quote:

I don't grok NS's attitude/bigotry any more than I grok religious fundies or teabagger conservatives or racists.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

It's a crock becuse that's a pseudo-scientific meme used to rationalize discrimination, there is nothing biological about it, it's completely unknown among any other mammalian species, and only intermittently in this one, not just geographically, but in the same population in different time periods - it's not socio-biological, it's social, period.

If it's biological, it's brain damage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

It's a crock becuse that's a pseudo-scientific meme used to rationalize discrimination, there is nothing biological about it, it's completely unknown among any other mammalian species, and only intermittently in this one, not just geographically, but in the same population in different time periods - it's not socio-biological, it's social, period.

If it's biological, it's brain damage.

So if it is unknown among other mammalian species it means what? Procreation and the natural desire to create progeny is definately biological, combined with it trigger a defensive reaction on a social level because it threatens the gender paradigm.

You seem very intolerant to a differing view to yours, and derogatory to any opposition. Now what is that called again?

So your comment about biological being brain damage means exactly what?

I also did not offer it as an excuse, you will notice that I stated that if it is not reconciled what happens, and regardless we should still use rational thought to make our conclusions.

Is this where I stick my tongue out at you and say "neener, neener" or something. Again I must confess to this new way of discussion, exchange ideas and opinions, or sharing experiences.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

I don't grok NS's attitude/bigotry any more than I grok religious fundies or teabagger conservatives or racists.

That's not surprising HK - it all comes from the same place doesn't it? Most bigotry can be sourced to the bigot's own insecurities, self-loathing and unresolved conflicts and desires. It's fanned by all kinds of social pressures and manifests itself in a myriad of differing hatreds, aided and abetted by the deliberate ignorance bigots need to maintain to keep their worldview intact. If you don't hate yourself at one level or another, it's pretty difficult to hate others.

This perspective is hardly a secret in today's world. What surprises me is that so few bigots have cottoned on to it. When they open their ugly mouths and spread their vile hate, they're telling the world how much they hate themselves, and deep down, how much they desire the object of their bile.

I'm unsure whether it's more sad than pathetic or the other way around.

quote:

I mean, racism isn't genetic. The notion that there are "races" of people isn't something people are born with. They're taught that it's a fact, usually informally, at a very young age. It's a small step to go from "there are different races" to "there are different races with different characteristics". And from there, the theories of Racial superiority. I think the latter is where the majority of bigots start out. They are taught that "Black people are less intelligent than Whites and Asians" and "Whites are more creative than Blacks and Asians", and not even explicitly. Young children absorb this kind of "thinking" from the way their older/adult family members react to melanin or gay people or...

I just don't get it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

It's a crock becuse that's a pseudo-scientific meme used to rationalize discrimination, there is nothing biological about it, it's completely unknown among any other mammalian species, and only intermittently in this one, not just geographically, but in the same population in different time periods - it's not socio-biological, it's social, period.

If it's biological, it's brain damage.

So if it is unknown among other mammalian species it means what? Procreation and the natural desire to create progeny is definately biological, combined with it trigger a defensive reaction on a social level because it threatens the gender paradigm.

You seem very intolerant to a differing view to yours, and derogatory to any opposition. Now what is that called again?

So your comment about biological being brain damage means exactly what?

I also did not offer it as an excuse, you will notice that I stated that if it is not reconciled what happens, and regardless we should still use rational thought to make our conclusions.

Is this where I stick my tongue out at you and say "neener, neener" or something. Again I must confess to this new way of discussion, exchange ideas and opinions, or sharing experiences.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

I mean, racism isn't genetic. The notion that there are "races" of people isn't something people are born with. They're taught that it's a fact, usually informally, at a very young age. It's a small step to go from "there are different races" to "there are different races with different characteristics". And from there, the theories of Racial superiority. I think the latter is where the majority of bigots start out. They are taught that "Black people are less intelligent than Whites and Asians" and "Whites are more creative than Blacks and Asians", and not even explicitly. Young children absorb this kind of "thinking" from the way their older/adult family members react to melanin or gay people or...

I just don't get it.

Identifying the origins of phobias such as racism, misogyny,homo- and trans-phobia as socially implanted is the key I believe. The same social forces that implant the hate act reinforce the hate throughout life. These can manifest themselves through peer pressure, through political/intellectual efforts at moralising it (It's God's will that ..<insert phobia of your choice here>), rationalising hate ("Black ppl are less intelligent than whites") or, very commonly, naturalising it ("men are naturally stronger than women physically therefore superior"/"The natural order is heterosexuality, anything else is deviant") and a variety of other ways.

Everyone has a gender identity and most of us locate it pretty close to the core of our beings. Any anxieties or doubts or insecurities we might feel about our gender can be displaced onto those people who don't fit within our gender paradigms - in our societies that means trans ppl. The level of persecution that trans ppl face is a direct reflection of the widespread and unacknowledged, unspoken anxiety around gender that exists in our society. It's among the more compelling evidence of just how much effort we all put into constructing our genders IMHO. Trans ppl defy the deeply held and widespread (and false) cultural assumption that there are only two genders/sexes and that gentials at birth determines membership of which sex and which gender for eternity. They are an open threat to the paradigm (whether they like it or not) and therefore have to be put into their place.

There's a certain comfort in being part of the crowd, a certain security in belonging and this is especially appealing to those who harbour unaddessed and unaddressable insecurities around their gender. It's far easier for them to nourish the hate than challenge the crowd and risk whatever limited privileges their position of conformity confers upon them.

This is far from a complete explanation .. but it does attempt to mention some of the more salient aspects of why hate thrives with certain types of people, of why social phobias can prove to be so persistent. There are other factors - a lack of moral courage or intellectual integrity or just plain stupidity for example - that I haven't even mentioned.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

So gender paradigm is a biological thing? Bullshit.

quote:


I'm sorry I put that so harshly, but think about it, I am using rational thought: I wish to impregnate a woman, I:

A) Find a woman and impregnate her.

B) Go beat up a trans.

quote:


Which thing is likely to get the best results here?

quote:


Biology accounts for gynophilia, not androphobia, in this instance, one does not axiomatically need include the other, they are completely separate phenomena. i.e., one is going to be just as attracted to a natural born women in the presence of a trans as one would be in the absence, it's irrelevant, it does not interfere with reproduction in any way - even if you slept with the trans - it's just not an issue biologically.

In short, not only does it make no sense, there is no evidence whatsoever to support a theory of biological homophobia. Gender paradigm is a social construct.

quote:

So if it is unknown among other mammalian species it means what? Procreation and the natural desire to create progeny is definately biological, combined with it trigger a defensive reaction on a social level because it threatens the gender paradigm.

quote:

Actually there is a sociobiological aversion to TS, or even homsexuality in many males. Most do not realize and reconcile it, and so since it is not understood it turns into hatred or phobia. Hatred and phobia are often rooted in the unknown. The aversions comes from the natural desire to procreate. It is not an excuse for us to not use the reasoning portions of our brains to make decisions though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

That one sentence implied that homophobia has a biological basis, you're gonna have to either clarify or back that up, yes.