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Fly Lady - 3/25/2012 11:19:06 PM   
bamabbwsub


Posts: 566
Joined: 5/28/2007
Status: offline 		I was reading a post in which several people mentioned the Fly Lady (www.flylady.com).

I had tried Fly Lady several years ago (even bought her book), and although she has some GREAT advice, I had a couple of issues with it/her:

1 - I found the tone of the web site to be somewhat cartoonish and perhaps falsely upbeat, if that makes sense.

Although I realize the merits of positive reinforcement, I guess I just didn't much care for the whole elementary school tone. It reminded me of a Weight Watchers meeting where if you lost 1/2 lb, you got a little gold star. Woo hoo! (<-- sarcasm) Some people really get into the cutesy stuff, but it actually has a tendency to turn me off.

2 - It seemed to me that her system is geared more towards people who don't work outside the home. Although everyone can find 15 minutes to shine a sink or pick up some items from a room, I never could quite figure out how 15 minutes was supposed to help me to really accomplish anything. What about the things that have to be done daily, like laundry, or cooking, etc.? Those take more than 15 minutes, and when I get home from work at 7 p.m. (or later), go grocery shopping, cook dinner (or go out), clean litterboxes, feed the dogs and cats, put a load of laundry in and/or take a load of clothes out of the dryer...it's time for me to go to bed. Sure, I could declutter for 15 minutes, but I couldn't figure out how I was supposed to clean such-and-such zone for "x" number of minutes every day in addition to all of the other crap I had to get done, without staying up until 1 a.m. every night.

I even e-mailed her to ask if she had a different system for people who worked outside the home, and her response was that her system works for everyone. I just couldn't quite figure that out. If I stayed home for 8 hours a day, I could set my timer for 15 minutes and do some cleaning and de-cluttering, but I'd also have plenty of time to do the other chores mentioned above that HAVE to be done on a daily basis.

I don't mean to disparage her system; heaven knows it's better than any system I've got! In fact, one of the BEST tips I got from her was to clean all of the trash out of the car while filling it up with gas. That has turned out to be a wonderful tip, and I do it every time I go to the gas station.

I'm just curious if anyone else had some of the same experiences? Did I miss something obvious? I just never really got the feeling that I was doing much more than keeping my head above water. For those of you who work full-time outside the home, do you/did you find that her system works/worked for you? If so, did you have to adjust her system somewhat to make it work, and how so?

With spring finally here, I'm ready to do some cleaning up and cleaning out!


_____________________________

"Everyone is normal until you get to know them." - Dave Sim

I rescue animals. My pockets and gas tank are always empty. My home is always hairy and my inbox full of sadness, but my heart is full when seeing those that are saved.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Fly Lady - 3/25/2012 11:34:26 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		If that one doesn't work there are tons of other sites that you may enjoy more. One of my favorites that I continue to go back to is My Simpler Life .

I like this one because it not only gives you ideas for decluttering physically but also mentally.

I never got into the whole flylady one because I just found it cartoonish and didn't feel she gave many mental views on clutter and disorganization. I think flylady is more geared towards those people who are hoarders and have difficulty with getting anything at all done and don't even know how to take a first step. I don't think it's really useful to those people who just need everyday helpful tips and daily reminders and pick-me-ups.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to bamabbwsub)
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RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 12:14:18 AM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline 		I used to do FlyLady. I loved it. I worked outside the house. And I wasn't a hoarder. :) I did have a little trouble because I had a new baby. That's when my housekeeping skills were tested in a way they were never tested before. I also love the idea of binders, lists, a regimen, etc. My then husband could always tell when I started her program again (as I would stop and start) by how the house looked. He'd walk in the door and say "Ooh, FlyLady again?"

It's been awhile, but if I remember correctly, the biggest helpers for me were recognizing and keeping clean the "hot spots," deep cleaning a room once a week (you know...cleaning the ceiling lights before the dust was visible), and of course, the almighty binder. Oh, and getting dressed down to shoes first thing. That is purely mental, but it works.

