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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 1:09:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I think it is because we (some of we anyway), regardless of individual views now, see religioun as something sacred. Even if we don't THINK we believe in it, there is that underlying, maybe even subconscious, fear that if we desecrate religioun we might go to hell. Like it's okay to not exactly believe but to purposely shit on the belief, is crossing that line. Just in case we are wrong in our disbelief.

I don't believe in heaven or hell, but I HAVE FRIENDS THAT DO. Their belief baffles me, but I respect it, and I wouldn't negate it or mock it by say, wearing a cross myself, or going to something that only one of their faith would do. I wouldnt make someone wear a burkha, either.

I am not going to say that it's wrong, criminal, evil, or anything really except in poor taste...and I don't think the population of passersby will be offended by someone wearing a cross and not believing. (I suspect that happens daily anyway). I just don't consider religion a "good area" for a mindfuck unless you reeeeeely know the person.

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 1:18:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fornica

Yeah. That. I don't really know how to articulate it...it just makes me feel like it crosses a moral line for me for some reason.

Me too !!

quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi

It strikes me as mocking people who believe that cross, or rainbow, or star of David, to be a symbol of something precious to them for someone to wear it as an instrument of humiliation. This is why he's making her wear it, because of what it means to those who revere it. It just seems unnecessarily ugly to me. Maybe it's stupid, I just can't take something meaningful to someone else and treat it like dirt even if it doesn't mean the same to me. I know no one else knows about it, even those that it would hurt to have it treated poorly, still bugs me.

I agree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I can't wrap myself around this for the same reason. I am not a religionist, but I wouldnt treat someone else's icons so casually.

Me either.

(This response was for Peon, BTW.)

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 1:41:00 PM

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Chatte FTW!

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 2:03:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

As far as the idiots of Westboro Church, as much as I think they are disgusting morons, as a U.S. citizen I support their legal rights. To do otherwise is dangerous. If I support legally limiting a person's right of free speech, even if I don't like what they are speaking, I have to accept that one day.........it might be MY speech that is no longer free.

I believe it is very dangerous ground when we try to start forcing our own morality on others via the law.

I agree, they are disgusting morons. But many places are limiting their "freedom of speech" by location. By limiting how far away they can protest. It would seem you are supportive of that.

This actually isn't about "morality" although because of the religous bend to it, it is easy to take that stance. It is about drawing a line in the sand, and not taking the position that because something doesn't directly affect you at that moment, it is ok. History has shown that type of attitude to be more harmful than good.

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 2:19:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

I haven't noticed the attack on Christianity that you refer to. But I have never even looked at the Politics and Religion board. I'm sure some interesting conversations probably go on there. Frankly, I wouldn't touch that board with a 10 foot pole. I'm not silly enough to think that I can change anyone's thoughts on their politics or their religion.

Having said that, I have great respect for your willingness to stand up for your beliefs. You seem to think that I am against your religion, but nothing could be further from the truth. Why do you think I was able to come up with so many examples?

Mocking and attacking aren't all that much different. I don't think (or care for that matter) you or anyone else is "against" my religion (which other than being Christian, no one here really knows what it is).

Making her say "Praise Jesus" instead of hello? I know a lot of fundamentalists and even they don't say hello that way. You know what it looked like? It looked like a mockery of fundamentalists. It looked like going for the laugh. Approaching people and asking "Are you saved?" Fundamentalists don't approach random strangers in stores and do that. Again, a mockery. Handing the change back to the clerk? Not a mockery of religion, but certainly looking to cause problems in line and to insult the cashier if the change is less than a dollar. All of these involved innocent by-standers who don't need to be involved.

The t-shirt? Who cares. Same with the cross and the bible. But approaching people and saying things to them? That's over the line to do. Suggesting it as though it is something that occurs "regularly" (every day I believe you said) is a mockery, because it isn't something that happens every day.

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 2:22:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I wouldnt make someone wear a burkha, either.

