Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (Full Version)

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Fightdirecto -> Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 2:15:06 PM)

Wealthier People More Likely Than Poorer To Lie Or Cheat, Researchers Find

quote:

Are society’s most noble actors found within society’s nobility?

That question spurred Paul Piff, a Ph.D. candidate in psychology at the University of California, Berkeley, to explore whether higher social class is linked to higher ideals, he said in a telephone interview.

The answer Piff found after conducting seven different experiments is: NO. The pursuit of self-interest is a “fundamental motive among society’s elite, and the increased want associated with greater wealth and status can promote wrongdoing,” Piff and his colleagues wrote yesterday in The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The “Upper Class,” as defined by the study, were more likely to break the law while driving, take candy from children, lie in negotiation, cheat to raise their odds of winning a prize and endorse unethical behavior at work, the research found…

“It’s not that the rich are innately bad, but as you rise in the ranks - whether as a person or a nonhuman primate - you become more self-focused,” Piff said…

Previous research has shown that students who take economics classes are more likely to describe greed as good…

In the research reported yesterday, the experiments suggest at least some wealthier people “perceive greed as positive and beneficial,” probably as a result of education, personal independence and the resources they have to deal with potentially negative consequences, the authors wrote.

While the tests measured only “minor infractions,” that factor made the results “even more surprising,” Piff said.

One experiment invited 195 adults recruited using Craigslist to play a game in which a computer “rolled dice” for a chance to win a $50 gift certificate. The numbers each participant rolled were the same; anyone self-reporting a total higher than 12 was lying about their score. Those in wealthier groups were found to be more likely to fib, Piff said.

“A $50 prize is a measly sum to people who make $250,000 a year,” he said in a telephone interview. “So why are they more inclined to cheat? For a person with lower socioeconomic status, that $50 would get you more, and the risks are small.”

Poorer participants may be less likely to cheat because they must rely more on their community to get by, and thus are more likely adhere to community standards, Piff said. By comparison, “upper-class individuals are more self-focused, they privilege themselves over others, and they engage in self-interested patterns of behavior,” he said.

In the traffic tests, about one-third of drivers in higher-status cars cut off other drivers at an intersection watched by the researchers, about double those in less costly cars. Additionally, almost half of the more expensive cars didn’t yield when a pedestrian entered the crosswalk while all of the lowest-status cars let the pedestrian cross. These experiments involved 426 vehicles.

Another test asked 108 adults found through Amazon.com Inc.’s (AMZN) work-recruiting website Mechanical Turk to assume the role of an employer negotiating a salary with someone seeking long-term employment. They were told several things about the job, including that it would soon be eliminated. Upper-class individuals were more likely not to mention to the job-seeker the temporary nature of the position, the research found.

“Support for free-market capitalism will collapse if those who do well don’t do good,” said Arthur Caplan, director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania. “Rapacious, intolerant, non-empathetic capitalism that says ‘lie, cheat, steal, it’s only the bottom line that matters’ - aside from being morally repugnant, it’s got a dim future.”…

In the candy test, 129 undergraduates were manipulated to view themselves as wealthy or poor. They were then presented with a jar of individually wrapped candy, which researchers said would go to children in a nearby lab, though the participants could take some if they wanted. The undergraduates believing themselves to be upper income took more than those believing themselves to be low income, the study found.

Erik Gordon, a business professor at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, wasn’t surprised by the results, he said.

“Greed has been on the upswing for 20 years,” Gordon said in a telephone interview. “Wealth or power that comes with high socioeconomic status means you are indeed enabled to ignore other people and might think that rules that apply to other people don’t apply to you.”

Gordon, though, thinks the research has its limits. It isn’t as much about wealth, he said, as it is about greed, a behavior that can be changed…

Piff and his colleagues said there are exceptions to the associations they found, pointing to Warren Buffett, chairman and chief executive officer of Berkshire Hathaway Inc., who has pledged the majority of his holdings to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and other charities.

Less wealthy individuals also can behave badly, they wrote, noting the relationship between poverty and violent crime in previous research.


