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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 2:14:11 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Is Herr Hawking talking as a scientist or an atheist? said there was nothing beyond the moment when the brain flickers for the final time. If that's science talking (making a positive statement), prove it!

I rest my case.

Hawkings speaking out against theistic models of reality is a recent thing, it seems as though his atheism is a result of his work as a scientist.

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 2:18:09 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Atheists are now agnostic?

Who said that?

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 2:19:02 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Is Herr Hawking talking as a scientist or an atheist? said there was nothing beyond the moment when the brain flickers for the final time. If that's science talking (making a positive statement), prove it!

I rest my case.

Hawkings speaking out against theistic models of reality is a recent thing, it seems as though his atheism is a result of his work as a scientist.


Not so much, it has been since our human abilities of conception, that the only thing that makes us quick or dead is the passage of time and our marking it.

There is the cone of the event horizon. 


Thats bubba dee bubba dee Thats all folks!!!!!

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 2:20:13 PM   
MrBukani


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Status: offline 		Look at all the things people say about nature and God wich are simular.

People fear the power of God and Nature.
God is present in everything like Nature is.
There is a lot we still don't understand about God or Nature.
God is allmighty like Nature

hmmm

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 2:22:43 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		The fact that we as humans don't understand something is fairly certain proof that gods are not almighty.



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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 2:32:27 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I cant be bothered to worry about them calling atheism a belief while atheists are calling believers mentally ill.


I think that's a misunderstanding (often on the part of the believer listening) of the reality that:

Other studies have shown that certain mental disorders, such as schizophrenia and obsessive-compulsive disorder, are also associated with high levels of religiosity.[110] In addition, anti-psychotic medication, which is mainly aimed to block dopamine receptors, typically reduces religious behaviour and religious delusions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relationship_between_religion_and_science#Studies_of_scientists.27_belief_in_God

< Message edited by GotSteel -- 2/8/2012 2:33:02 PM >

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 2:33:32 PM   
MrBukani


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Status: offline 		The fact that we as humans don't know something makes life interesting.

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 2:34:55 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		May or may not be interesting, nevertheless, it doesn't change my original statement.


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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 2:46:19 PM   
MrBukani


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The fact that we as humans don't understand something is fairly certain proof that gods are not almighty.



Sorry but I don't see the proof if we dont understand something that Nature does not have control over everything. To add I am not saying I am right beyond any doubt. To me it does sound the most logical.
Maybe I should add as well, but I do think you know that I mean Nature encompasses everything. Except maybe time. But thinking of it now, time must be part of nature as well.
I have to figure the logic out a bit of that blank. Thanks for that realisation.

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 2:59:25 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
It's interesting that 76% of doctors are noted as much more likely to believe in God, and that belief in God tends to vary by individual fields.


I can't say I'm terribly surprised that oh say a urologists field of endeavor hasn't lead them toward atheism particularly more than a plumbers has. What I'd really love to see are numbers about what those in neuroscience have to say on the matter.

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 3:00:09 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Because the gods would reveal it if they had it in their almighty possession.  


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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 3:17:01 PM   
MrBukani


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Because the gods would reveal it if they had it in their almighty possession.  


The logic within nature reveals new things every day if we care to look for it. Nature, my God is neither good nor bad. Nature leaves it up to us to decide what is benificial to our species.
Any intelligent being like us will realize, they live on a living planet that dies someday. So if we want to continue our species into eternity we will always have to leave our homeplanet eventually.

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 3:34:05 PM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Sorry but I don't see the proof if we dont understand something that Nature does not have control over everything.


Anthropomorphic, anyone? Sure seems as if you attribute nature with god like attributes.


< Message edited by Yachtie -- 2/8/2012 3:35:55 PM >

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 3:47:59 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


Anthropomorphic, anyone? Sure seems as if you attribute nature with god like attributes.



Kind of the reverse, really. Over the centuries people have invested their various gods with nature-like attributes.


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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 3:58:16 PM   
MrBukani


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Sorry but I don't see the proof if we dont understand something that Nature does not have control over everything.


Anthropomorphic, anyone? Sure seems as if you attribute nature with god like attributes.


I was doubting myself a bit about the formation of this one sentence exactly. It is pretty easy to contest. It is also a bit of interpetation. The reason why I call Nature my God is because its easier to relate to, for religious people. I rather find common ground then to contest and ridicule them. Thats why I said as well Nature is neither good nor bad to avoid the anthropomorphic thingy. I hate words I have to wiki up. wanted to be sure, kinda knew the word.
Anyway it's a pretty rocksolid theory to me and it gives me the desired respect I would like to live with.
I live on another timezone so goodnight to you all. tomorrows another day.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 2/8/2012 4:10:00 PM >

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 4:24:02 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

Strictly speaking, there's nothing about religion which explicitly says that they must oppose the teaching of evolution or that the Sun is at the center of the Solar System. That's something that they just make up out of the blue without any rhyme or reason, nor even any religious justification.


