RE: SOPA and PIPA info (Full Version)

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Fornica -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 7:20:16 AM)

Nods from a Canadian.
Sadly though, I fear you're in the minority in your country, my friend.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I like to think of myself as a patriotic American but who the fuck are we to make laws that will impact people in other countries? Has our government become so arrogant and tyrannical that we now think that we have some kind of authority over some poor sap in Provance? London?

I don't care how they dress this up, it's still a pig (I'll explain the reference, if I need to). This is not about stopping piracy in any way. It's about allowing a federal government that's run amok a foothold in censorship. It is a "little step" to get us on the path to accepting Big Brother's complete control of our lives. Saying that it's about piracy is the "spoonful of sugar".

[/color]





tj444 -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 7:21:33 AM)

The US is about to become the equivalent of China.. these bills will become the Patriot Act of the internet..

Not surprising to me tho, since the US is a police state and has been for some time..

How long do you think it will be before websites critical of the US govt will be shut out? like WikiLeaks or other whistleblower sites? Wouldnt it also mean protests like OWS will be muzzled?

jmo..




Musicmystery -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 7:23:28 AM)

Go live in an actual police state for a few months, then come back and share.




tj444 -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 7:24:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Go live in an actual police state for a few months, then come back and share.

Unfortunately I have been..




Fornica -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 7:24:53 AM)

Or work on preventing your own from becoming one.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Go live in an actual police state for a few months, then come back and share.





Musicmystery -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 7:29:36 AM)

More wild projections.

I'd like to work in a country/world where I can produce content and not have it stolen.

Talk to me about that. Then we'll have a conversation.

I've no interest in supporting the right to steal.




kalikshama -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 7:46:59 AM)

Why did Wikipedia go dark? Because the Stop Online Piracy Act goes way too far

“The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.”

...The problem is that the proposed solution goes way too far, completely upsetting the trade-off that currently exists between a little bit of anarchy and a whole lot of incredibly valuable innovative online services. In their haste to tighten the screws, the special interests behind SOPA are handing governments and private actors a club that packs much too powerful a wallop.

Right now, under the terms of the Digital Communications Millennium Act (DCMA), if an IP owner sees something on, let’s say, YouTube or that constitutes a violation, the injured party can send a takedown notice for that item specifically to the operators of the website in question. It’s not an ideal solution, but it’s been in place for about 10 years, and during that period an incredible ecology of Internet services has emerged. There is no question that videos are posted to YouTube every single day — probably every single second — that embody some form of copyright violation, but many would argue that the sum value of what YouTube has to offer society represents a net gain.

Under SOPA, as originally envisioned, a single perceived violation could get an entire website shut down, or just as effectively, choked to death; SOPA includes provisions through which a single allegation of abuse could result in the cessation of payment processing or advertisement delivery to a website. Cut off the finances, and you kill the site.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (which, incidentally, was co-founded by John Gilmore way back in the day) offers a good example of how this could work in theory, as applied to Etsy, the popular online markeplace for handmade goods.

[Etsy] has over 800,000 active “shops”… — far too many for Etsy to monitor manually. Further, because of the eclectic nature of goods listed, it’s difficult to technically filter through the objects listed.

All that means that it’s not feasible for Etsy to proactively prevent listings that may be perceived to violate US copyright or trademark law. That’s a problem, because under SOPA, anybody who is a “holder of an intellectual property right harmed by the activities” of even a portion of the site, could serve Etsy’s payment processors with a notice that would require them to suspend Etsy’s service within 5 days. That means that a trademark violation in one of the storefronts could lead to payment suspension across the entire site.

...No wonder Chris Dodd is so angry. The Internet is treating him like damage, and routing around it.




kalikshama -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 7:50:50 AM)

My former company got a few DCMA notices per year. The owner would immediately forward them to me and I would immediately take the offending page down. Not a big deal.




LastThoughts -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 7:51:49 AM)

I trust everyone here knows there are already laws and rules governing copywrite.  They've been around for ever... take the Beatles lawsuits, HR Giger, and countless others that have successfully stopped others from making profit on their hard work.

