My definition of "quiet" power

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Karmastic -> My definition of "quiet" power (4/7/2012 10:44:30 PM)
This is my definition of "quiet" power, using the horrible example of a dog. DISCLAIMERS: • Please forgive me for the bad comparison, because people are thinking, loving, and intelligent, caring human beings. Well, so are dogs, but you get the point, I hope. This is not meant to compare any human to a dog in any way, shape or form. • You don’t normally have to "break dogs". Please don’t turn this into a dog training discussion, or presume you know what I took on or what I should have done. • This is only my poor analogy regarding "quiet" power. It's not a manifesto, and this is the interwebs. I respect your right to your opinions, and gladly welcome and appreciate hearing your constructive thoughts. With that said... The card on the dog pound said "returned, human aggressive", which was a sure death sentence for this dog. But when I looked at this 50 lbs 2yo that was still growing, all I saw was a stunning beautiful dog that was very excited to see me, and wanted me to touch and pet her. I took her for a walk inside the pound, and she was both excited and boundless, but seemed to feel and respond to my control immediately. I took her home, and she seemed to get along with my other dog, a male. We used to take walks in the trails next to my house, and other neighborhood dogs would join in. It turned out that she is a lonely spirit, and was always circling the pack, but never joining it. She also tested me by sometimes refusing to come when I called her. She also bit me a couple times when I was correcting or punishing her, and I bit right back, but harder. I ultimately had to "break her" like a wild horse, and I know I made some mistakes doing it (don’t we all?). Cut to 7 years and 35 lbs later (she's a BIG 85 lbs dog), and she's the best companion and a willing member of "the pack" (only two strong at this point, me and her). I think karma put her tough pitt/lab soul in my path, and it took a strong person like me to save her from death, and give her a good loving home with a wonderful yard and all her spaces. I don’t have to "use" my power on her. And in fact, if I do use it, I've lost. Karma always punishes me more than I ever punish her, either by snubbing a finger, or whatever. And she cowers at the mere sight of my disapproval, so, as a sub recently told me, it's kind of a self preservation thing to avoid getting in that space too much. I haven't used physical corrections for many years, and just put her in her room and take away her bed (which is the veranda, a gilded cage I'd say).

JeffBC -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/8/2012 9:27:55 AM)
I'd like to make a suggestion... and please take this in the spirit in which it is intended (and no, I'm not a moderator or the board police.. I'm just trying to help which may or may not be helpful). In general, the boards are used to ask questions rather than state viewpoints and definitions. This is the sort of thing which is appropriate for a journal or blog entry, but less so here. It's not that you've said anything wrong or objectionable really. It's that people come here all the time and try to tell us what this is or what that is. As you might imagine, especially for those of us who are doing pretty well with our own definitions, it can get tiring. So I'd like to ask you a real question. Why did you post this? Really? The only possible reason I can think of is that you wanted to educate me about your viewpoints. But why do you think I would want such an education? If I were wanting to go down this path, I might have made a post more like: In your relationship, is the concept of "power" relevant? If so, what sort of "power" is wielded. Can you describe it? That way, you are clearly interrogating the readers about their experience. If the thread catches on, there'll be opportunity for you to add in your own experience. In fact, it might be interesting to see how your experience changed by the time you tossed it into the ring. That would be much more likely to get a discussion about "power" going on here. Now, all that being said, my stupid "oh man I was wrong" thread actually got a bit of traction. I expected one or two friends to laugh and then the mods move it off to the recycle bin somewhere.

Zensualista -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/8/2012 9:44:32 AM)
Quiet power? A Mercedes E63 AMG station wagon.