Thank you! Finally a reasonable analogy.

So now everyone who is saying that all those suggestions are ok, would forcing her to wear a burkha in public be ok? Or is that crossing the line?

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 2:23:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lookingforyou123

we're still feeling stuff out and doing soft stuff, we've been together a while and just trying a couple things, i latched onto this because it was something she felt strongly one way on, and I just want to see how far I can take it is all

So basically you are a Jerk. Not doing it cuz you enjoi it. Not doing it to better the relationship. At some point you will push to far due you asinine reasoning, and she will dump your sorry ass.

BadOne

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 2:51:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

As far as the idiots of Westboro Church, as much as I think they are disgusting morons, as a U.S. citizen I support their legal rights. To do otherwise is dangerous. If I support legally limiting a person's right of free speech, even if I don't like what they are speaking, I have to accept that one day.........it might be MY speech that is no longer free.

I believe it is very dangerous ground when we try to start forcing our own morality on others via the law.

I agree, they are disgusting morons. But many places are limiting their "freedom of speech" by location. By limiting how far away they can protest. It would seem you are supportive of that.

This actually isn't about "morality" although because of the religous bend to it, it is easy to take that stance. It is about drawing a line in the sand, and not taking the position that because something doesn't directly affect you at that moment, it is ok. History has shown that type of attitude to be more harmful than good.

I think over all we really are on the same page. After all we are talking about, per the OP, relationship stuff..........not legal.

Given a lot of the stuff I see written on here, I am pretty conservative in my limits of what is acceptable to ME for ME. Many things I read, totally hit my, "Oh hell NO!!!" button. I try to keep my opinions to myself because.....it's just about my opinion. What is right or wrong to ME. I really try to avoid blanketing everyone else with MY version of right and wrong.

Whether forcing kink/sex/race play/religious whatever-the-hell-the-OP-wanted-to-call-it, on non consenting bystanders is right or wrong to ME, is irrelevant. Unless of course, doing so is also illegal. And that is where I would tend to take action. Especially if there was going to be harm involved.

The reality of this and most of what we all like to do is that it's all a gray area. Most of what we, here, consider mild fun.......the non BDSM population might freak out about, feel it is immoral, and that they, the community, should intervene.

I mean seriously, there really is no hard fast, black and white, guide to where to draw the line.

I think that the only thing we can do is follow our own moral compass and do the best we can to be fair. Without attempting to remove anyone's legal rights. That stuff we silly U.S. citizens seem to think are so precious.

As for the burkha......not a big deal in Iowa City.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 11/21/2011 2:54:49 PM >

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 3:17:21 PM

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I am loathe to criticize what someone else does in their relationship and I think I understand where the OP is coming from in taking something their sub feels strongly about and using it as a test.

But from where I stand (and it is only that,my feeling) in a sense I kind of think that goes over the line, even if she is willing to do it as a sign of submission. First of all, if she feels quite strongly against what the cross stands for (to her), having her forced to wear it, say "praise Jesus" or whatever seems to go over the line between submission and truly humiliating or degrading the sub. Maybe it is my own take on being a sub, but having a dominant truly humiliate me, to take something I strongly believe in and use it against me, to me is wasting what I am giving them. It would be like a dominant who I am giving control to using for example a problem I have with claustrophobia, to show their power (for example, doing sensory deprivation with me, which is a hard limit) without respecting me (and again, these are what I am looking for, YMMV). Or on a related note, it would be like a dominant ordering me to smoke cigarettes since "all sluts smoke"....it is pushing someone into something they find repulsive in almost a non consensual fashion, and especially if the relationship is based on trust it is a breach to me...

More importantly, while I quite honestly am no fan of fundamentalist Christianity or many of those who practice it, I also respect faith and I think using it that way is degrading all around. It is kind of like the concept of forced conversions, how much meaning does it have to force someone to say or do something they don't believe? And it also quite honestly degrades the beliefs of others in a broad fashion, by using their religious symbols to degrade another person turns something important to them into a joke.....

