RE: The anti pro stance

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switchblademoi -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 9:33:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kana quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani quote: ORIGINAL: Kana I'm anti-pro simply because I haven't yet found anyone who will pay me to top em :-) On a more serious note, technically, and I mean just that- technically as in according to the terms of service, aren't folks not allowed to charge or ask for money, which means that any and all pro's on here are violating TOS? Not only that, but all it takes is one wingnut politico to decide that by allowing folks to charge for services, CM is running a prostitution site, opening the door to possibly charging the site and the owners and maybe even to shut it down, at least until things get sorted out in court [:D][:D][:D] CM is in violation of its own TOS [:D] Something to ponder about. BUT thats why they ask tribute and have amazon wishlists. Gifts is not sending or paying money for service. Some are smart cookies ya know. That's fancy dancing any third tier school law student could drive a mack truck through. Income is income and the IRS tends to paint with a very broad brush here. I'm asking this as a serious question-What's to keep some whackjob zealot prosecutor from East ButtFuck Mississsippi or the home of the Westboro Baptist freaks from deciding that by facilitating the trading of sexual services for value, CM ain't running a brothel and filing charges, shutting down the site instantly...or at least causing loads and loads of trouble until a judge, (And then another and another and another as the appeals process is used) makes a call? What you describe is highly unlikely. The TOS, as you can imagine, are carefully written and require people to agree they will not do anything that violates the laws of their state. CM also makes it clear that it doesn't vet profiles or monitor exchanges. So even if people engage in illegal activities, it's hard to imagine that CM is complicit, especially since the site does not directly profit from those activities.

LoreBook -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 9:44:33 AM)
quote: Then I will invite any prostitution sites to cum to Holland. Its legal here. I'll keep that in mind should I fall behind on my student loan payments.

VioletViolence -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 5:34:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel I can completely understand men here who are looking for a relationship getting fed up and venting about having to wade through the women who are looking to get paid just as I understand the women here who are looking for a relationship getting fed up and venting about having to wade through the men who are looking for a kink delivery system. How brilliantly succinct! However, I would add that a good chunk of the guys who are complaining are the ones who are just looking for a kink delivery system under the guise of wanting D/s. Those gents make me want to pull my hair out...not sure what it's like on the other side, suppose there could be Dommes who do the same sort of thing.

DesFIP -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 7:24:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kana I'm asking this as a serious question-What's to keep some whackjob zealot prosecutor from East ButtFuck Mississsippi or the home of the Westboro Baptist freaks from deciding that by facilitating the trading of sexual services for value, CM ain't running a brothel and filing charges, shutting down the site instantly...or at least causing loads and loads of trouble until a judge, (And then another and another and another as the appeals process is used) makes a call? Because when you send a gift via Amazon wishlist to someone you've never met, you aren't having any kinds of sex with them? In fact, no prodommes that I know of have sexual contact with their clients.

Kana -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 8:26:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP quote: ORIGINAL: Kana I'm asking this as a serious question-What's to keep some whackjob zealot prosecutor from East ButtFuck Mississsippi or the home of the Westboro Baptist freaks from deciding that by facilitating the trading of sexual services for value, CM ain't running a brothel and filing charges, shutting down the site instantly...or at least causing loads and loads of trouble until a judge, (And then another and another and another as the appeals process is used) makes a call? Because when you send a gift via Amazon wishlist to someone you've never met, you aren't having any kinds of sex with them? In fact, no prodommes that I know of have sexual contact with their clients. And that may be true, but it only needs one overzealous prosecutor to feel otherwise and that's all it takes to file charges and really gum things up. I've talked to two lawyers, a cop and a forensic investigator today about this, all agree that this is kinda sticky legal ground, but none of em could come up with a reason why a prosecutor couldn't charge such a case. They all agreed it was at least reasonably possible... Note-again, I ain't taking sides either way, I really don't care what folks do in their private lives behind bedroom doors as long as it's between consenting adults (Chuckles-or the dog is at least three!) but I do think it's an interesting legal conundrum. Edited to add that mostly I am talking bout FtF meets, not internet or phone sex.

subbyinlosangele -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/24/2012 8:49:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kana And that may be true, but it only needs one overzealous prosecutor to feel otherwise and that's all it takes to file charges and really gum things up. I've talked to two lawyers, a cop and a forensic investigator today about this, all agree that this is kinda sticky legal ground, but none of em could come up with a reason why a prosecutor couldn't charge such a case. They all agreed it was at least reasonably possible... It seems like a dubious legal position, and I doubt a prosecutor would want to waste his agency's time and resources on something like this. It's not it would get prostitutes off the street or provide much political benefit.

