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Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/8/2012 10:57:47 PM

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As a sub with an over active imagination I am always fantasizing about rules or commands that I would love for a Dom to make. My question is, would shareing these fantasies or asking for the rules be topping from the bottom, because that's something I really don't want to do, even on accident.

RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/8/2012 11:34:55 PM

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Topping from the bottom is basically deliberate manipulation to get what you want. It is in no way TFTB to sit down and communicate your wants, needs, desires and fantasies, and thoughts. Doms aren't mind readers. Communicating these things helps the Dom get to know you and see where your head is at, what you might like or not like. Communicating what you don't like, what limits you have, etc., is also a very smart thing to do.

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RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/8/2012 11:41:18 PM

SpiritedRadiance

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I hate to break the news for you but topping from the bottom doesnt exist..

Its emotional manipulation used by weak insecure and unskilled dominants, who cannot inspire a submissive to obey with out using extremely dirty tricks. Like making a submissive feel bad.. for their own short comings.

Think of it this way, if you are "topping from the bottom" It means your partners "bottoming from the top" Because how do you get control or manipulate a situation, unless the dominant is not in control or is allowing it? Not very domly dom behavior now is it?

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RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/9/2012 12:03:42 AM

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No. Expressing yourself--your thoughts, desires, opinions, feelings--is not at all undermining his authority. In fact, you are helping him by allowing him further access to your mind. You are giving another part of yourself to him every time you share your thoughts. This is why I always speak my mind to my Master. In fact, he requires me to. Since he owns me, he has the right to full access to every part of me, and that includes full uncensored access to my mind.

Also, keep in mind that asking him for something (even demanding it, though that may be considered disrespectful) doesn't mean he has to give it to you. He has the authority, so it's still up to him to decide whether or not what you want happens. Being submissive doesn't mean you're not allowed to have wants or desires, nor does it mean you shouldn't express them--you can and you should, so you can leave it up to your dominant to decide upon it.

((Edited for clarity))

< Message edited by RaspberryLemon -- 3/9/2012 12:06:06 AM >

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)

RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/9/2012 12:18:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

I hate to break the news for you but topping from the bottom doesnt exist..

I think topping from the bottom exists, it's a just a whole lot rarer than portrayed. A lot of dominants have used the term to shut down and control submissives, keep them from communicating or expressing themselves or disagreeing. It is a way overused and miss-used term from all I've seen.

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RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/9/2012 12:19:33 AM

SpiritedRadiance

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its can only exist if the dominant bottoms from the top..

Sorry your either in control, or your not, if your not dont blame it on the submissive, blame it on yourself...

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RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/9/2012 12:23:44 AM

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Ah good old personal responsibility. That seems to be such a difficult to impossible thing for people to do anymore.

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RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/9/2012 12:37:16 AM

SpiritedRadiance

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why take personal responsibility when you can shove it off on the submissive as the problem

Every single time ive heard the phrase its been at a dominant who didnt want to offer honest communication, or answer questions like, are you sure this tie is safe my hands going numb...

_____________________________

"Theres nothing in life like the feeling of cool leather sliding over your skin, the tears that fill your eyes as you realize someone else thinks you deserve it even if you havent reached that conclusion yet"- Forever to remember 11/5/11

(in reply to SassySarijane)

RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/9/2012 4:43:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ScoutsHonor
My question is, would XXX be topping from the bottom, because that's something I really don't want to do, even on accident.

Katie, you're a sweet girl. But this sentence worries me.

1. You're relying on an EXTERNAL rule. A Dom who referenced an external rule would be IMO weak. Let me explain. If your Dom were to say that he doesn't want you wearing jeans and wants you to wear skirts and dresses, that's HIS rule. If he says the exact same thing and then explains it because it's illegal in Iran, then he's referencing someone else's rules.

If he says that XXX is TFTB, then he's referencing someone else's rules, not his own.

2. You will screw up by accident. It's gonna happen. Breaking rules deliberately is a serious thing. Breaking them accidentally is not. Focusing on the small stuff and not the big stuff, isn't healthy.

