RE: The anti pro stance

RE: The anti pro stance (Full Version)

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Zonie63 -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/23/2012 8:42:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Here's the rub. To you it's a personals site. To them, it's not. To tell you the truth, it's not a personals site to Me, either, because I'm not here to date or to find a relationship. I'm here to shoot the shit and talk about kink. The question that has to follow is, which one of us is right? Well, essentially, I'm here just for the boards as well, and that's the main reason I keep my profile active. Just being here to shoot the shit and talk about kink would still fall within the realm of social and personal contact, not commercial. But you raise an interesting point in saying that to the pro-dommes, Collarme is not a personals or social site. Why wouldn't they view it as a personals site? It seems pretty obvious when one looks at the opening page that it's a personals site. There are other sites which cater specifically to those offering professional services, so most people should be able to clearly tell the difference. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact The thing is, we both are because the site can be used for both of those purposes. It also functions well as advertising for those who are using it in that way. In My personal opinion, when people pull up that stuff about professionals being here against TOS, they really haven't thought that through because the site even provides a section specifically for advertising professional services. No different, really, than if you wanted to sell a flogger and market it here. Well, I'm just going by what it says in the Terms of Service, which clearly state: quote: 3.1. The Website provides a forum through which adults may seek and establish personal contact with one another through the use of the Website's capabilities for displaying photographs and written materials provided by its members. quote: 7.3. ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY: You agree and understand that Our Website permits You to use Our services in order to post content and to communicate with other Users. We are entitled to investigate and terminate Your membership if You have misused the Website, or behaved in a way which could be regarded as inappropriate, unlawful, or illegal. The following is a partial, but not exhaustive, list of the types of actions that are illegal or prohibited under this Agreement. ... 7.3.12. You will not use Your profile or any other portion of the Website or Our services to promote any other business enterprise, unless otherwise permitted by collarme.com, nor will you attempt to use any of Our services to promote an escort service, prostitution, web-cams, or any other form of related enterprise; The message board rules might be different, since this site is technically called "collarchat" whereas the other side is called "collarme." I'm not sure about this, so perhaps a moderator would like to clarify the rules on this matter. However, it seems to me that just because there's a section for professional services on the message board, it doesn't automatically follow that it would be acceptable use in someone's profile on the other side. Likewise, just because there's a section on the message board for professional services, it doesn't mean that professionals can advertise in Politics and Religion or other sections of the message board. Whether the site administrators choose to enforce the TOS is another matter and not really any of my business. But since the question was raised by the OP regarding those who are against pro-dommes, I was offering a possible explanation as to why there might be such animosity from some people.

TNDommeK -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/23/2012 10:13:26 AM)
I believe skill comes from experience and knowledge. Not a self proclaimed title.

Madame4a -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/23/2012 10:47:49 AM)
picking a pro is just like picking a partner... you don't stick a pin in a spot in the yellow pages.. if you do that, you get what you deserve... are all pros trained, real, experienced blah blah blah? No... but many are... I know a lot of pros and former pro who were and are ACTIVE members of various leather/bdsm communities... and not just active but make large contributions of their time and experience... no not everyone is like that.. but there are people out there that are...

lizi -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/23/2012 11:43:05 AM)
I think pros are a great resource for those who need their services and I'm glad for one that there are outlets for those who want to avail themselves of the service. That being said, a lot of men show shockingly little sense when it comes to wanting to hand over money to someone to use and abuse them. I have had offers myself that are scary and makes me watch the news to see if a particular person makes it out alive or not. People choose mechanics and landscapers based on professional and personal criteria, I'd hope they would extend that savviness to finding the best person equipped to take care of their kink needs. I don't see much of an anti-pro stance amongst the posters here, it's more of a thing in profiles where men are upset over not finding a partner and their only choice seems to be someone that they'll have to pay. The people in this section of the site seem to have a more measured attitude towards the subject. For myself, I'm glad the pros exist. They seem to fulfill a need, let them do it. I'd hope that they are ethical and learned in what they do. I'd hope that the men seeking their services do research to make sure they will be treated well mentally and physically.

