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Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 7:17:57 AM   
fucktoyprincess


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When I read a lot of dietary recommendations around healthy eating, what researchers typically do is find something that is working very well in one part of the world (say the Mediterranean or France), and then simply say that following those guidelines will help you become healthier (I am not really talking about weight or dieting for weight purposes, but eating properly for overall healthiness of the body and its major systems).

But when I think about healthy food habits globally, it seems to me that different regions have very different approaches that, I think, are historically based on what was readily available in their particular environment. And I feel certain populations have actually adapted to certain diets over the thousands of years of human history. In other words, what might be healthy for one type of person because of their ancestry may not be the healthiest diet for another person. I think we are each genetically predisposed to react better to certain types of foods than others based on our ancestry.

So for example, there isn't a lot of dairy in the East Asian diet. And people of East Asian ancestry often have difficulty even digesting dairy products. And even if they can digest them, if they eat dairy, they often end up with cholesterol or other issues, that people of other backgrounds would not get from eating the same amount of dairy.

I believe the Inuit of the northern most parts of the globe subsist, in part, on large quantities of seal fat (and meat) and far less in the way of grains or vegetables - a diet which would give many of the rest of us all sorts of health issues.

People of cultural backgrounds that are predominantly vegetarian, like some Buddhists and Hindus, have issues with cardiac disease and diabetes when they consume animal protein.

Soy, tolerated very well by people of East Asian ancestry, is sometimes not as easily digested by people of other ancestry. It can lead to endocrine issues and diabetes (but doesn't seem to cause these issues for East Asians).

When people say my grandfather drank and ate butter, red meat and white bread until he died at 100, they are almost always speaking of a family member of Germanic or other Northern European background. You are unlikely to hear anyone from certain parts Asia ever say that.

Anyway, there is no research that I am aware of to support this view of mine. But I am wondering if any of you have any personal observations to share. I do know that when I adhere to a diet that more closely resembles that of my ancestry, I feel better and am healthier (for example, huge swings in cholesterol levels when I eat a diet more like my ancestors - some of which is not necessarily healthier per se, but just better suited to me, I think).

So whenever researchers come out with a discovery about the newest "super food" - I always pause and think about whether consuming that food would make sense for me, given what I know about both my ancestry, and what I tolerate well and don't. I really think what works for some groups of people will not necessarily have the same effect on other groups. Just like genetics and family history matter for health generally, I think it matters for determining what foods are healthiest for us.

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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 7:25:39 AM   
LaTigresse


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As much as I can find out, my family on both sides have been here in the US since the beginning. Primarily German, Dutch, Welsh and if rumours are to be believed, a touch of native American.

Eating a lot of animal proteins and carbs like our ancestors, didn't do my maternal relatives any favours. So regardless of how my ancestry ate, I am taking another path and so far, it's working well.

I have seen studies on the effects of the modern diet on peoples that ate very differently in their recent past. I do remember a documentary on the Alaskan Indians and how the modern diet affected them. When they went back to a traditional diet, their weight problems improved. I have to wonder if it has less to do with the seal fat they were accustomed to and more to do with the types of food in the modern diet. Fast food, junk foods, processed foods, sodas, etc.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 3/5/2012 7:29:15 AM >


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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 7:29:41 AM   
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I always hear people say "my grandfather ate lard and fat and tons of meat and potatoes and he was healthy". Then I see a picture of that person and they're usually overweight and when I ask more questions I find out that they probably were not healthy. It's just at that time in history there was still a lot of unknown health problems.

My family likes to try that on people and I just laugh. My family are for the most part, all big. They always at lots of fat and stuff that generally nasty. They ate what was readily available which most times was not good for you. Because it's readily available doesn't mean it's healthy.

What doesn't help either is that it's part of my genetics probably too because I have to really fight to lose weight. I have the same shape as the rest of my family when they were my age and they just got bigger and bigger from that point on. I refuse to be like them so I fight like hell. I'll always for the rest of my life have to fight it. It really sucks!! Even then I'll always have the big hips. I'm stuck with those.

So even though one's body shape and weight could possibly be genetic, you can change it. It may not be easy but it can be done. I've done it before and I'll continue to do it.


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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 7:33:14 AM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

As much as I can find out, my family on both sides have been here in the US since the beginning. Primarily German, Dutch, Welsh and if rumours are to be believed, a touch of native American.

Eating a lot of animal proteins and carbs like our ancestors, didn't do my maternal relatives any favours. So regardless of how my ancestry ate, I am taking another path and so far, it's working well.