Finally, with respect to the issue itself - you GOTTA share. If you don't, then you'll keep thinking, "He's not doing this properly", because in your mind you'll be holding him responsible for the entire relationship without any input from you. It takes two to make a relationship work, D/s or otherwise. I like the dynamic where both parties say what they want, what they don't want, etc., and then the Dom decides.

Katie, welcome to collarme.

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RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/9/2012 7:11:57 AM

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I can ask or tell Master anything. It's not topping from the bottom. It's up to him though what to do with that information. Topping from the bottom would be you deciding to take control of the situation without allowing him to do so. With a good Dom though you won't have any topping from the bottom because he knows how to take care of the situation before that ever even happens. Imo if you can get away with topping from the bottom then I would question myself if that person is even a Dom at all.

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RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/9/2012 9:34:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I can ask or tell Master anything. It's not topping from the bottom. It's up to him though what to do with that information. Topping from the bottom would be you deciding to take control of the situation without allowing him to do so. With a good Dom though you won't have any topping from the bottom because he knows how to take care of the situation before that ever even happens. Imo if you can get away with topping from the bottom then I would question myself if that person is even a Dom at all.

Exactly! As I just wrote on ChatteParfait's thread about this subject, asking is not topping. It's not like Master doesn't have the right or ability to say "no."

luci

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RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/9/2012 1:41:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ScoutsHonor

As a sub with an over active imagination I am always fantasizing about rules or commands that I would love for a Dom to make. My question is, would shareing these fantasies or asking for the rules be topping from the bottom, because that's something I really don't want to do, even on accident.

I'd call it healthy relationship communication.

I have many a set rule and standard of behaviour for my submissive before we've even met. They are the basics.... But in real life, there'll always be differences with individual submissive personalities that require one on one attention. So yeah, it's actually one of the questions I'll ask early in the relationship....

The rules still need to be practical and realistic. If a particular rule is causing her too much stress, she'll inevitably act out without wanting or meaning to. That's a rule that isn't working and needs to be either modified or discarded altogether. Conversely, if she has something in mind of her own, absolutely it's open to consideration.

But careful what you wish for - because once a rule is in place and working for both of us, I won't get tired of enforcing it. Memories of subs with weight issues comes to mind, here.... ;)

Focus.

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(in reply to ScoutsHonor)

RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/9/2012 1:53:30 PM

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I do this pretty often myself. Tell him my fantasies, scenarios I've played out in my head, what I like and don't like. What he does with this information and when he chooses to use it is up to him. I don't think there's anything wrong with talking.

(in reply to Focus50)

RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/9/2012 4:45:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ScoutsHonor
As a sub with an over active imagination I am always fantasizing about rules or commands that I would love for a Dom to make.

Neat. I like it when my partners have thoughts, opinions, desires of their own. I can't imagine myself ever looking for a "slave". I'm looking for a fully formed human not some sort of cardboard cut out of a BDSM meme.

My question is, would shareing these fantasies or asking for the rules be topping from the bottom
Almost certainly in some people's views and certainly not in others. In my household I don't care about TFTB but I sure as hell DO care about my partner not sharing important stuff with me for made-up BDSM reasons.

because that's something I really don't want to do, even on accident.
Really? Can you articulate exactly what this awful thing you're thinking about IS and what horrific repercussions accrue from it? I have to tell you that this statement here is a LOT more concerning to me than any possibility of the dreaded TFTB. Relationships are a full contact sport for me and I have no interest in someone who's afraid to engage.

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RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/9/2012 6:35:19 PM

MalcolmNathaniel

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No, it's not. If you demanded it than it would be. Stating your fantasies is not topping from the bottom.

Personally, I have always required it of my slaves. I don't necessarily follow through on their fantasies, but it's not their choice or right to withhold that information from me.

(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/10/2012 1:19:30 AM

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Thank you everyone who has reassured me that I wouldn’t be out of line.

In response to the question of why I fear Topping from the bottom so much it has nothing to do with an external punishment or anything but a deep-seated desire within me to be the best that I can. The guilt, shame and embarrassment that I place upon myself when I behave in a manner that I shouldn’t is far worse than and punishment a Dom could bestow on me. It is that that I want to avoid and I wanted to know in advance if most Doms would take my fantasies or requests as TFTB.