slaverachel2Him -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/23/2012 12:06:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Privileged I’ll preface my questions by saying I am not a professional domme. However, the abuse and attitude I see pro dommes dealing with is troubling. It seems like men who would benefit the most from a pro session are the most vocal about being anti pro. I’m not talking about those seeking a mutually beneficial relationship. I’m talking about men who are solely seeking their own satisfaction. I see a lot of “do it because you love/enjoy/want it” statements. In the case of pain enthusiasts, would you really risk serious injury at the hands of an amateur to avoid paying a professional dominant? I would think a pro domme would know best how to provide after care. Is that not an important enough factor in fetish play? If your aversion to pro sessions goes deeper than “PRO DUMMES R WHORES”, I’d love to hear your thoughts. i know a woman who was a Pro-Domme and she took it very seriously. She learned how to be safe for both herself and the client. She is no longer pro, but a Domme. She knows others and recommends them as she is clear on their safety record. She especially refers men in particular who think they want to sub or slave but are more bottoms. That is where you get the "do me" sub/slaves a Directing right from the profile for many. Many guys who really aren't as submissive as they think can do well with oe because i know the Dommes and Mistresses are WAY tired of guys who claim to be submissive and then go on about what is going to happen. "ill kiss you feet, and then do the dishes, when i'm not fast enough you'll cane me and force me to pleasure you then put on the chastity device and kiss your feet again before i make the bed and do the laundry. then punish me by making me pleasure you again with the cage on. Then you'll make me masturbate in front of the camera painfully hard so i cum, but you'll laugh at me." i have seen this or similar ones over an over- details change, but not the idea. Where is the "How may i serve you Mistress, in this anywhere?" That is why many relationship oriented Dommes and Mistresses refer guys to ProDommes. They can be "done" and not waste their time. They (relationship Dommes) are really in intent no different than male Doms. They want submission, not a "do me" list. This in NO way is referring to male subs/slaves who ARE subs and slaves

Wheldrake -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/23/2012 2:17:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Whenready Wheldrake has a point which I might summarise as "real men don't pay for it..." Also.... I see a lot of “do it because you love/enjoy/want it” statements. I suspect that this could also be paraphrased as "I want it free" or "I can't hide that many cash transactions". Cynical? MOI? I do think there's a bit more to it than that. As a submissive, I'm interested in the motivation of the person dominating me. If I knew that she was just doing it for money, or for some other reason apart from sheer delight in hurting and controlling me, the whole experience would seem less authentic and therefore less exciting. If I were going to see a pro-domme, I would prefer a more expensive one who clearly enjoyed her work to a cheaper one who was indifferent to it, even if they were equally attractive (not a big issue for me in any case), well-equipped and skillful. For me, the emotional and interpersonal context in which an act of BDSM takes place is at least as important as the nature of the act itself. I suspect that some men who "don't pay for it" just feel more strongly about this issue than I do.

steve95476 -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/23/2012 2:22:46 PM)
^^^^^^ Usually the sub's scenario, for sure, no matter how much the pro advertises otherwise. But the "pro" Goddess who introduced me to the lifestyle would never have tolerated that! I came to her as a true sub. We discussed scenes, safe words, safety, and from then on, I was her true and willing slave. She taught me, guided me, cared. I rarely asked for anything other than to serve her. Because that is where my heart was. Not a "do-me" relationship but one based on caring and integrity. I fell in love. She knew it and didn't take advantage of it. We remain loyal friends. Believe it or not, there are still folks like that. Thank goddess![:)]