< Message edited by Kaliko -- 3/26/2012 12:15:26 AM >

(in reply to littlewonder)
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RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 4:48:26 AM   
ShaharThorne


Posts: 11071
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline 		Even though I don't "use" the system anymore, I still get the emails. Just reading them makes me feel good about keeping a clean home.

Right now my bedroom is my "hot spot" because of my yarns. After the 2nd, I am getting some storage bins and organizing them for the shed.

_____________________________

Goddess of Yarn

You are making two and a half feet of irresistible, tubular sex! -Lola, Kinky Boots

Founder: Bitch with Tits

Whip me, beat me, make me feel cheap and have great sex

(in reply to Kaliko)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 4:53:43 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		I used to be gone for 12 hours per day for work and had to take care of 5-6 cats and my D. I cleaned a little each morning and more at night - probably 15 and 30 minutes - and saved bigger projects, like laundry, for Saturday. We were at the beach all day on Sundays. R picked up odd groceries during the week and I did bigger food shopping on Saturday.

I did get behind on dusting, partially because I'm allergic to dust so if I procrastinate too long it makes me sick, and I managed this by either paying someone or exchanging yoga classes for cleaning services.

The place was cleaner using my system then when K, who worked part time, moved in with us and I abdicated cleaning responsibility and that was the deal when I agreed she could move in. Before she got a job she was fabulous at cleaning but once she started working she put off cleaning til Saturday, and that simply didn't work given the number of us in the place.

Not only am I a lot more efficient and have a lower tolerance for messes, but I was not willing to give R a massage until the place was clean and they had a higher tolerance for mess and prioritized massages.

This is partially why I moved out - it made me crazy to come home after a 10 or more hour day to their dinner mess not yet cleaned up and the bathroom dirty. She blamed his monopolizing of her time and he promised to re-prioritize but never did. Some weeks I worked more than the two of them combined so felt really resentful.

By this time we also had a dog, who I walked first thing in the AM and last thing at night. He was a husky, so "blew his coat" twice per year. Sadly, he died young of cancer. After he got his prognosis I resolved to leave after he died, and did, to R's surprise and dismay, despite me telling him multiple times that was my plan.

Probably, R's binge drinking was an equal factor to me moving out, but as I type this cannot remember which irritated me more.

_____________________________

Curious about the "Sluts Vote" avatars? See http://www.collarchat.com/m_4133036/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4133036

(in reply to bamabbwsub)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 5:45:49 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Binder? Cripes. I have my Flylady stuff secondhand, I just thought it was a time management thing. Since I have always cleaned out my car when I gas up, and try to do things as they come up, it made sense.

A mess can be an overwhelming thing and the 15 minutes thing I see as a way to gain momentum---after all, you don't have to STOP after fifteen minutes, right? Though if you have to, then you can feel not-guilty and that you've done something. I can get a tremendous amount done in fifteen minutes.

I'm glad we all hang together in my house! I am the clutter queen, but I have the most stuff and the least space. I also have a large parrot, so dust... well, we just won't go there. The Flylady would be defeated in the face of a grey parrot.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to kalikshama)
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RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 5:57:49 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		The flylady would also be defeated in the face of our 5 dogs. Back when I was a stay at home mom for a mercifully brief period about 25 years ago, I did the predecessor to flylady, the Sidetrached Home Executives. Sounds like the tips and the shtick remain the same.
I am probably going to adapt that system again though. My problem right now is that I am moving, and we both have lots of stuff, and there is so much unpacking to do. Plus, my love really needs to get rid of some stuff. I have taken boxes and boxes of stuff to Goodwill. He needs to do the same.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 6:21:20 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		The things that we accumulate... are just alarming. If the house was afire, I would grab Jed, my parents, and my purse (since my wallet is in it) and the rest is replaceable. I don't need most of the things I have. But they are "good" things, and I do need to wear different clothes every day. I am doing better now that the charities come to the door and pick things up, so all we have to do is take the bag out to the porch the night before.