I don't know if this might be a factor or not. Historically, in every part of the world, meat was very much a luxury. People didn't eat meat at the same quantities that we eat meat today, and I wonder if it is just quantity that is at issue. When I travel in Europe, portion sizes don't come anywhere close to portion sizes in the U.S. Even in places like Germany. I am sure Americans of European background are on average less healthy than their European counterparts, in part, because of the unique eating habits of Americans. Not sure if this changes your perspective or not. I do know the French are much healthier than Americans even though their diet contains things like animal protein and dairy. But they tend to eat much, much smaller portions of food. I think eating like one's ancestors would necessarily have to include some consideration of what kind of portion size they considered appropriate for different kinds of foods.

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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 7:41:14 AM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I always hear people say "my grandfather ate lard and fat and tons of meat and potatoes and he was healthy". Then I see a picture of that person and they're usually overweight and when I ask more questions I find out that they probably were not healthy. It's just at that time in history there was still a lot of unknown health problems.

My family likes to try that on people and I just laugh. My family are for the most part, all big. They always at lots of fat and stuff that generally nasty. They ate what was readily available which most times was not good for you. Because it's readily available doesn't mean it's healthy.

What doesn't help either is that it's part of my genetics probably too because I have to really fight to lose weight. I have the same shape as the rest of my family when they were my age and they just got bigger and bigger from that point on. I refuse to be like them so I fight like hell. I'll always for the rest of my life have to fight it. It really sucks!! Even then I'll always have the big hips. I'm stuck with those.

So even though one's body shape and weight could possibly be genetic, you can change it. It may not be easy but it can be done. I've done it before and I'll continue to do it.



I really can't speak to the body shape and weight issues. I am focusing more on the health of internal systems as opposed to what one would eat to lose weight. So, I'm not really thinking about what to eat to keep oneself thin, but whether there is a connection between the type of food our ancestors ate, and the healthiness of our internal organs and major systems - something that you can't determine from simply looking at body shape or weight.

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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 8:12:18 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

As much as I can find out, my family on both sides have been here in the US since the beginning. Primarily German, Dutch, Welsh and if rumours are to be believed, a touch of native American.

Eating a lot of animal proteins and carbs like our ancestors, didn't do my maternal relatives any favours. So regardless of how my ancestry ate, I am taking another path and so far, it's working well.


I don't know if this might be a factor or not. Historically, in every part of the world, meat was very much a luxury. People didn't eat meat at the same quantities that we eat meat today, and I wonder if it is just quantity that is at issue. When I travel in Europe, portion sizes don't come anywhere close to portion sizes in the U.S. Even in places like Germany. I am sure Americans of European background are on average less healthy than their European counterparts, in part, because of the unique eating habits of Americans. Not sure if this changes your perspective or not. I do know the French are much healthier than Americans even though their diet contains things like animal protein and dairy. But they tend to eat much, much smaller portions of food. I think eating like one's ancestors would necessarily have to include some consideration of what kind of portion size they considered appropriate for different kinds of foods.


Another thing that is often forgotten is activity level. Most of us here in the US are some of the most sedentary human beings on the planet. Unlike our ancestors we do far far too much sitting on our asses.

Which also leads to the discussion of skinny fat people.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 3/5/2012 8:14:37 AM >


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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 8:21:16 AM   
AttitudyJudy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


I don't know if this might be a factor or not. Historically, in every part of the world, meat was very much a luxury. People didn't eat meat at the same quantities that we eat meat today, and I wonder if it is just quantity that is at issue. When I travel in Europe, portion sizes don't come anywhere close to portion sizes in the U.S. Even in places like Germany. I am sure Americans of European background are on average less healthy than their European counterparts, in part, because of the unique eating habits of Americans. Not sure if this changes your perspective or not. I do know the French are much healthier than Americans even though their diet contains things like animal protein and dairy. But they tend to eat much, much smaller portions of food. I think eating like one's ancestors would necessarily have to include some consideration of what kind of portion size they considered appropriate for different kinds of foods.


So true about the portion sizes in Europe. Some delis here will pack a 1/2 pound of meat into a sandwich. They have one or two thin slices. A soda in a restaurant here comes in an enormous glass with free refills. Theirs is tiny, maybe 6 or 8 ounces? The sodas in non-returnable bottles are skinny, half the size of what we buy here.

Couple portion size with the fact that, since it's so expensive to own and operate a car there, they walk, bike and take public transportation, which still requires walking to and from stations as well as standing and balancing yourself on the trains and streetcars. They do tend to be thinner over there.

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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 8:52:11 AM   
fucktoyprincess


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The evidence on activity/exercise is indisputable. Being active seems to reduce health risks across the board. So yes, I am all in favor of people being as active as they possibly can.

I am a very active person. And I am slender. But I still am healthier when I eat a diet closer to that of my ancestors.

A few more examples. My friends who are of Mediterranean background do much better when they use olive oil than other types of healthy oils. Asians use a lot of peanut oil, coconut oil etc - but are still quite healthy.