Zonie63 -> RE: The anti pro stance (3/25/2012 11:47:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Again, I don't know anything about website design, so I really don't know what that would cost to make that kind of a change. I am a bit confused about saying that there are complaints on both sides. Are you meaning on both the profiles side and the forums side? I could probably agree with that up to a point. I tend to think it gets brought from the profile side specifically to the forum side, but most of the people who participate on the forums regularly don't get stirred up about it. This is true, although in all fairness, I have seen how people complaining about pro- and fin-dommes in the forums seem to get quite a few responses from posters who don't like to read those kinds of complaints. In fact, I just came across another such thread in the off-topic section, in which the OP of that thread made a similar suggestion. Also, I've noticed complaints from others who speak of do-me subs, men who send cock shots, men who think this is a sex site for quick hook-ups, men who view women as fetish delivery systems, etc. While I can empathize with such complaints, I would suggest there could be a connection between the proliferation of pro- and fin-dommes and the character types of the men who gravitate towards the site as a result. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I do have to say that I've enjoyed discussing the topic with you. Sometimes, threads about pros around here get much more heated and angry sounding. I'm very glad that hasn't happened on this occasion. Thanks, same here. For me personally, this isn't really a topic that breaks the barrier of something that I would get worked up or heated over. As far as this forum is concerned, the only topics that get me riled up are in Politics and Religion. But even then, I guess I've developed a thicker skin over the years, so very little fazes me anymore.

LadyConstanze -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/7/2012 9:12:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Oddly enough, I am somewhat anti-pro...... For Myself. It's just not the place I am at in My spirituality just now. It isn't the right choice to make. For Me. Could I? You bet. A lot of the gals who pass for pros these days aren't at My level as a top and I fully admit My bias in comparing their skill levels to Mine. I know I shouldn't, but I can't help Myself. Fortunately, over the years, I've known some wonderfully skilled pros and that balances out My thinking a bit. The ones who really are good at their field and deserve the label professional. That helps a bit. I think that has a lot to do with the tanked economy, you know most successful pros always had the smarts and ability to have a vanilla career too. Pro-domming isn't as easy as people think, first of all you have to be skilled, then your looks have to be damned well maintained, your equipment has to be top notch, your ads have to be in the right place, then it's not about what you want, you have to deliver a fantasy and cater to fantasies the guys often don't know how to phrase, you got to read them really well. Sure you get tons of fly by night dommes, thinking that a leather skirt from the thrift store and a picture with a duck face will get them clients... How long do they usually last?

DomRidersSwitch -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/7/2012 9:38:11 PM)
I work as a prosubmissive have for about 6 months now. From day one of putting my profile up on the other side I got called a prositute. Which i find extremely funny. My site clearly stated that there was no sexual contact. I think for many it is just a moral stigma that they can not look past weather the pro is a prodom/me or a prosub.

Zensualista -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/8/2012 9:49:00 AM)
Does anyone really pay attention to those "pro domes are whores" whiney little boys?

TNDommeK -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/8/2012 12:11:56 PM)
Not at all, that is probably the rantings of someone who HAS paid a self proclaimed pro Domme and gotten ripped off. And now they associate all Pros with that one bad experience. Not saying I blame them, but everything is a gamble in some sort of fashion. And it sucks to keep having to search around, but there are such things as references.

Alecta -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/8/2012 2:16:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Privileged I’ll preface my questions by saying I am not a professional domme. However, the abuse and attitude I see pro dommes dealing with is troubling. It seems like men who would benefit the most from a pro session are the most vocal about being anti pro. I’m not talking about those seeking a mutually beneficial relationship. I’m talking about men who are solely seeking their own satisfaction. I see a lot of “do it because you love/enjoy/want it” statements. In the case of pain enthusiasts, would you really risk serious injury at the hands of an amateur to avoid paying a professional dominant? I would think a pro domme would know best how to provide after care. Is that not an important enough factor in fetish play? If your aversion to pro sessions goes deeper than “PRO DUMMES R WHORES”, I’d love to hear your thoughts. Circumventing all the point already made about false assumptions and the legitimacy of self-proclaimed pros... Actually you've answered the question yourself. Most of the complaints are from those who would benefit the most from Pro sessions but don't want to have to dig out their wallets. Most of the whiners are either too cheap to pay, or think it beneath them to have to pay since they're such a good catch and sooooo attractive to any woman we should be falling all over ourselves to satisfy their every fantasy and need. They are the same men who do not see a Domme as a woman, much less a person. The sad thing is, they don't even realise that they are only seeking their own satisfaction, because fulfilling their needs and fantasises should be the most thrilling and fulfilling thing for you as a Domme... why not? You get to whip a man and rush him under your feet zomg and make him cum! Wow! Unfortunately, now that you've eliminated those whose intentions and frustrations stem from wanting some kind of mutual relationship, there really isn't other ground to cover besides that lol

let34 -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/9/2012 3:44:02 AM)
quote: I’m not talking about those seeking a mutually beneficial relationship. I’m talking about men who are solely seeking their own satisfaction. As soon as money comes into it, it's a business/client relationship, and the customer gets what they want. Get over yourself.