LadyPact -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/23/2012 3:21:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 Well, essentially, I'm here just for the boards as well, and that's the main reason I keep my profile active. Just being here to shoot the shit and talk about kink would still fall within the realm of social and personal contact, not commercial. But you raise an interesting point in saying that to the pro-dommes, Collarme is not a personals or social site. Why wouldn't they view it as a personals site? It seems pretty obvious when one looks at the opening page that it's a personals site. There are other sites which cater specifically to those offering professional services, so most people should be able to clearly tell the difference. The odd thing about this is that this only comes up when it comes to female professionals. Not even the male professionals, who are on the site as well. It never comes up for any other type of kink related business that people have profiles here for. Not the whip makers, club owners, people selling fetish wear, or any other type of thing. That doesn't sound phrased very well, so I want to make sure that we are on the same page. I happen to be glad the folks who are associated with those businesses are on the site because, as I see it, those people are a part of our community, too. They are at our events, we buy their products, etc. Some of them are even the advertisers that really do pay the bills around here. quote: Well, I'm just going by what it says in the Terms of Service, which clearly state: quote: 3.1. The Website provides a forum through which adults may seek and establish personal contact with one another through the use of the Website's capabilities for displaying photographs and written materials provided by its members. quote: 7.3. ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY: You agree and understand that Our Website permits You to use Our services in order to post content and to communicate with other Users. We are entitled to investigate and terminate Your membership if You have misused the Website, or behaved in a way which could be regarded as inappropriate, unlawful, or illegal. The following is a partial, but not exhaustive, list of the types of actions that are illegal or prohibited under this Agreement. ... 7.3.12. You will not use Your profile or any other portion of the Website or Our services to promote any other business enterprise, unless otherwise permitted by collarme.com, nor will you attempt to use any of Our services to promote an escort service, prostitution, web-cams, or any other form of related enterprise; The message board rules might be different, since this site is technically called "collarchat" whereas the other side is called "collarme." I'm not sure about this, so perhaps a moderator would like to clarify the rules on this matter. However, it seems to me that just because there's a section for professional services on the message board, it doesn't automatically follow that it would be acceptable use in someone's profile on the other side. Likewise, just because there's a section on the message board for professional services, it doesn't mean that professionals can advertise in Politics and Religion or other sections of the message board. Whether the site administrators choose to enforce the TOS is another matter and not really any of my business. But since the question was raised by the OP regarding those who are against pro-dommes, I was offering a possible explanation as to why there might be such animosity from some people. The part about not sticking the ads in Politics and Religion, I'm completely in agreement with you about. I think the forums are set up in a certain way and it's a lot easier to find what you are looking for when using them correctly. The angle that I'm coming from is that you then have to say the same thing about other sections of the boards. Most certainly the "Sought for Sale" forum as well as "Upcoming Events". The sought for sale area even has in it's guidelines that if you want to discuss something about what has been posted/offered to please contact the person through their profile to do so. Up in the Upcoming Events section, they don't have that in the guidelines, but as a person who has posted events there, I can tell you that a person will get some responses on the thread (hopefully) but there will also be those who would prefer to send an email to the profile. Even My own profile clearly states that is why I have it up. It's for when people want to contact Me about munches and events. While I don't make any money personally for those endeavors, I can promise you that somebody does, unless we are talking about those events that specifically related to a not for profit or a charity function. I really can't say much about what the site's owners categorize acceptable commercial related enterprise and what isn't, except for what you've got listed from TOS in the above. I would have to think legal and not legal would be the easiest part to sort, of course, and the rest probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Zonie63 -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/23/2012 7:31:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact The odd thing about this is that this only comes up when it comes to female professionals. Not even the male professionals, who are on the site as well. It never comes up for any other type of kink related business that people have profiles here for. Not the whip makers, club owners, people selling fetish wear, or any other type of thing. I haven't come across any profiles from male professionals or others who might be here for commercial purposes, but in any case, I'm not advocating any double standard here. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact That doesn't sound phrased very well, so I want to make sure that we are on the same page. I happen to be glad the folks who are associated with those businesses are on the site because, as I see it, those people are a part of our community, too. They are at our events, we buy their products, etc. Some of them are even the advertisers that really do pay the bills around here. Well, sure, the paid banner advertisements are a completely different matter. I was referring to the actual profiles where people put their details (age, gender, ht., wt., location, etc.) and what they're actively seeking. Since the profiles are free, I can't see how Collarme would derive revenue from that. The profiles part seems specifically geared for posting and searching personal profiles. This is especially obvious when one looks at the list of what a profile holder might be actively seeking (i.e. Dominant Women, Dominant Men, Submissive Women, Submissive Men, Friends Only, Poly Household, etc.). There's no option for "Actively Seeking Customers/Clients" or anything like that. If such an option did exist, then that would at least remove any ambiguity or confusion over this question. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact The part about not sticking the ads in Politics and Religion, I'm completely in agreement with you about. I think the forums are set up in a certain way and it's a lot easier to find what you are looking for when using them correctly. The angle that I'm coming from is that you then have to say the same thing about other sections of the boards. Most certainly the "Sought for Sale" forum as well as "Upcoming Events". The sought for sale area even has in it's guidelines that if you want to discuss something about what has been posted/offered to please contact the person through their profile to do so. Up in the Upcoming Events section, they don't have that in the guidelines, but as a person who has posted events there, I can tell you that a person will get some responses on the thread (hopefully) but there will also be those who would prefer to send an email to the profile. Even My own profile clearly states that is why I have it up. It's for when people want to contact Me about munches and events. While I don't make any money personally for those endeavors, I can promise you that somebody does, unless we are talking about those events that specifically related to a not for profit or a charity function. I really can't say much about what the site's owners categorize acceptable commercial related enterprise and what isn't, except for what you've got listed from TOS in the above. I would have to think legal and not legal would be the easiest part to sort, of course, and the rest probably lies somewhere in the middle. On the message boards, having different sections makes perfect sense, as that's just a matter of organizing the boards and making it easier for users to select the sections they're interested in. If I'm looking through Politics and Religion, I would hope that the threads would be within the scope of those particular topics. If they weren't, then it would get too confusing, unwieldy, and a bit difficult to utilize for the end user. If a board gets inundated with off-topic and spam threads, it ends up becoming practically unusable. Users would have cause to complain about it, too. But the solution is relatively easy by keeping things organized in different sections by topic. Similarly, the same thing could probably be done on the profiles side as well by adding a few more options and filters within the search parameters. Since this issue comes up quite often, I can't understand why such an obvious solution isn't given any consideration. That's why I'm always a bit baffled whenever this issue comes up, since there seems to be a lot of complaints from both sides, but nobody wants to listen to any possible solutions.