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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 1:34:28 PM   
LaTigresse


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I was thinking about this and I begin to wonder if it probably makes a difference as to the amount of time since, and what mixture your ancestors are. When you consider most US citizens. Our family trees read like a National Geographic world tour and it's only going to get more complex. Many of us could eat an extremely varied diet and still be eating like our ancestors.

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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 2:31:38 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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I agree that studies that look at very homogeneous cultures, such as asians, are very misleading when applied to other parts of the world. I am Italian, and while I don't eat like an Italian most of the time, my body does like the style of eating. Still, Italians traditionally have issues with cholesterol and diabetes--in spite of having a low meat, high vegetable kind of diet.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that there is no culture that is without disease of some sort, but yes, people are very adaptable. Look at the Maasai people, or the Dinka, who drink tremendous amounts of milk and cow's blood. Healthy people, doing what would make us very ill. The same with many indigenous people. And regarding the Inuit and "fast food"---I am willing to bet that there is very little fast food in Nunavut, but a whole lot of alcohol...

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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 3:37:38 PM   
kitkat105


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It's possible that because of your genetic predisposition to problems, if you do eat a certain diet you will no doubt develop those problems. Kind of like encouraging them! So if you have a positive family history for heart disease: eating a high fat diet and leading a sedentary diet .. you might as well buy one of those pre-paid funerals now!

There's a lot said for self accountability. At the end of the day, eat naughty things in moderation, and balanced diet of good stuff. Exercise when you can. You've only got 1 body, some things are reversible but if you fuck it up it just adds extra hard work!

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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 3:51:10 PM   
tj444


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For me,.. NO, eating as my grandparents or parents would land me in an early grave,.. as it did my father.. I grew up on a farm and my whole family thought i was bonkers when I turned vegetarian as a kid... I couldnt eat my "pets"... my cruel parents lied to me when my cow disappeared one day..

For me, a lean protein, whole grains, lottsa veggie diet, unprocessed diet has been the best for me.. but that means cooking nearly everything myself, avoiding pasta, most bread, nearly all meat, dairy, and sticking as close as nature made food, organic when possible (especially when i juice)..



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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 8:07:55 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I was thinking about this and I begin to wonder if it probably makes a difference as to the amount of time since, and what mixture your ancestors are. When you consider most US citizens. Our family trees read like a National Geographic world tour and it's only going to get more complex. Many of us could eat an extremely varied diet and still be eating like our ancestors.


Yes, I'm sure it does, but certainly we can tell the typical American diet is not working for the average American.

But I still think for those people who can trace their ancestry back and identify 2-3 major groups, there are probably insights to be gained from this. I wouldn't discount it off hand simply because many Americans claim mixed heritage.

The thing I find interesting about this is that what is considered "healthy" is not actually always healthy for all people. That's actually what I find most fascinating. So just taking the approach of "well, I will eat what is considered healthy." Well healthy by whom? For whom? In what circumstances? It is not clear to me that certain things are always good for everyone. For example, one would think that any type of plant would be safe. But as we know, some people don't do well on soy - it can cause a lot of serious issues for certain people. But others can eat tons of it and have no ill effect. That is sort of what I'm driving at - there is no item, even vegetables, that you can universally claim are safe for everyone in the same quantities, etc.


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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 8:16:33 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

For me,.. NO, eating as my grandparents or parents would land me in an early grave,.. as it did my father.. I grew up on a farm and my whole family thought i was bonkers when I turned vegetarian as a kid... I couldnt eat my "pets"... my cruel parents lied to me when my cow disappeared one day..

For me, a lean protein, whole grains, lottsa veggie diet, unprocessed diet has been the best for me.. but that means cooking nearly everything myself, avoiding pasta, most bread, nearly all meat, dairy, and sticking as close as nature made food, organic when possible (especially when i juice)..




Just for the record, when I say my ancestors, I'm going back a bit further I am not talking about the way my parents or even my grandparents actually ate (because they already didn't eat the way their ancestors did). I have to go back to the countries of origin and look at how people ate in different regions and sort through it that way. So for me it doesn't mean the food I was raised on (much of which was "American" or American influenced i.e., more meat, larger portions, etc.), but more how people from the parts of the world my ancestors came from would have eaten historically.

It's great that you've sorted out what works for you. But I guess you are saying there is no correlation between your ancestry and the types of foods that you currently eat.

Then finally, your pet cow....