Who exactly is they? My biology teacher was catholic and she had no problems believing in evolution or teaching it. Nor did the priest who made the one web site we studied from. So please enlighten me. I keep hearing about them and want to avoid them if possible, if I only knew who they were.

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 4:35:17 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
It's always amusing to me when theists try to tell me my Cosmology is a "religion" or that my absence of non-belief in a god(s) is a "belief". THey either cannot grasp, or they don't bother trying to grasp, that in my Universe there simply is no god(s). I don't disbelieve in god(s), I don't believe there is no god(s), there simply is no god(s). It's a fact. Two hydrogen atoms + one oxygen atom = H2O is a fact. Gravity is a fact. No god(s) is a fact. Why is that so hard?


I think there's probably an assumption that to be you have to be 'against' something. The 'a' prefix in 'atheist' may suggest that. But you're not, because there's nothing to be 'against'.


Well, 'anti" is the usual prefix denoting opposition, yes? 'A' is generally used to mean "without" or "absence of", I think. The word "anhedonia", for instance, means "the absence of the ability to experience pleasure" (different from "dysphoria", which is essentially 'feeling unease" or perhaps 'unpleasant'). But I get your point that it is iften taken to mean 'against' theism (a position I lean towards).

Your last sentence is spot on.


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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 4:48:54 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Who exactly is they? My biology teacher was catholic and she had no problems believing in evolution or teaching it. Nor did the priest who made the one web site we studied from. So please enlighten me. I keep hearing about them and want to avoid them if possible, if I only knew who they were.


I feel the same way, THB. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that it's bad to kill people - that was all made up by people later on.

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 4:59:29 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
It's always amusing to me when theists try to tell me my Cosmology is a "religion" or that my absence of non-belief in a god(s) is a "belief". THey either cannot grasp, or they don't bother trying to grasp, that in my Universe there simply is no god(s). I don't disbelieve in god(s), I don't believe there is no god(s), there simply is no god(s). It's a fact. Two hydrogen atoms + one oxygen atom = H2O is a fact. Gravity is a fact. No god(s) is a fact. Why is that so hard?


I think there's probably an assumption that to be you have to be 'against' something. The 'a' prefix in 'atheist' may suggest that. But you're not, because there's nothing to be 'against'.


Well, 'anti" is the usual prefix denoting opposition, yes? 'A' is generally used to mean "without" or "absence of", I think. The word "anhedonia", for instance, means "the absence of the ability to experience pleasure" (different from "dysphoria", which is essentially 'feeling unease" or perhaps 'unpleasant'). But I get your point that it is iften taken to mean 'against' theism (a position I lean towards).



Indeed. I'd suggest that we need a new word for those atheists who don't believe there's anything to fight against, so, don't - but, somehow, I think that said new word would get twisted, too.

When you're fighting against something, you're still tied to it. You don't move on, free, till you've finally accepted that there's no point in fighting it anymore. Just like shadow-boxing.

I've got there now. Maybe religionists think all the rest of us are stuck at that 'fighting stage'? Maybe that's what they *want* to believe - so that, perhaps, they can convince themselves that we're 'protesting too much' against the 'deeper truth' of the existence of God, that we're resisting and have suppressed inside ourselves?

I don't know. And so long as they don't jump in my way, firing their miserable, tiresome gibberish at me, I mostly don't care.


< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 2/8/2012 5:01:06 PM >

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/8/2012 5:04:43 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I cant be bothered to worry about them calling atheism a belief while atheists are calling believers mentally ill.


I think that's a misunderstanding (often on the part of the believer listening) of the reality that:

Other studies have shown that certain mental disorders, such as schizophrenia and obsessive-compulsive disorder, are also associated with high levels of religiosity.[110] In addition, anti-psychotic medication, which is mainly aimed to block dopamine receptors, typically reduces religious behaviour and religious delusions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relationship_between_religion_and_science#Studies_of_scientists.27_belief_in_God
That's damned interesting. Dopamine is a fascinating molecule. I was reading some stuff last night about it. Particularly the role of the DA D3 receptor subtype, its role in motivation, and using the agonist pramiprexole (selective for D3, affinity for D2) to enhance motivation, alone or in conjunction with amphetamine (a strong D2 agonist).

I recall reading (I have to find that link and bookmark it) that some pain-seeking and self-harming behaviors may mediate the reward pathways in the nucleus accumbens, elevating dopamine levels, thus reinforcing the reward.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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