Paper is the worst. In this "paperless" society, we are surrounded by more and more of the stuff! I send all these tax returns electronically, but I have to give everyone a copy, keep a copy of their signature on file, I copy all of THEIR crap for my convenience (dealing with IRS issues) and let me assure you that in the case of an audit the IRS is NOT keyed in to the electronic age...

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 6:45:24 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		My love is kind of like me, we collect the things we like. He has 24 fishing rods, I have 200 pairs of shoes. He has 100s of duck decoys, I have 3 sets of china and 20 tablecloths. I am putting a bunch of stuff in storage, but I am very emotionally attached to some of my possessions, and can't bear the thought of never seeing them again. So. Going to make for an interesting first year together.
I do want to clarify, I am not emotionally attached to everything. Some stuff I am keeping in case it doesn't work out and I need to set up a new household. Some I am keeping because I like it, and I hope to be able to use it if we buy a place together someday

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 6:47:52 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

My love is kind of like me, we collect the things we like. He has 24 fishing rods, I have 200 pairs of shoes. He has 100s of duck decoys, I have 3 sets of china and 20 tablecloths. I am putting a bunch of stuff in storage, but I am very emotionally attached to some of my possessions, and can't bear the thought of never seeing them again. So. Going to make for an interesting first year together.
I do want to clarify, I am not emotionally attached to everything. Some stuff I am keeping in case it doesn't work out and I need to set up a new household. Some I am keeping because I like it, and I hope to be able to use it if we buy a place together someday

Wow, someone with more fishing rods than I have. I better order up some blanks and start building them again.

I understand the "Stuff is replacable comment". After Hurricane Andrew, I left with the dog and my rifle and whatever I could put in the back of the truck.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 3/26/2012 6:49:17 AM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 7:04:51 AM   
fluffypet67


Posts: 4421
Joined: 3/8/2012
From: Moorestown, NJ
Status: offline 		i like FlyLady, but i don't follow it for everything.  Swish and swipe in the bathroom has really helped keep it sparkling.  15 minutes helps me on tasks i dislike.

_____________________________

fluffy
a BC survivor for 4 years.

On my own again.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 8:02:19 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		I would change "stuff is replaceable" to "most stuff is replaceable". Photos, gifts that had special meaning, those kinds of thing really aren't. A few years ago, there was a forest fire where I lived. I hitched up the trailer, loaded up the dogs and horses, grabbed my Xmas ornaments, kids pictures, and jewelry. That is when I knew what was really important. But, I am not that interested in being a minimalist, so I wouldn't strip down that much voluntarily. Still, this move has been good, since it has really caused me to reexamine all my possessions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

My love is kind of like me, we collect the things we like. He has 24 fishing rods, I have 200 pairs of shoes. He has 100s of duck decoys, I have 3 sets of china and 20 tablecloths. I am putting a bunch of stuff in storage, but I am very emotionally attached to some of my possessions, and can't bear the thought of never seeing them again. So. Going to make for an interesting first year together.
I do want to clarify, I am not emotionally attached to everything. Some stuff I am keeping in case it doesn't work out and I need to set up a new household. Some I am keeping because I like it, and I hope to be able to use it if we buy a place together someday

Wow, someone with more fishing rods than I have. I better order up some blanks and start building them again.

I understand the "Stuff is replacable comment". After Hurricane Andrew, I left with the dog and my rifle and whatever I could put in the back of the truck.


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 2:53:00 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		I finally managed to check out the flylady site.  A bunch of common sense.  There are more cleaning tips at Hints from Heloise.

I see so many people say how after working all day (anywhere from 8-12 hours), and doing the "daily" stuff that needs to get done, it is time for bed, forget about fitting in 15 minutes.  Sorry, but I call "bullshit" on this one.  We ALL have more than 15 minutes free each day most days.