Zensualista -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/9/2012 10:35:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alecta Most of the complaints are from those who would benefit the most from Pro sessions but don't want to have to dig out their wallets. Most of the whiners are either too cheap to pay, or think it beneath them to have to pay since they're such a good catch and sooooo attractive to any woman we should be falling all over ourselves to satisfy their every fantasy and need. They are the same men who do not see a Domme as a woman, much less a person. The sad thing is, they don't even realise that they are only seeking their own satisfaction, because fulfilling their needs and fantasises should be the most thrilling and fulfilling thing for you as a Domme... why not? You get to whip a man and rush him under your feet zomg and make him cum! Wow! I agree. I've worked as a pro domme on and off for eight or nine years. My clientele are busy professionals with families and lives that prevent them from spending time searching forums and boards for a domme who'll drop everything to okay with them one in a long while. They get an hour or two window and want a service and an escape. They pay upfront and thank me when they leave. I don't have sex with them. It's not all that different from going to see a movie. Why would someone who's into BDSM find so much fault with others doing what they do, not harming others and enjoying themselves? Isn't that what they seek for themselves? I think it's the ability to afford these brief sojourns that is really the reason for the anti pro anger and resentment. I don't pay attention to those people. I don't pay attention to the Rev. Phelps people either. Same difference.

LadyConstanze -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/9/2012 11:49:38 PM)
To be slightly side tracked, while pro domming part time was great fun for a while and a steep learning curve (the variety of things is amazing, and you get a good excuse to blow tons of money on equipment and fetish clothes) in the end it became a bit tiring and far too exhausting for me, it's all about the fantasy of the guys, yes you can incorporate their desires and all, but it's so different if you just play because both want it and not because it is a service. The difference between a musician who plays the music he or she likes just for the fun of it, and a musician who's paid to play the songs the audience wants to hear....

VanessaChaland -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/10/2012 4:18:30 AM)
Love this reply and sounds just like something I would say, and have said, about a gazillion times. :) quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam What makes you feel the "Pro" actually knows his or her ass from a hole in the ground? Anyone can hang out a shingle as a "Professional Dominant". If you don't believe me, just go the other side and do a search for profiles beginning with the word "Princess". There are no certification classes or state licenses. There is no guarantee that you won't end up bound and hemorrhaging or permanently damaged by someone that not only doesn't know what they are doing but doesnt give a shit how you feel as long as they have their $. If the pro has references, then you can probably trust them but most people don't vet the person who is going to wrap barbed wire around their cock and drip candle wax on it while they cram a Kong Ball up your ass nearly as thoroughly as they would vet a plumber.

LadyConstanze -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/10/2012 2:33:17 PM)
I think there's a bit of a difference between princesses and pro dommes, here's a hint, the princesses are usually online only and want to be "spoiled", most of them are very young girls who think it's going to work, lot's of them are possibly guys with pictures of hot girls on the profile, thinking this is going to work... Now you don't have to be a brain surgeon to figure out that if a domme has been around for a while, she might know her stuff, in fact there are sites who (gasp, the horror) discuss pro domme sessions and what the skills are - you ever wondered how guys find pro dommes? Ahhh light bulb moment, yes on those sites... Also if the client gets injured, most docs are required to inform the police, as you can't give consent to assault, so the chances of somebody having a business of cramming Kong Balls up people's anuses seems to be quite limited. Seems to me you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to pro dommes...

another1harder -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/12/2012 11:53:45 PM)
Neighbors, customer, friends. That is the order of my 20+ year old pro-domme relationship. Relocated and temporarily rented a house next to a pro-domme. What are the odds? At first thought it was an ASP or drugs. But the visitors appearance didn't apply. I knew something was going on but as a father I was on-guard, but did not see or sense cause for concern. Started thinking Amway or Avon. One day the neighbor came by asking for electrical help. My whole family went to the neighbors house to help, everything looked normal and I fixed one switch. My wife, a size 1, did not feel threatened by our neighbor, a size 12. A few weeks later, my wife answered the phone from our neighbor asking if I had bolt cutters. My wife said yes I do have cutters and my wife sent me over. My neighbor had a butt naked slave with a hand-cuff emergency, keys didn't work. He was late & pissed. When released, he was suddenly okay. 10 years later I was divorced and visited my old neighbor. Needless to say, better that my ex-wife. And still no sex. But we are still friends.

another1harder -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/13/2012 12:02:32 AM)
TNDommeK, You just keep getting hotter and hotter.

TNDommeK -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/13/2012 11:14:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze I think there's a bit of a difference between princesses and pro dommes, here's a hint, the princesses are usually online only and want to be "spoiled", most of them are very young girls who think it's going to work, lot's of them are possibly guys with pictures of hot girls on the profile, thinking this is going to work... Now you don't have to be a brain surgeon to figure out that if a domme has been around for a while, she might know her stuff, in fact there are sites who (gasp, the horror) discuss pro domme sessions and what the skills are - you ever wondered how guys find pro dommes? Ahhh light bulb moment, yes on those sites... Also if the client gets injured, most docs are required to inform the police, as you can't give consent to assault, so the chances of somebody having a business of cramming Kong Balls up people's anuses seems to be quite limited. Seems to me you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to pro dommes... ^^^^This. quote: TNDommeK, You just keep getting hotter and hotter Thank you!

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