyone else's.


I've been doing this for a long time, but sadly, about the first 20 years was largely one-year's-experience-repeated-20-times because there was almost no outside input that I could turn to in order to learn.  Fortunately, we're an information-rich culture now and I love it.  Soon, I'm hoping to take Fakir up on his offer, travel to the West Coast and learn hook suspension.

It's a great time to learn and play

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 9:14:52 AM   
ElizabethDVall


Posts: 53
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline 		Ah the tragedies of being a switch!

lol

o^^ / Elizabeth

(in reply to sublizzie)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 9:32:10 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethDVall

Ah the tragedies of being a switch!

lol

o^^ / Elizabeth

I was not aware that the concepts of politeness and respect had boundaries that were exclusive to the positions of sub, slave, Dominant or even switch.



I was not aware that the concepts of politeness and respect had boundaries that were exclusive to the positions of sub, slave, Dominant or even switch. Do you mean that switches have the right to be less respectful or polite than subs/slaves? Do Dominants have that right?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to ElizabethDVall)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 9:33:52 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
Soon, I'm hoping to take Fakir up on his offer, travel to the West Coast and learn hook suspension.

It's a great time to learn and play
 
*just is incredibly envious (hey - we all have our heros)
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 120
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