DesFIP -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/23/2012 8:08:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverachel2Him Many guys who really aren't as submissive as they think can do well with oe because i know the Dommes and Mistresses are WAY tired of guys who claim to be submissive and then go on about what is going to happen. "ill kiss you feet, and then do the dishes, when i'm not fast enough you'll cane me and force me to pleasure you then put on the chastity device and kiss your feet again before i make the bed and do the laundry. then punish me by making me pleasure you again with the cage on. Then you'll make me masturbate in front of the camera painfully hard so i cum, but you'll laugh at me." i have seen this or similar ones over an over- details change, but not the idea. Where is the "How may i serve you Mistress, in this anywhere?" What you're missing in this is that these are the guys who may well be submissive but have never been in such a relationship, nor do they know much more about it then what they see in porn. So they're overwhelmed by desires they've kept hidden all their lives. And thus, that's why this is all they focus on in their profiles and emails. Most of us start by looking for what we want, which can well include kink compatibility and satisfaction of those desires. I know I did. But it isn't until you have a chance to experience it, and thus don't have these needs all pent up and overwhelming that you can then think about what comes next. If someone had said to me when I was looking that I shouldn't focus on what I needed, but instead focus solely on him, and by the way I'm never going to be able to eat peas or strawberry ice cream again, I'd have said no thanks. I'd have stayed with fantasy. By the time it came about though, we had already established a mutually satisfying relationship and now it isn't nearly as frightening as it would have seemed in the beginning before I had any real knowledge of what a relationship like this is. Because I really think that a power relationship must be experienced to be understood. In the same way that a person who never dated throughout high school may well dream of a relationship but with no real conception of what it entails.

