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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/24/2012 10:00:54 AM   
xssve


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Nobody fucking knows "what god want's or expects from us" - no - body - nobody knows if there is a god or not, it's bullshit, what makes you think you know more than I do what god fucking wants? You don't, so save it, I'm not buying.

It's fucking vaporware, gods plan for me doesn't involve falling yet another line of shit, believe me, I get plenty of that on a daily basis, this is just one more.

God is fine with that, although there are not a few snake oil salesmen that aren't too happy about gods plan for me.

_____________________________

Walking nightmare...

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/24/2012 11:11:59 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
Examine what I wrote more carefully.


Examine what you wrote more carefully. I've been asking you to do that since page 12.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/24/2012 11:42:30 AM   
BenevolentM


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Humanism expressly states that man is God, though it is inferred it is a thing that can be inferred immediately. As such it is an affront to all things Holy. It is Blasphemy. But isn't about us? Belief in God is not about what man is at present, but what man can become. To become what we were intended to become one must look to God.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/24/2012 11:58:38 AM   
BenevolentM


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The Nicene Creed

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation,
he came down from heaven:

by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.

For our sake he was crucified
under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered died and was buried.

On the third day he rose again
in fulfillment of the Scriptures;

he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the
Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy
catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one
baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.

Amen.


http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/credo.htm

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/24/2012 12:03:26 PM   
BenevolentM


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In other words, humanism is as taboo as it gets.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/24/2012 12:10:24 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Belief in God is not about what man is at present, but what man can become.

When Frank Wilczek, Nobel Laureate in Physics, was asked if God existed, he reflected on the incredible unfoldment of consciousness from the earliest barely sentient lifeforms to modern human beings, and projecting that process forward he answered, "Not yet."

K.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/24/2012 12:19:22 PM   
MrBukani


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Amen bless you.
I have said my piece and have little else to add.
Except that the vatican will never get my vote of approval, until they will admit their sinfull acts towards humanity through the ages.
If they will admit that they have killed many innocent people maybe I will forgive them.
Untill then the Vatican is my sworn enemy till death do us part.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/24/2012 12:23:54 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM page 19 post 363

... To become what we were intended to become one must look to God.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata page 19 post 366

When Frank Wilczek, Nobel Laureate in Physics, was asked if God existed, he reflected on the incredible unfoldment of consciousness from the earliest barely sentient lifeforms to modern human beings, and projecting that process forward he answered, "Not yet."


To become what we were intended to become one must look to God, the Creator. Though the point is contentious, it stands to reason that since man in particular is not entirely natural that we must look to our Creator in much the same way we look to our fathers to help define us. Whether we accept or reject our father, we came from him and he came before us. God the Father, on the other hand, is the Alpha and the Omega.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/24/2012 12:31:22 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

To become what we were intended to become one must look to God...

If there's a God, I'd be inclined to think that we're gonna get where he wants us to go whether we like it or not.

I'd say it's more a choice between the easy way and the hard way.

K.




< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/24/2012 12:34:25 PM >

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/24/2012 12:34:08 PM   
MrBukani


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Thanks for reminding me of my dad, everybody loved the fucker and he spewed his hate at me. And I am created in his exact image, like a carbon copy everybody says. He died when I was 10. I am not real happy with that but hey thats how life deals some people aces and some jacks.
Therefor I must conclude he is an asshole just like me, he could just hide it better. And like God he never really talked to me.
It maybe personal but I see so many resemblances.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/24/2012 2:40:47 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Thanks for reminding me of my dad, everybody loved the fucker and he spewed his hate at me. And I am created in his exact image, like a carbon copy everybody says. He died when I was 10. I am not real happy with that but hey thats how life deals some people aces and some jacks.

Therefor I must conclude he is an asshole just like me, he could just hide it better. And like God he never really talked to me.

It maybe personal but I see so many resemblances.



That is a hard thing to come to terms with. If your father was evil, then in a sense you are evil. If your father was good, then in a sense you are good. Accept or reject either way you are screwed. That's evil for you MrBukani. It is the thing we must rise above, but to do this one must do things that do not seem natural like Saint Maria Goretti.

She was raped, but granted her rapist forgiveness. We are to conquer sin, not enjoy life per se. It seems reasonable to me to say that you want to get back at your father, but this can only result in self-hatred and self-destruction. It is for you to conquer the sin, but to do this you must know the difference between right and wrong, that is you must rise above the many deceptions and illusions. The resolution of right and wrong often involves problems that are computationally infeasible. What this means is either God has to enlighten us or we must do the best we can and hope for the best.


quote:

http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=78

St. Maria Goretti

Feastday: July 6

Patron of youth, young women, purity, and victims of rape
1890 - 1902

Born in Corinaldo, Ancona, Italy, on October 16 1890; her farmworker father moved his family to Ferrier di Conca, near Anzio. Her father died of malaria and her mother had to struggle to feed her children.

In 1902 an eighteen-year-old neighbor, Alexander, grabbed her from her steps and tried to rape her. When Maria said that she would rather died than submit, Alexander began stabbing her with a knife.

As she lay in the hospital, she forgave Alexander before she died. Her death didn't end her forgivness, however.

