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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:06:42 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
What you fail to grasp is that the presumption of innocence doesn't mean a person is not arrested, and that evidence is not collected because the police jump to that conclusion. Guilt or innocence is determined by a judge or jury, it doesn't excuse the police from doing their job to collect evidence either way.

Further, you assume that Zimmerman was of sound mind. If a person high on drugs hears voices telling him that the mailman is plotting to kill him, he might legitimately be in fear for his life when he shoots the mailman going about his business, but he wouldn't escape legal corrections just because he said so, and the police don't get to not investigate by saying "could be true" and walking away.

There's no evidence that Zimmerman wasn't drunk or high when he made his observations, or that he was rational in feeling threatened.


What you fail to grasp is that if the cops can't find evidence enough to dispute his claim, and the prosecutor says he won't charge him, there is no need to arrest.

(in reply to 4u2spoil)
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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:08:35 PM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
Well, that should be good enough for everyone. Let's ask Trayvon Mart- oh wait, he's the one who ended up with a bullet in his chest, and no tests conducted to support Zimmerman's claim that after recordings of Martin screaming at the top of his lungs for help, Martin beat and chased a fleeing Zimmerman to the point where he was in such fear that he had no choice but to use deadly force.


And now you're just reaching for fairytales. Alright fine. Let's have the cops just go around arresting anyone they like without evidence of any crime, that will work out so wonderfully.

(in reply to 4u2spoil)
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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:09:57 PM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil

Wait - I thought it was unreasonable to expect the police to put any man hours into petty crime.


Zimmerman isn't a cop. He's free to care about his neighbors. Keep reaching.

(in reply to 4u2spoil)
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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:11:34 PM   
MrBukani


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil

Wait - I thought it was unreasonable to expect the police to put any man hours into petty crime.


Zimmerman isn't a cop. He's free to care about his neighbors. Keep reaching.

The family of martin was his neighbor.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:12:51 PM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
What's implausible, and why Martin absolutely gets to be portrayed as the innocent child is that there's absolutely zero evidence of him approaching Zimmerman,


There's the exact same amount of evidence of that possibility as there is of Zimmerman "cornering and murdering a kid" -- none.

(in reply to 4u2spoil)
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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:17:07 PM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray

Seriously, this ALL could have been avoided if Zimmerman hadn't racially profiled. It's dangerous for ALL parties involved.

Gee, that's a tough call. I mean, follow me here, if a gated community has been suffering a series of break-ins by young blacks, and as you drive along through the streets of the community you notice an old Hispanic lady, a couple of white kids, a middle-aged black guy, and then down the block a ways a black youth, your brain is going to click on him. We're wired that way.

And, too, it's not just plain and simple racial (read "racist") profiling. It's also age profiling and location profiling. It doesn't mean that you think every black you see anywhere, male or female, young or old, is a potential home invader. Or even that you think he is. But if you decide to follow a ways to see what he's up to, and he tries to evade you, well... click. Now he fits a behavioral profile. People who are up to no good tend to prefer to avoid being observed at it.

I know full well that pure and simple racist (let's use the right word) profiling happens, and I agree it's grossly unfair and dangerous. But it seems to me that a lot of people are on a hair-trigger to read racism into just about anything and everything they see these days. It's the accusation du jour. And that, too, is grossly unfair and dangerous.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/24/2012 10:39:41 PM >

(in reply to VioletGray)
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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:18:15 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Again do you want guncrazy neighborhood watchers?

We have a neighborhood watch in amsterdam.
Its called the morrocan fathers, they do good work talkin to the kids.
They just talk.

Do you want security guards or neighborhood watches.

If zimmerman really cares about society and not just his own damn street he could have become a security guard, or police officer.

Do you think he would have passed the test of a police officer?
Do you want him to pass right now?

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 407
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:24:01 PM   
KurtKaboom


Posts: 203
Joined: 2/11/2007
Status: offline 		If Trayvon was homophobic, and thot Zimmerman was coming on to him, then it was a justyfiabel defense against a hate crime.