(in reply to MalcolmNathaniel)

RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/10/2012 1:37:20 AM

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If you want to be the best that you can be then I'll tell you simply what that looks like to me.

When I think of a "slave" I'm thinking of an owned human... literally. A person who sees themselves as my property. Aside from the internal self-image, I'm looking for someone who actively throws them self into the task of following and supporting whatever lead I set. So if you wanted to be the best that you could be for me what you would do is pay attention to what I'm trying to get done and facilitate it -- with diligence and strength. You would be prepared to follow my lead, inside and out, no matter how ridiculous or life-threatening or horrible the lead seemed to you.

Honestly, you give me all that and then questions like yours pale into insignificance. Sure I like to know what Carol hopes for. I love the woman. That knowledge helps me to craft a happy marriage. But at no point between Carol and I is there ever any question about whether she will abandon whatever she wanted in favor of what I want. So when Carol says, "I want..." that's just data. It's not a demand and it doesn't come with any expectation attached. In that way she helps me to manage our marriage without seeking to take control.

As a possibly interesting aside, I used the collaring of Carol to make her more open about her desires, not less. Carol, now that I think on it, thought about this like you do before I collared her. So frequently it was like pulling teeth to find out what she wanted. When I collared her things changed. Then, a request for information like, "Where would you like to go to dinner tonight?" contains within it an implied command. So it would be directly disobedient (and cost her the collar) to not answer fully and completely. In addition, I hammered home that I was her master now, not her husband. So she doesn't need to feel like expressing a desire is imposing on me. I'm the guy in charge. She can't impose on me. Since becoming my property, Carol has become both more open and more argumentative -- or at least willing to support her viewpoint if contrary to mine. I think those are both very good things because it helps me to engage with the woman I love so dearly. And, it's always true that if I don't like the viewpoint I can simply command her to change it.

There's just one guy's view on things. I hope it helps.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to ScoutsHonor)

RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/10/2012 4:42:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ScoutsHonor

As a sub with an over active imagination I am always fantasizing about rules or commands that I would love for a Dom to make. My question is, would shareing these fantasies or asking for the rules be topping from the bottom, because that's something I really don't want to do, even on accident.

Let me turn this question around on the OP (sorry).
If you are a true sub, how can you serve your Dom without giving him everything?
That includes your secret desires, your fantasies, your thoughts, your being...
If you keep your true self locked up, and don't give that to your Dom, how can you truly surrender yourself?
So be a good sub and give your Dom your inner self, not just a plastic plaything...

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(in reply to ScoutsHonor)

RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/10/2012 9:46:06 AM

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The answer is YES. According to the "Little Black Book of Rules and Regulations of BDSM", on page 628, paragraph 6 ...
and if you are still confused ... please watch the Story of O, and that will give you the complete guide of how your world is supposed to operate on a daily basis.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScoutsHonor

As a sub with an over active imagination I am always fantasizing about rules or commands that I would love for a Dom to make. My question is, would shareing these fantasies or asking for the rules be topping from the bottom, because that's something I really don't want to do, even on accident.

< Message edited by JanahX -- 3/10/2012 10:14:02 AM >

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RE: Would I be topping from the bottom? - 3/10/2012 9:57:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

I hate to break the news for you but topping from the bottom doesnt exist..

Its emotional manipulation used by weak insecure and unskilled dominants, who cannot inspire a submissive to obey with out using extremely dirty tricks. Like making a submissive feel bad.. for their own short comings.

Think of it this way, if you are "topping from the bottom" It means your partners "bottoming from the top" Because how do you get control or manipulate a situation, unless the dominant is not in control or is allowing it? Not very domly dom behavior now is it?

Oh, it exists. You are correct that the way a dom handles it is the test of how domly they are. There are pro clients (I've heard) who say "I want this and that done to me." Their pros may respond by telling them "No, I will not be topped by the bottom." (I read about it in a book once, I swear.)

In the non-pro scene, there are subs who try to make a dom service their personal kinks. Though they don't say it, there is a definite My Way or the Highway attitude there. If the dom won't dom the way the sub wants, then the sub will hit the road. That I didn't have to learn from any book.

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)

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