LadyPact -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 5:34:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 I haven't come across any profiles from male professionals or others who might be here for commercial purposes, but in any case, I'm not advocating any double standard here. No, and please understand that I am not saying that you are. Rather, I am just pointing out that whenever these types of threads come up, especially about professionals, one can't help but notice that one gender, rather than both, becomes the focus. I did have a peek at your profile to see your location. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the kink community in your area, so I'm not able to say that I know any of the kink related business persons in your city. If I remember right, there is a gentleman semi-locally to you who has/had a profile here who does sell toys. Of course, you may not see his profile depending on how your own search parameters are set. quote: Well, sure, the paid banner advertisements are a completely different matter. I was referring to the actual profiles where people put their details (age, gender, ht., wt., location, etc.) and what they're actively seeking. Since the profiles are free, I can't see how Collarme would derive revenue from that. The profiles part seems specifically geared for posting and searching personal profiles. This is especially obvious when one looks at the list of what a profile holder might be actively seeking (i.e. Dominant Women, Dominant Men, Submissive Women, Submissive Men, Friends Only, Poly Household, etc.). There's no option for "Actively Seeking Customers/Clients" or anything like that. I can see how adding that last bit might be more convenient for some. I can't say that I know very much about what it would take to implement it. I literally no nothing about website design or what it would cost to change that option on the drop down menu. I also have to admit that wouldn't be My first choice if anything were to be added in that section. I'd have to say that I'm more inclined to say adding the options of top and bottom would possibly be the more effective change than adding pro and client. quote: If such an option did exist, then that would at least remove any ambiguity or confusion over this question. Perhaps. Then, we also have to get into whether those designations would be used by everyone who is only here for that reason. The business owners that I know who are on the site would still probably check the friends box as well, because I think that would also be correct. I say this because they are also friends, even when business transactions aren't involved. quote: On the message boards, having different sections makes perfect sense, as that's just a matter of organizing the boards and making it easier for users to select the sections they're interested in. If I'm looking through Politics and Religion, I would hope that the threads would be within the scope of those particular topics. If they weren't, then it would get too confusing, unwieldy, and a bit difficult to utilize for the end user. If a board gets inundated with off-topic and spam threads, it ends up becoming practically unusable. Users would have cause to complain about it, too. But the solution is relatively easy by keeping things organized in different sections by topic. I believe this as well. quote: Similarly, the same thing could probably be done on the profiles side as well by adding a few more options and filters within the search parameters. Since this issue comes up quite often, I can't understand why such an obvious solution isn't given any consideration. That's why I'm always a bit baffled whenever this issue comes up, since there seems to be a lot of complaints from both sides, but nobody wants to listen to any possible solutions. Again, I don't know anything about website design, so I really don't know what that would cost to make that kind of a change. I am a bit confused about saying that there are complaints on both sides. Are you meaning on both the profiles side and the forums side? I could probably agree with that up to a point. I tend to think it gets brought from the profile side specifically to the forum side, but most of the people who participate on the forums regularly don't get stirred up about it. I do have to say that I've enjoyed discussing the topic with you. Sometimes, threads about pros around here get much more heated and angry sounding. I'm very glad that hasn't happened on this occasion.

Kana -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 5:53:02 AM)
I'm anti-pro simply because I haven't yet found anyone who will pay me to top em :-) On a more serious note, technically, and I mean just that- technically as in according to the terms of service, aren't folks not allowed to charge or ask for money, which means that any and all pro's on here are violating TOS? Not only that, but all it takes is one wingnut politico to decide that by allowing folks to charge for services, CM is running a prostitution site, opening the door to possibly charging the site and the owners and maybe even to shut it down, at least until things get sorted out in court

FrostedFlake -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 6:56:23 AM)
Kana makes a point worthy of careful consideration. Is anyone willing to write him a check?

MrBukani -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 7:13:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kana I'm anti-pro simply because I haven't yet found anyone who will pay me to top em :-) On a more serious note, technically, and I mean just that- technically as in according to the terms of service, aren't folks not allowed to charge or ask for money, which means that any and all pro's on here are violating TOS? Not only that, but all it takes is one wingnut politico to decide that by allowing folks to charge for services, CM is running a prostitution site, opening the door to possibly charging the site and the owners and maybe even to shut it down, at least until things get sorted out in court [:D][:D][:D] CM is in violation of its own TOS [:D] Something to ponder about. BUT thats why they ask tribute and have amazon wishlists. Gifts is not sending or paying money for service. Some are smart cookies ya know.