_____________________________

You love hating yourself for loving me

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 408
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:25:33 PM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Sound to me like a "You answer my question first!" pissing match. Add testosterone, shake well and serve.


Bingo. The phrase I keep hearing people throw around (especially his family and good ol' sharpton) is "a place he was legally allowed to be."

The way they have said this -- the tone, etc. indicates what I can only describe as angst-ridden black...defensiveness...the same kind of feeling that causes a black man to smart off to a cop pulling him over "for no reason," when he's "legit" and not doing anything wrong.

What this suggests to me, given how his parents have repeated the tones and phrases, is that the likely scenario (and yes, just my own non-fact-based opinion) is that Zimmerman was following Martin, Martin noticed. Zimmerman asked Martin what he was doing, Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him. Now Martin becomes offended that "some guy" is asking him why he is where he is when he has "a legal right to be there," and gets angry. Zimmerman feels he stepped in something and tries to break contact, Martin doesn't let it go because he senses hesitation from Zimmerman. Things get physical and Zimmerman, though bigger, is outmatched, panics like a pussy, and shoots.

As I said, my own opinion, and not fact-based at all. Regardless of what occured, Zimmerman states he feared for his safety. As yet, the police and prosecutor cannot yet disprove that. So Zimmerman is free until they get such evidence or until they find no reason to charge him and let it drop.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:28:31 PM   
DarqueMirror


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Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Its even worse if he returned to his car and got a gun out. Cause he had time to think call again follow from a distance etc.
Do you want him as your neighborhood watch?


Considering how many neighborhoods in America follow the "mind your own damned business" and "snitches get stitches" mindsets...yes I do. I'd like knowing a neighbor had my back. It's better than thinking thy might retaliate against me if I speak to the cops.

(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:31:03 PM   
DarqueMirror


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Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
The family of martin was his neighbor.


Not according to reports I've seen, not direct line-of-sight neighbors anyway. The reports have said he followed him between houses and through other people's yards. They may be in the same gated community, but they might not know each other.

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 411
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:40:14 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		That didnt answer my question if you want Zimmerman as a neighbor.
Sorry to say but just by lookin at him and knowing his history, NO.
I never want Zimmie near me.
We have social awareness here in neighborhoods also.
The thing I love about this is the same what happened in holland.
A crazy kid got a gunlicense here and shot 7 people in a mall.
He was known to have psychotherapy.
I would love to see rigorous change in gunlaws.
To be honest ban all fuckin guns.
It works here and just compare the deadly shooting incidents to europe.
You wanna hobby?
Do paintball.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 412
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:42:52 PM   
MrBukani


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A fine for an unlawfull firearm is up to $100,000

Very good yes.
Ban guns Ban war.
What kinda society you wanna live in?

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 3/24/2012 10:43:47 PM >

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 413
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:43:24 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

That didnt answer my question if you want Zimmerman as a neighbor.


Then you need to learn to read.

How can the following sentences be any more clear?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror
Considering how many neighborhoods in America follow the "mind your own damned business" and "snitches get stitches" mindsets...yes I do. I'd like knowing a neighbor had my back.

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 414
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:44:53 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
Ban guns Ban war.
What kinda society you wanna live in?


This shows your ignorance of crime. Here's a cute saying for you, since you seem fond of them:

Outlaw guns and only the outlaws will have them.

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 415
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 10:45:20 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Ok that is clear sorry.
Good to know.
Yes I do I thought was about caring neighbors I read you wrong
MY bad.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 416
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 11:01:59 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		One last thing about prejudice.
Think about this, we judge zimmerman with words.
Zimmerman judged martin with a gun.
peace out.

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 417
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/25/2012 12:10:53 AM   
4u2spoil


Posts: 211
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
No, it just means that the guy wasn't prepared for the defense coming his way. I remember a woman who was a martial arts expert being attacked by a guy in New York. Her attacker obviously didn't know she was a black belt. She laid the guy out on his ass until the police got there and could arrest the ATTACKER. Even though he lost. You seem to be missing the "reasonable" portion of the "reasonable doubt." Sometimes people start fights, and sometimes they lose the fights they start. The outcome of the fight doesn't "prove" anything about who started it.