Again, I am not saying the OP intented this nor am I saying "don't do that", just saying what I feel about it. Others might find some of what i find acceptable for a dominant to order me to do to be degrading, so who am I to judge?

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 4:43:42 PM

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Are you certain she finds wearing the crossing humiliating and that it's not something else?

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 4:47:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lookingforyou123
we're still feeling stuff out and doing soft stuff, we've been together a while and just trying a couple things, i latched onto this because it was something she felt strongly one way on, and I just want to see how far I can take it is all.

Beware of simply latching onto something and how far you can take it. Also your Dominant self better be prepared to assume responsibility for your own choices and actions.

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 4:50:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
I think it will be kinda funny if it backfires on you and she actually becomes a Christian after learning more about it from the ways you think you are "humiliating" her.I personally don't see what's humiliating about wearing a cross.

Me either, and I suspect it's something other than humiliation.

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 5:01:30 PM

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Maybe this is just my 22 year old logic, but I find it that people can really only be humilated by things they are actually ashamed of. So (again, my 22 year old logic) if wearing a cross is humiliating, does this person feel bad about not believing in a god?

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 5:09:15 PM

NiceButMeanGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

Maybe this is just my 22 year old logic, but I find it that people can really only be humilated by things they are actually ashamed of. So (again, my 22 year old logic) if wearing a cross is humiliating, does this person feel bad about not believing in a god?

Maybe it's not necessarily that a person doesn't believe in God, but maybe she doesn't believe in THAT God, and doesn't want people thinking she does. For instance, I believe in a Goddess AND God, but I don't believe in THAT God and would NEVER present myself as though I do.

~edited to add~I have no problem with anyone's religious beliefs regardless of who/what they believe in, but I would never present myself as sharing a set of beliefs that I don't, in fact, share.

< Message edited by NiceButMeanGirl -- 11/21/2011 5:11:53 PM >

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 5:09:22 PM

lizi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

Maybe this is just my 22 year old logic, but I find it that people can really only be humilated by things they are actually ashamed of. So (again, my 22 year old logic) if wearing a cross is humiliating, does this person feel bad about not believing in a god?

This is quite interesting MissAsylum...I have felt this myself and never really caught onto it till you mentioned it. When I was younger I realized that I had really no personal religious beliefs and I felt that somehow I should. Yes, I felt guilty about it. I've since accepted my views on the subject more wholeheartedly.

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 5:21:13 PM

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quote:

The point is that around here, people can openly talk about being a Pagan, Agnostic, or Atheist, and that's fine. Mention you are Christian and you will be called mentally ill, stupid and any other number of offensive things. Mind you I didn't say "preaching your Christian beliefs," just mentioning what you belief. Not everyone does it, but more than enough.

I haven't noticed this from anyone other than Hannah.

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RE: ideas for leftist humiliation - 11/21/2011 5:22:51 PM

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a few days living with the filth in any OWS encampment, being forced to listen to algore or biden speeches, or even Dear Leader babble on speeches.

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 5:23:19 PM

lizi

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I was going to say before that I haven't ever really seen an anti-christian bias on here. I must have missed those threads.

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RE: ideas for leftist humiliation - 11/21/2011 5:27:40 PM

lizi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan

a few days living with the filth in any OWS encampment, being forced to listen to algore or biden speeches, or even Dear Leader babble on speeches.

Is this a productive addition to this thread or just incoherent blather from a P&R escapee? There's a reason why many of us choose not to enter that realm. Go back to the depths from whence yee came and bother us no more.
Unless you're going to be a grown-up that is...

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RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/21/2011 5:28:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi

I was going to say before that I haven't ever really seen an anti-christian bias on here. I must have missed those threads.

I've seen enough here. *is a follower of Christ but tries to be open to all ideas*

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