The key here is profit, which this bill is lumping into those that are sharing simply for personal pleasure.

The issue at hand is that the majority of the population actually supports the free use of sharing of ideas and things they like.  I'm not saying I'm for or against the bill.  But a majority of the people in the world do not produce anything, no music, no movies, no orginal jokes jokes.

They just recycle them.  What they associate with IS who they are.  It makes the average person, which fills most the world, feel like they are contributing.

What happens when the majority supports non-profit use of others works?

_LT




Musicmystery -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 7:52:09 AM)

Yeah...and I'm not responsible for the stolen goods that found their way onto the back of my van either.

This is the Internet. Sites pop up and vanish all that time. Without real teeth, copyright enforcement is just a game of whack a mole.

YouTube does an excellent job. And no one's going after them.

Offshore sites, however, operate with impunity.

Shut them down. And if your "business" relies on others doing your illegal work--about time you're liable too.

From there...again with the wild projections.





Musicmystery -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 7:54:53 AM)

quote:

They just recycle them. What they associate with IS who they are. It makes the average person, which fills most the world, feel like they are contributing.

What happens when the majority supports non-profit use of others works?


Oh please.

What happens when the majority feels they have the right to any car they come across?





kdsub -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 7:55:09 AM)

quote:

I like to think of myself as a patriotic American but who the fuck are we to make laws that will impact people in other countries? Has our government become so arrogant and tyrannical that we now think that we have some kind of authority over some poor sap in Provance? London?


I think this bill only affects US internet services it has no authority over anyone outside the US...they are free to steal and use information and services in any way they please...just not in the US

Butch




Lucylastic -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 7:56:40 AM)

so I should find another business because I dont agree with an AMERICAN law?
sorry, im gonna protest all I can
being fucked by my government is one thing
to be screwed over even more by the US is something else.
I produce my own work, Ive seen it stolen
but this goes WAY WAY beyond losing income and pride.




Musicmystery -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 8:06:47 AM)

Then I can't see how it affects you at all, in any way.




Lucylastic -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 8:10:05 AM)

Obviously





Musicmystery -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 8:24:11 AM)

Nor have you articulated any reasons.




mnottertail -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 8:38:04 AM)

well I will say that the bill will shut down whole domains, in fact we had several cases of homeland security doing that around thanksgiving in 08.

Equivalently, it would be akin to a library having to close its doors becasue a magazine in their possession contained a single pirated article.





Lucylastic -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 9:00:13 AM)

You are right. I havent, you can read that how you want.
It can most certainly affect me in more ways than one.
I didnt just jump on a bandwagon for the hell of it , or to bash america.
I have no need to excuse myself or explain myself, as there are idiots reading and making assumptions as I type.
We disagree. Im leaving it at that.









DarkSteven -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 9:06:06 AM)

This is actually simple.  There are four cases:

1. Site administered in the US, viewer in the US.
2. Site administered outside of US, viewer in the US.
3. Site administered in the US, viewer outside the US.
4. Site administered outside the US, viewer outside the US.

If SOPA/PIPA passes, then #1 will be affected and #4 will not be affected.  The impact on SOPA/PIPA on #2 and #3 is unclear.  Lucy is presumably concerned about case #2 - how will it affect her viewers, and will it impact her web traffic?




tj444 -> RE: SOPA and PIPA info (1/18/2012 9:06:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I think this bill only affects US internet services it has no authority over anyone outside the US...they are free to steal and use information and services in any way they please...just not in the US
Butch

I sure as fuck hope it doesnt but unfortuntely the US tries to push its laws onto other countries in various ways..

Anytime the govt, especially the US govt, gets its sticky fingers into anything they just tend to create a bigger mess.. and often times there are those pesky not-so-little unintended consequences.. If you believe that the top 0.01% are the ones that in reality control the govt... this should scare the poop outta you..

As I said in another thread.. this could easily shut down whistleblowers (such as WikiLeaks, etc), it could shut down protests like OWS too, imo..




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