Apples and oranges. That woman was attacked. Zimmerman only followed and spoke to Martin, who thn followed him as he tried to leave.



Not really. To quote you: were you there? Can you prove that Martin attacked and didn't hit back in self defense?


quote:

No gymnastics necessary. Re-read your accusation. *You* stated there was "plenty of evidence" that Zimmerman followed Martin. There isn't. There's only him saying he was, which is the exact same amount of "evidence" that says Martin was following him back to his truck -- his word.


Fact: there is a recording of Zimmerman confirming that he was following Martin, after a police dispatcher told him "we don't need you to do that."
Fact: there is not a recording of Zimmerman calling anyone to report Martin following him to his truck
Fact: not one witness has corroborated Martin following Zimmerman anywhere. There are various reports that acknowledge a scuffle/fight, and it's open to debate over who started the fist fight, but NOT ONE person reported Zimmerman being followed or chased.

quote:


Don't move the goal posts. Your assertion was that their main function was to prevent crime, not prevent crime from "devolving" once it's in progress


I said prevent and investigate. Obviously if a crime has already occurred, all police can do is investigate. If they can prevent a crime in progress, or a situation from becoming criminal that's their responsibility as well. Preventing crime can mean stopping a minor situation from devolving into a major one. If someone breaks into a house but the police stop the burglar from actually taking anything, they've prevented a case of trespassing from becoming a case of robbery, murder or who knows what else.

Don't get snippy with me because your reading comprehension skills are limited.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/25/2012 12:20:28 AM   
4u2spoil


Posts: 211
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
Well, that should be good enough for everyone. Let's ask Trayvon Mart- oh wait, he's the one who ended up with a bullet in his chest, and no tests conducted to support Zimmerman's claim that after recordings of Martin screaming at the top of his lungs for help, Martin beat and chased a fleeing Zimmerman to the point where he was in such fear that he had no choice but to use deadly force.


And now you're just reaching for fairytales. Alright fine. Let's have the cops just go around arresting anyone they like without evidence of any crime, that will work out so wonderfully.


Let's see. Man has a gun, man shoots person without gun. Yeah, no possible crime there /sarcasm

Since you seem a little dim, what I'm actually saying is that a man shooting a person who does not have a deadly weapon is probably a criminal act which should be investigated. The person responsible for the act should normally be arrested, and justifications for the act should be worked out before a judge. There was sufficient evidence to arrest Zimmerman for manslaughter. This isn't the assassination of JFK where there's a huge mystery about who fired the shot.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 419
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/25/2012 12:53:28 AM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
Not really. To quote you: were you there? Can you prove that Martin attacked and didn't hit back in self defense?


Don't need to. That's for Zimmerman's accusers to prove. Presumption of innocence, remember. I know that phrase is a pesky one. But it's our system.


quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
Fact: there is a recording of Zimmerman confirming that he was following Martin, after a police dispatcher told him "we don't need you to do that."
Fact: there is not a recording of Zimmerman calling anyone to report Martin following him to his truck
Fact: not one witness has corroborated Martin following Zimmerman anywhere. There are various reports that acknowledge a scuffle/fight, and it's open to debate over who started the fist fight, but NOT ONE person reported Zimmerman being followed or chased.


Not one person has said he wasn't followed after trying to break off contact either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
I said prevent and investigate. Obviously if a crime has already occurred, all police can do is investigate. If they can prevent a crime in progress, or a situation from becoming criminal that's their responsibility as well. Preventing crime can mean stopping a minor situation from devolving into a major one. If someone breaks into a house but the police stop the burglar from actually taking anything, they've prevented a case of trespassing from becoming a case of robbery, murder or who knows what else.

Don't get snippy with me because your reading comprehension skills are limited.


You were moving the goal posts and you know it. Back peddling is unbecoming.

(in reply to 4u2spoil)
Profile   Post #: 420
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