Alexander was captured and sentenced to thirty years. He was unrepentant until he had a dream that he was in a garden. Maria was there and gave him flowers. When he woke, he was a changed man, repenting of his crime and living a reformed life. When he was released after 27 years he went directly to Maria's mother to beg her forgiveness, which she gave. "If my daughter can forgive him, who am I to withold forgiveness," she said.

When Maria was declared a saint in 1950, Alexander was there in the St. Peter's crowd to celebrate her canonization. She was canonized by Pope Pius XII in 1950 for her purity as model for youth.

She is called a martyr because she fought against Alexander's attempts at sexual assault. However, the most important aspect of her story is her forgiveness of her attacker -- her concern for her enemy extending even beyond death. Her feast day is July 6. St. Maria Goretti is the patroness of youth and for the victims of rape.



Incidentally, I'm into female Saints. What a beautiful story: 'He was unrepentant until he had a dream that he was in a garden. Maria was there and gave him flowers. When he woke, he was a changed man, repenting of his crime and living a reformed life. When he was released after 27 years he went directly to Maria's mother to beg her forgiveness, which she gave. "If my daughter can forgive him, who am I to withold forgiveness," she said.'

Become beauty.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/24/2012 5:10:25 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

... Except that the vatican will never get my vote of approval, until they will admit their sinfull acts towards humanity through the ages.
If they will admit that they have killed many innocent people maybe I will forgive them.
Untill then the Vatican is my sworn enemy till death do us part.



I suspect you explained your reasons to me privately already. I too must make sense of the Inquisition. I recall a judge of the inquisition who became a saint. He became a judge because he was saintly. He would have told you to conquer sin too.

quote:

http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/

One of Wycliffe's followers, John Hus, actively promoted Wycliffe's ideas: that people should be permitted to read the Bible in their own language, and they should oppose the tyranny of the Roman church that threatened anyone possessing a non-Latin Bible with execution. Hus was burned at the stake in 1415, with Wycliffe's manuscript Bibles used as kindling for the fire.


I personally side with the Church. No good came from translating the Bible into other languages. He was not an agent of good. There are many tyrannies in this world. If the Church is a tyranny at least it is God's tyranny. Anything that belongs to God is better than the alternative.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/24/2012 8:18:50 PM   
MrBukani


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Yes I am sworn to respect my father one day for his mistakes. But I dont know if you can relate to breaking a cycle.
Its fuckin hard.
And I was a hardass kid to raise, I know that.
But the problem is they didnt give me a choice really.
And any kid should have a choice.
Do you really think I wanna be here fighting you or the pope?
I just do what my heart tells me, backed up by concious reasoning.
Cause if ever God talked to anybody, it is through reason from the heart.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/24/2012 8:31:04 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

I personally side with the Church... If the Church is a tyranny at least it is God's tyranny. Anything that belongs to God is better than the alternative.

Then you don't believe in God. What you believe in is the Church, and you might as well be honest about it.

K.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/25/2012 9:26:54 AM   
BenevolentM


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Concerning the Inquisition, was it shrewd of me to say anything? Not especially, but it does serve a purpose.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/25/2012 9:40:26 AM   
youngdom25


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Are Buddhists atheists? I do not feel Buddhists are atheists by intent. Buddhists that are not tied to the old world on the other hand are often people who have expressly rejected the Creator.


speaking as a buddhist (not a very good one but a buddhist all the same) I think atheism is silly, for although I believe the strictist definition is a rejection of religions and gods, most seem to ''know'' that there isn't a god of any sort. One can never know such a thing until it is too late to report your findings.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/25/2012 11:20:25 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: youngdom25
speaking as a buddhist (not a very good one but a buddhist all the same) I think atheism is silly, for although I believe the strictist definition is a rejection of religions and gods, most seem to ''know'' that there isn't a god of any sort. One can never know such a thing until it is too late to report your findings.


quote:

ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2][3] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3][4] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[5][6] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[6][7]


There's nothing about religions in there, as a Buddhist it's entirely likely that you're an atheist.

Atheism just like theism isn't a worldview, it's a label that can be applied to various positions. Positions like skepticism, methodological naturalism and apatheism don't claim "to know that that there isn't a god of any sort" despite the propaganda to the contrary. Positions such as philosophical naturalism claim knowledge (not in the sense of having proof that there isn't a god of any sort) in the sense of having a theory which doesn't involve gods.

That's not to say that there aren't certain positions that fall under the mantle of atheism that I don't consider silly. Raƫlism and certain forms of Buddhism are examples of atheist positions that I consider silly.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/25/2012 11:34:19 AM   
BenevolentM


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If Buddhists desire truth, then Buddhists aren't really atheists. Atheists find truth inconvenient. Atheists prefer magick.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/25/2012 11:50:40 AM   
BenevolentM


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Atheists are likely able to comprehend the rules of the road that have been set down by others and can play critic, but are they the source of morality or are they a consumer of morality? What I am accusing atheists of being I suppose is Ayn Rand second handers. They figure that there is enough oil that it can be consumed recklessly.

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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/25/2012 12:27:27 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/second-handers.html

Second Handers

They have no concern for facts, ideas, work. They're concerned only with people. They don't ask: "Is this true?" They ask: "Is this what others think is true?" ... What would happen to the world without those who do, think, work, produce?



It would go to hell in a handbasket.

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