[image]local://upfiles/42188/B08B7C08FB554029AFC580436DE03DCA.jpg[/image]




LaTigresse -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 2:18:09 PM)

I fail to see how this is any big surprise.

As for B.........because the 70,000,000 or so (just a wild guess) that have been suckered in by the 400, are not very bright.




DarkSteven -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 2:23:52 PM)

Badly phrased. The implication is that wealth causes the behavior, rather than the other way 'round.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 2:26:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I fail to see how this is any big surprise.

As for B.........because the 70,000,000 or so (just a wild guess) that have been suckered in by the 400, are not very bright.

A point I have brought up several times is that, by definition, about half the country is of below average intelligence. Fool them and you're golden.
As the so-called 400 own a large portion of the media, it's pretty easy.




LaTigresse -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 2:30:40 PM)

True that.

And Steven, I don't think it's far off base to believe that wealth does create a mindset of entitlement in many people.




Rule -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 3:04:45 PM)

They are mentally handicapped: lacking a conscience; it is as simple as that.




Fightdirecto -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 3:25:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
And Steven, I don't think it's far off base to believe that wealth does create a mindset of entitlement in many people.

I live in a quite wealthy suburb of Boston, the home of many retired CEOs, CFO, etc. living off of their "golden parachute" retirements of 2 to 5 million dollars a year. I see that mindset of entitlement all the time, particularly in our local businesses.

For example, one local woman whose husband is the retired CEO of a computer software company was recently arrested for shoplifting Hall's Cough Dops from the local pharmacy. Her husband could buy the entire building - and she tries to steal cough drops?

And some of her fellow retired businessmen's wives have been screaming "police brutality" because the arresting officer put her in handcuffs and took her to the police station in a police car, instead of making an appointment for her to report to the station when it was convienient for her! Oh - the shame! Oh - the abuse of police power!




SternSkipper -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 4:01:12 PM)


Let's make it more part of our world-
" In 1981, Mitt was arrested for “disorderly conduct” when he kept boating despite a park ranger telling him that he did not have the correct stickers on his boat. The charges were dropped when Romney threated to sue the state of Massachusetts for false arrest."

Nobles Oblige ... NOT




tj444 -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 4:32:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
For example, one local woman whose husband is the retired CEO of a computer software company was recently arrested for shoplifting Hall's Cough Dops from the local pharmacy. Her husband could buy the entire building - and she tries to steal cough drops?

I think that shoplifting is many times due to something different, that in some cases its due to depression.. I would guess she is not happy in her marriage or some other aspect of her life.. Perhaps hubby lords "his" wealth over her like she is a servant..

Of course its illegal but I would in this example consider her hubby the wealthy one, not her, even tho she has access to some of it.. Donald Sterling the owner of the LA Clippers cheats on his wife all the time, she stays married to him no matter how much embarassment from his affairs, hiring escorts, abusing employees, his racism, etc etc.. so just cuz a guy is rich, doesnt mean his wifey gets treated all that well.. jmo..


Of course, if you want an example of the wealthy mindset of entitlement, Donald Sterling would be a prime Poster Child for that!..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Sterling

"Several studies have found diagnosed depression to exist in approximately 1/3 of the shoplifters studied. Depression was the most frequently found physiological problem. This helps to explain why so many shoplifters steal from stores on their birthday and around holiday times."
http://www.shopliftingprevention.org/whatnaspoffers/nrc.htm




Rule -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 5:06:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
"Several studies have found diagnosed depression to exist in approximately 1/3 of the shoplifters studied. Depression was the most frequently found physiological problem. This helps to explain why so many shoplifters steal from stores on their birthday and around holiday times."
http://www.shopliftingprevention.org/whatnaspoffers/nrc.htm

That I did not know - and is extremely interesting. Thank you. So they steal for medical reasons: the slight excitement, I predict and expect, will lift their depression somewhat.




tj444 -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 5:22:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
"Several studies have found diagnosed depression to exist in approximately 1/3 of the shoplifters studied. Depression was the most frequently found physiological problem. This helps to explain why so many shoplifters steal from stores on their birthday and around holiday times."
http://www.shopliftingprevention.org/whatnaspoffers/nrc.htm

That I did not know - and is extremely interesting. Thank you. So they steal for medical reasons: the slight excitement, I predict and expect, will lift their depression somewhat.