Doing laundry everyday takes how long?  Honestly, it takes 5 minutes (or less) to throw the stuff in the washer, and then it does the work for at least 30 minutes (more likely 45), then 5 minutes to toss in the dryer and 30-60 minutes of the dryer doing the work..  So if you are "busy" doing non-stop laundry, you must be doing it all by hand and blowing on it to get it dry by yourself.  Personally, I don't have a washer/dryer in my new place, and go to the laundromat about every 2 weeks.  Still only doing maybe 3 loads (which would be six if done at home), and it takes about 2 1/2 hours including folding in the laundromat.

Got pets?  Even when I lived with my friend who had NINE dogs, feeding them (all on some freaky food diet that needed to be mixed and doled out) could be done in less than 15 minutes, including prep of the food.

Unless you have a dozen cats, cleaning a litter box daily shouldn't even take 5 minutes.  It means you scoop (or waste money with throw away) and it ain't getting that dirty in a day.  I have two cats, two boxes and scoop maybe twice a week.  Still takes less than 15 minutes.

The idea that flylady says dirty dishes should be put in a dishpan under the sink sounds like the musings of some anal retentive crazy woman.  Granted, I live alone so there is rarely more than a couple of dirty dishes, but still.  If I have anyone over, I wash the cooking stuff as I go along, and guests are using paper plates (usually).

I fully believe that living in clutter, "clutters" your mind and when things are neat and clean it creates a more peaceful environment.

I have used the "timer" method for getting some things done.  I have done this either because I had a limited amount of time or because I knew physically, I could only do that much.

I guess some people have an issue with a dish rack next to the sink.  I have literally less than 4 feet of total counter space, but that dish rack is taking up half of it, and I'm ok with that.

I can fully understand how when a situation gets out of control and there is an overabundance of clutter, it can be overwhelming and a person can need help, encouragement and support to get things de-cluttered.  I can NOT, however, understand how in the normal, everyday situations, grown people need a site like flylady to tell them how to handle keeping their space the way it should be on a day to day basis.

(in reply to bamabbwsub)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 4:52:40 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		Someone, a while back, suggested flylady to me. I went to the site, found it interesting but not really my thing.

I can't see keeping a house cleaning journal, when I have eyes that tell me what is dirty and needs cleaning. A journal/binder that I had to keep up with would make me nuts.

I think that maybe I would have found her tips and site useful 10 years ago when I was first a single mom, but now? Not so much.

When my house isn't as clean and organized as I'd ideally like it to be, it is because I chose to do something else, and made something else a priority. If things start to get messy, I shift my priorities. When I am not feeling well, I say to hell with it - and take care of myself. No excuses, no apologies.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 6:06:41 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Exactly.  A journal about what needs to be cleaned?  Really?  How many people are lacking in life skills to actually need that?

I can see someone putting on their calendar an "appointment" to clean all their screens for the spring or something, just to remind themselves of something that takes some time and they are choosing to set time aside to do it.

But the rest?  I don't wipe my sink dry after I use it (after all, a sink is designed to get wet, isn't it?).  I have, in the past used elbow grease to really clean a porceline sink, but I don't "shine" my sink.  I clean it.  That means I wipe out food residue, remove stains and clean any "icky" stuff out.  Cleaning isn't rocket science, it is something every adult person should know the basics of by using simple common sense. 

Like you, there are times when I let things go, giving priority to something else.  I have also completely ignored things to take care of my health.  A child of kindergarten age is able to grasp that concept, so to me, if an adult can't, they need psychological help and the question of whether they are competent to live independantly at all comes to mind.

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 6:10:27 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Exactly.  A journal about what needs to be cleaned?  Really?  How many people are lacking in life skills to actually need that?