Kana -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 7:50:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani quote: ORIGINAL: Kana I'm anti-pro simply because I haven't yet found anyone who will pay me to top em :-) On a more serious note, technically, and I mean just that- technically as in according to the terms of service, aren't folks not allowed to charge or ask for money, which means that any and all pro's on here are violating TOS? Not only that, but all it takes is one wingnut politico to decide that by allowing folks to charge for services, CM is running a prostitution site, opening the door to possibly charging the site and the owners and maybe even to shut it down, at least until things get sorted out in court [:D][:D][:D] CM is in violation of its own TOS [:D] Something to ponder about. BUT thats why they ask tribute and have amazon wishlists. Gifts is not sending or paying money for service. Some are smart cookies ya know. That's fancy dancing any third tier school law student could drive a mack truck through. Income is income and the IRS tends to paint with a very broad brush here. I'm asking this as a serious question-What's to keep some whackjob zealot prosecutor from East ButtFuck Mississsippi or the home of the Westboro Baptist freaks from deciding that by facilitating the trading of sexual services for value, CM ain't running a brothel and filing charges, shutting down the site instantly...or at least causing loads and loads of trouble until a judge, (And then another and another and another as the appeals process is used) makes a call?

MrBukani -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 8:04:13 AM)
Yes I know, but if I come clean your house as a friend or cook for you when you are sick, the IRS will have a tough cookie to crack. And I thought prostitution was somewhat legal in Nevada, so maybe there is a glitch there too. And gifts can be taxdeductable. So there is a whole range of reasoning to get around the IRS. Mind you I am dutch so I dont know too much about the US.

Kana -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 8:29:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani Yes I know, but if I come clean your house as a friend or cook for you when you are sick, the IRS will have a tough cookie to crack. And I thought prostitution was somewhat legal in Nevada, so maybe there is a glitch there too. And gifts can be tax deductable. So there is a whole range of reasoning to get around the IRS. Mind you I am dutch so I dont know too much about the US. The IRS looks at three basic things 1-Was there a contract, implied or expressed. (Implied contracts are what we are discussing here. The contract is implied because the next two requirements are filled) 2-Was a service performed? 3-Was proportional value received in reciprocation for said service? If these three things exist (And I would argue that in almost every pro-dom meet these three factors occur, else why meet?), then the IRS is gonna call it income..with few exceptions. So yeah, I can easily see a case against CM for facilitating prostitution.

LoreBook -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 8:54:08 AM)
I guess that would depend on the definition of prostitution in the jurisdiction in question. I'm not certain, but I think that the laws of wherever the site is based are what apply. Anybody know for sure how that works?

subbyinlosangele -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 9:08:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Privileged I’ll preface my questions by saying I am not a professional domme. However, the abuse and attitude I see pro dommes dealing with is troubling. It seems like men who would benefit the most from a pro session are the most vocal about being anti pro. I’m not talking about those seeking a mutually beneficial relationship. I’m talking about men who are solely seeking their own satisfaction. I see a lot of “do it because you love/enjoy/want it” statements. In the case of pain enthusiasts, would you really risk serious injury at the hands of an amateur to avoid paying a professional dominant? I would think a pro domme would know best how to provide after care. Is that not an important enough factor in fetish play? If your aversion to pro sessions goes deeper than “PRO DUMMES R WHORES”, I’d love to hear your thoughts. Personally, I wouldn't go to a pro domme anymore than I would pay a prostitute for sex. If someone else does that I have no problem. But for me turning this into a business transaction would eliminate much of the enjoyment that I would get from it. That's because for me the particular kink or activity is much less important than the underlying dynamic. And if the foundation of the exchange was me purchasing a service, that dynamic would be unsatisfying for me.

MrBukani -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 9:27:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LoreBook I guess that would depend on the definition of prostitution in the jurisdiction in question. I'm not certain, but I think that the laws of wherever the site is based are what apply. Anybody know for sure how that works? Then I will invite any prostitution sites to cum to Holland. Its legal here.[:D] Yes I think it does apply like with gambling sites. But countries are free to block those sites if they are against their own law.

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