Well,.. I think of it sort of like the 3pm slow tired feeling you get, then you drink coffee or eat candy and it kick starts you again, you feel perky.. but its only temporary cuz you come down again in a while anyway..

But that is just certain shoplifters, not all of them.. its hard to say about this woman, why she did that, its just my guess.. a while ago there were a few actresses that also got caught for shoplifting.. they too were well off but i think being in the spotlight is hard, you never know who your real friends are, you get older and not getting acting parts as much, and all that.. I think that would make me a little depressed..

Donald Sterling started out as a lawyer and is just an out and out A-hole tho.. a much better example of the OPs point.. [:D]




DarkSteven -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 5:29:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper


Let's make it more part of our world-
" In 1981, Mitt was arrested for “disorderly conduct” when he kept boating despite a park ranger telling him that he did not have the correct stickers on his boat. The charges were dropped when Romney threated to sue the state of Massachusetts for false arrest."


Link.




SternSkipper -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 5:43:41 PM)

Well that's not where I got mine but thanks for corroboration.

He didn't just get dismissed like there was some misunderstanding though. It made a lot of hay in the Newport paper in 81 since George was a frequent flyer in Newport back in the day. There were allegations from all kinds of lower level court officials that he was threatening "Brahman Lightning" on them.
Some shit the web doesn't remember.




tj444 -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 5:47:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

Let's make it more part of our world-
" In 1981, Mitt was arrested for “disorderly conduct” when he kept boating despite a park ranger telling him that he did not have the correct stickers on his boat. The charges were dropped when Romney threated to sue the state of Massachusetts for false arrest."


Link.

I dunno... isnt that sorta like parking illegally but the cop arresting you when he should just give you a parking ticket (&/or tow your boat.. er, i mean car) ?..




SternSkipper -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 6:21:41 PM)

quote:


I dunno... isnt that sorta like parking illegally but the cop arresting you when he should just give you a parking ticket (&/or tow your boat.. er, i mean car) ?.


You know the difference between civil and criminal offenses, right?

They don't put you in hand cuffs, read you your rights, and lock you up until a bail bond is posted for a parking ticket, which is a civil offense.
Possession of less than an ounce of Marijuana is a civil offense.

Most of the Occupy Protesters who were not charged with a private property trespass were charged with disorderly conduct.

That make the distinction clear?

Oh, and most people in Massachusetts who aren't protesting who get charged with disorderly conduct are DRUNK. In 1981 the BUI (Boating under the influence) charge was weaker than Disorderly, so I would hazard a guess that he was drunk on top of that. Either way it was bad enough that the case was sealed:
"At Romney’s request, the judge also agreed to seal the records, making them unavailable for public inspection."

Sealing records is hardly a routine thing.

But that's not my point. My point is that Romney's candor and behavior perfectly illustrates the findings of the study's findings in the OP.




SternSkipper -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 6:27:16 PM)

By The Way....
quote:


Link.


Pete and Julie


[image]local://upfiles/18637/83F4E8CAD8E94363A640E3FC0FCDEC52.jpg[/image]




tj444 -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 6:47:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:


I dunno... isnt that sorta like parking illegally but the cop arresting you when he should just give you a parking ticket (&/or tow your boat.. er, i mean car) ?.


You know the difference between civil and criminal offenses, right?

They don't put you in hand cuffs, read you your rights, and lock you up until a bail bond is posted for a parking ticket, which is a civil offense.
Possession of less than an ounce of Marijuana is a civil offense.

Most of the Occupy Protesters who were not charged with a private property trespass were charged with disorderly conduct.

That make the distinction clear?

Oh, and most people in Massachusetts who aren't protesting who get charged with disorderly conduct are DRUNK. In 1981 the BUI (Boating under the influence) charge was weaker than Disorderly, so I would hazard a guess that he was drunk on top of that. Either way it was bad enough that the case was sealed:
"At Romney’s request, the judge also agreed to seal the records, making them unavailable for public inspection."

Sealing records is hardly a routine thing.