More than one might imagine, I suspect.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 6:35:15 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		I'm liking flylady, but I don't see myself using all of her techniques. The emails are driving me up the wall. I usually check my email at work when I have some spare time to catch up on the news and whatnot. I can't spend several minutes a day reading all those testimonials and stuff from flylady. And I'm not buying her stuff. The cleaning things I've got will do the job they were meant to do--I just have to start using them on a regular basis

Dressing to shoes every morning is something my grandmother tried to teach me and it really does work. Keeping dirty dishes under the sink would only mean they out of sight and would take even longer to get them done. I actually like to wash dishes, I find it to be a relaxing activity most of the time. Drying them and putting them away is another matter. But my kitchen is starting to sparkle just from spending a few minutes a day for the past few days on it. And I even made my bed this morning--not something I normally do. I mean who has to make a bed, right? It took less than 2 minutes.

The bad thing, I know how to clean. I know the dishes should be done every day, floors swept. I even teach those kind of life skills at work. I just have a really hard time adapting that knowledge to my own life. Part of it is laziness, I admit. After working for 8 hours (and an odd 1-9 second shift) the last thing I want is to come home and clean after I've been teaching young men how to clean and often times doing more work than they had done. And then there is the bouts of depression, which makes housework extremely difficult at times. And when the depression lifts, I tend to get overwhelmed with the mess that I had allowed to accumulate.

But not being able to spend 15 minutes on a household task because you are doing laundry? Even I call bs on that one. Throw a load in the washing machine and then set a timer and do some task. Go through the mail, or clean out that junk drawer in the kitchen. Grab a broom and sweep the kitchen the floor or wash the dishes. That small task will be done long before the first load goes into the dryer.

I know that if I stick to doing a cleaning task for 15 minutes each day, keep the dishes washed, the sink shiny and put away my clothes after they come out of the dryer my house will be clean, organized and presentable in due time. It may not happen within a week; it may even take me a couple of months to get it they way I want it, but I won't be breaking my back or overly exerting myself either. One of the best things though, is that my son has seen how nice the kitchen is starting to look and actually cleaned up his mess after cooking today. He didn't put away the clean dishes, but usually he leaves the dishes in the sink, pots on the stove and spills on the stove top for me to clean up. All I have to tonight in there is my 15 minute cupboard washing because they aren't all done.
But the ones I did get done yesterday look amazing!


(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 6:35:54 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Exactly.  A journal about what needs to be cleaned?  Really?  How many people are lacking in life skills to actually need that?


More than one might imagine, I suspect.



Some people are just list makers and task organizers and journals and lists are tools they use. For me, lists and such are just one more thing to keep up with that takes me away from doing something else.

At one time, I did have a check off list I called, "Top to Bottom Cleaning" that I gave my kids to help them with chores. They started at the lights/ceiling fans and ended at the floors and baseboards.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 6:43:34 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		I hear ya on how things can be overwhelming when something rears its ugly head like depression or physical illness.

And I'm glad that the concept of spending just 15 minutes a day cleaning one thing is working for you.  As I said, I have been doing that for years, long before the flylady made it popular.

I think the daily email testemonials would make me want to throw my laptop across the room!

Keep up your momentum though and keep going!  While I think it is a little ridiculous that someone would need detailed instructions on how to maintain order in their daily life, I do believe that encouragement, support and compliments go a long way to helping those of us (I'm on the tail end of being too physically in pain and depressed to do it) keep going.

By the way, your kitchen looks mahvelous!  Especially those cabinets!

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 6:46:03 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Some people are just list makers and task organizers and journals and lists are tools they use. For me, lists and such are just one more thing to keep up with that takes me away from doing something else.

At one time, I did have a check off list I called, "Top to Bottom Cleaning" that I gave my kids to help them with chores. They started at the lights/ceiling fans and ended at the floors and baseboards.



I know a lot of people that make "to do" lists either daily or weekly.  That really isn't an issue.  However, if you need to keep a journal so you know when to clean something, when it was done last, when to do it again, what you did, etc. it is creepy from being "organized" to being obsessive compulsive.

Providing to a list to your kids is part of a parent teaching a child the best method for doing things until it is in their head and they know it (so they can teach their kids, and so on.).

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 20
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