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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 8:26:22 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I agree that studies that look at very homogeneous cultures, such as asians, are very misleading when applied to other parts of the world. I am Italian, and while I don't eat like an Italian most of the time, my body does like the style of eating. Still, Italians traditionally have issues with cholesterol and diabetes--in spite of having a low meat, high vegetable kind of diet.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that there is no culture that is without disease of some sort, but yes, people are very adaptable. Look at the Maasai people, or the Dinka, who drink tremendous amounts of milk and cow's blood. Healthy people, doing what would make us very ill. The same with many indigenous people. And regarding the Inuit and "fast food"---I am willing to bet that there is very little fast food in Nunavut, but a whole lot of alcohol...


But the diabetes rates in Italy are about half of that in the U.S. (quite a significant difference, I think). Obviously I don't know the diabetes rates for Italian-Americans specifically. But I suspect there is something that Italians in Italy are doing about diet that might be different from Italians who have settled in other parts of the world. Again I'm speculating. I have relatives in Italy (some who are part Italian by ancestry). They eat VERY differently from Italian-Americans.

I love your Maasai/Dinka example. Yes, I can't imagine everyone doing well on that diet - but for them it is the healthiest. Sort of crazy in a way!


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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/5/2012 8:31:34 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitkat105

It's possible that because of your genetic predisposition to problems, if you do eat a certain diet you will no doubt develop those problems. Kind of like encouraging them! So if you have a positive family history for heart disease: eating a high fat diet and leading a sedentary diet .. you might as well buy one of those pre-paid funerals now!

There's a lot said for self accountability. At the end of the day, eat naughty things in moderation, and balanced diet of good stuff. Exercise when you can. You've only got 1 body, some things are reversible but if you fuck it up it just adds extra hard work!


Yes, family history plays a big role. I am just suggesting that our genetics may also play into how we process certain kinds of foods, and that some of us might process certain kinds of food better than others (e.g., soy).

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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/6/2012 1:00:09 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
Just for the record, when I say my ancestors, I'm going back a bit further I am not talking about the way my parents or even my grandparents actually ate (because they already didn't eat the way their ancestors did). I have to go back to the countries of origin and look at how people ate in different regions and sort through it that way. So for me it doesn't mean the food I was raised on (much of which was "American" or American influenced i.e., more meat, larger portions, etc.), but more how people from the parts of the world my ancestors came from would have eaten historically.

It's great that you've sorted out what works for you. But I guess you are saying there is no correlation between your ancestry and the types of foods that you currently eat.

Well,... I dunno exactly what my ancestors ate, depends on how far back you want to go.. my mother was born in Germany so that is partly the food i was raised on.. I dont think i ate as a kid very differently from my ancestors... Sauerkraut has been in Europe for about 1000 years, for instance.. (I do eat that still once in a while)..

I also did not grow up with McDonalds or supersized meals.. So much food is processed now, as dozens of additives added to it that you cant even pronounce.. I am trying to get away from that but it requires a massive & organized effort.. Its worth it tho, imo..

It is hard to eat the way i want to when i travel tho, thats a problem for me right now.. :(((

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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/6/2012 2:58:42 PM   
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There is a school of thought that says that tropical fruit grows where people need it. Different climates require (and provide) different nutritional intake.

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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/6/2012 3:01:34 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
Just for the record, when I say my ancestors, I'm going back a bit further I am not talking about the way my parents or even my grandparents actually ate (because they already didn't eat the way their ancestors did). I have to go back to the countries of origin and look at how people ate in different regions and sort through it that way. So for me it doesn't mean the food I was raised on (much of which was "American" or American influenced i.e., more meat, larger portions, etc.), but more how people from the parts of the world my ancestors came from would have eaten historically.

It's great that you've sorted out what works for you. But I guess you are saying there is no correlation between your ancestry and the types of foods that you currently eat.

Well,... I dunno exactly what my ancestors ate, depends on how far back you want to go.. my mother was born in Germany so that is partly the food i was raised on.. I dont think i ate as a kid very differently from my ancestors... Sauerkraut has been in Europe for about 1000 years, for instance.. (I do eat that still once in a while)..

I also did not grow up with McDonalds or supersized meals.. So much food is processed now, as dozens of additives added to it that you cant even pronounce.. I am trying to get away from that but it requires a massive & organized effort.. Its worth it tho, imo..

It is hard to eat the way i want to when i travel tho, thats a problem for me right now.. :(((


My ancestry is northern European for the most part. I have to assume a lot of carbs and animal protein along with preserve/pickled veggies of sorts.

I don't care what anyone says, eating too much carbs and animal protein is not going to be healthy for me. My dead, more recent relatives are testament to that. And pickled stuff....YUCK!!!!!!!!!!

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RE: Healthy Eating Habits and Ancestry - 3/6/2012 3:17:58 PM   
DesFIP


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In Northern Europe there are very few fresh vegetables that could be eaten during the long winters before refrigeration. Pickline things enabled you to still eat them. Without that, eating only meat and potatoes, you would develop scurvy. Pickles prevented that.

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