But that's not my point. My point is that Romney's candor and behavior perfectly illustrates the findings of the study's findings in the OP.

You werent there, I wasnt there,.. I dont like to jump to conclusions like you do.. and based on the link, there is no mention of drinking or why the disorderly charge when, according to the article the cop told him not to or he would get a $50 fine.. If he was drunk as you presume, then the cop would have said dont do it or i will arrest you for BUI or disorderly conduct.. The story could just as easily be that the cop didnt like being disobeyed and considered Romenys disobedience to be "disturbing the peace".. its not like cops dont get their knickers in a knot at times and overstep their bounds.. especially if they run into someone that doesnt kiss their boots..

Show me articles or proof that it was more than that.

ETA- he did what imo a lot of normal people would have done.. me included..
"From the Boston Globe archives, May 5, 1994 (h/t Poor Conservative on twitter).

The charges against [Romney] were dropped several days later and officially dismissed in February 1982 at Natick District Court. At Romney's request, the judge also agreed to seal the records, making them unavailable for public inspection.

Romney said the guard told him not to put the boat in the water or he would be ticketed and fined $50. Frustrated and feeling that the license was still somewhat visible, Romney defied the order, saying it would be worth his while to be fined $50 to enjoy the day on the lake with his family.

When he began to put his boat in the water again, Romney said the park ranger reappeared, furious over Romney's defiance, and arrested him. Romney said he was handcuffed and taken to the Natick police station and booked."

http://maroonedinmarin.blogspot.com/2012/01/boston-globe-archives-romney-arrested.html




Musicmystery -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 6:51:10 PM)

quote:



Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal


This does conclusively prove that what passes for a "study" these days crosses a very low bar.




SoftBonds -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 6:55:51 PM)

No shit sherlock, how do you think they got to be wealthy!
Sorry, couldn't resist. However, here is a fun one. Honest to goodness true story about when I took business ethics.
We were taught that the number one priority of a business was to act in the interests of it's stockholders. They were free to take their dividends and do whatever good works they wanted, but to do anything charatable with a business that wasn't intended for advertising was "stealing," from the stockholders.
Likewise, in a choice between a morally difficult choice or a choice that cost more money, allowing your morals to get in the way of the business bottom line was another type of "stealing," from the stockholders. After all, you were doing something for yourself with their money.
Offshoring jobs, child labor, sweatshops, dumping toxic waste illegally, skipping safety options on a deepwater horizon well? All ethical since you were not committing the greater crime of stealing from the stockholders...
You wonder where the businesses get it? Now you know.




SternSkipper -> RE: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal (2/29/2012 9:08:24 PM)

quote:


You werent there, I wasnt there,.. I dont like to jump to conclusions like you do.. and based on the link, there is no mention of drinking or why the disorderly charge when, according to the article the cop told him not to or he would get a $50 fine.. If he was drunk as you presume, then the cop would have said dont do it or i will arrest you for BUI or disorderly conduct.. The story could just as easily be that the cop didnt like being disobeyed and considered Romenys disobedience to be "disturbing the peace".. its not like cops dont get their knickers in a knot at times and overstep their bounds.. especially if they run into someone that doesnt kiss their boots..


You know what? I'll discount that as a RATHER experienced New England Mariner who was at the time living maybe 10 miles from that lake (Marlboro St. Boston) at the time and knew as a college student what the cops were like in the area. And I'll just let it go with you're probably right. Mitt was just being his usual charming self EXACTLY counter to how he is remembered in Cambridge at the time, and that he was a victim to what you are leaping to the conclusion was an overzealous cop who demanded some kind of fetish service by your account[:D] And that he arrested poor Mitt as a result and that Mitt was one of the say .005% of people (Including OB Protesters) in Massachusetts who weren't drunk at the time of their arrest for disorderly conduct.



Show me articles or proof that it was more than that.

Sure I'll find detailed account ... On the web ... of something that was old news before the web. Right after you do something for me. Show me a police blotter item on any time that Barack Obama was pulled over by the police. THAT I know happened in the Internet Era and good luck finding it. I couldn't locate anything but people mentioning it back in 08.





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