Karmastic -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/8/2012 11:24:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC I'd like to make a suggestion... and please take this in the spirit in which it is intended (and no, I'm not a moderator or the board police.. I'm just trying to help which may or may not be helpful). In general, the boards are used to ask questions rather than state viewpoints and definitions. This is the sort of thing which is appropriate for a journal or blog entry, but less so here. It's not that you've said anything wrong or objectionable really. It's that people come here all the time and try to tell us what this is or what that is. As you might imagine, especially for those of us who are doing pretty well with our own definitions, it can get tiring. So I'd like to ask you a real question. Why did you post this? Really? The only possible reason I can think of is that you wanted to educate me about your viewpoints. But why do you think I would want such an education? If I were wanting to go down this path, I might have made a post more like: In your relationship, is the concept of "power" relevant? If so, what sort of "power" is wielded. Can you describe it? That way, you are clearly interrogating the readers about their experience. If the thread catches on, there'll be opportunity for you to add in your own experience. In fact, it might be interesting to see how your experience changed by the time you tossed it into the ring. That would be much more likely to get a discussion about "power" going on here. Now, all that being said, my stupid "oh man I was wrong" thread actually got a bit of traction. I expected one or two friends to laugh and then the mods move it off to the recycle bin somewhere. I posted it because I've seen it referred to, in other words, in many threads and a lot of profile. I thought it might spur some discussion on it. But you're right, I'm sure I could have taken a different approach, many different or better approaches. Oh well. Thanks for the ideas.

OsideGirl -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/8/2012 3:01:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karmastic I posted it because I've seen it referred to, in other words, in many threads and a lot of profile. I thought it might spur some discussion on it. But you're right, I'm sure I could have taken a different approach, many different or better approaches. Oh well. Thanks for the ideas. While I agree with Jeff, I will add that it was well written and it wasn't done with arrogance. I'll also add: Thank you for adopting a dog!

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/8/2012 3:24:03 PM)
I just love quiet power as it relates to a dominant. My dom is quiet. He's laid back. He does not present as a macho person in any way, b/c he is not. It's over time that you see, wow! This guy is consistently the smartest person in the room. He's also the most emotionally stable person I have ever encountered. Oh yeah, a quiet, unassuming dom captured my heart some years ago and what can I say? For us it works magic.

Mr4sg -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/8/2012 3:36:45 PM)
Since a discussion was intended by OP: Why is quiet power often mistaken for weakness, or lack of power?

OsideGirl -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/8/2012 3:55:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mr4sg Since a discussion was intended by OP: Why is quiet power often mistaken for weakness, or lack of power? Hell, politeness and manners often get mistaken for weakness. Some people think you have to be a domineering, arrogant ass to have power. The reality is that it just means you're an ass.

sunshinemiss -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/8/2012 3:59:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mr4sg Since a discussion was intended by OP: Why is quiet power often mistaken for weakness, or lack of power? Because it is isn't shiny and obvious. People are lazy and want the obvious answer - they don't want to work for it. In order to see the quiet power, one must look. That requires work on the other person's part.

JeffBC -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/8/2012 4:33:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mr4sg Why is quiet power often mistaken for weakness, or lack of power? My opinion? Assuming I actually know what the OP is talking about, then my answer is "it isn't... ever". In fact, if I understand the concept correctly, I'd say that if it was "mistaken" then it never existed to start with *in an actual, face to face, interpersonal exchange*.

RedMagic1 -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/8/2012 4:44:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mr4sg Why is quiet power often mistaken for weakness, or lack of power? 1. It happens on purpose. There is tremendous power in being underestimated. ...or also... 2. It wasn't a mistake. The quiet guy isn't as powerful as he would like to think he is.

OsideGirl -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/8/2012 4:48:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC In fact, if I understand the concept correctly, I'd say that if it was "mistaken" then it never existed to start with *in an actual, face to face, interpersonal exchange*. That's a good point Jeff. Master has never had someone who met him face to face not get that he's an alpha. But, there's been a lot of women online that seem to think that because he says "please" and "thank you", miss that power.

Endivius -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/8/2012 6:01:44 PM)
I am quite reserved myself. Some people mistake it for being shy. The last munch I went to, one of the girls there said I was a prude. ME?! It is this kind of judmental idiocy that explains why she is single, having never had a conversation with me, or seen me at a play party, she decided I must be prude since I wasn't rubbing all over her. [sm=AttentionWhore.gif] I am never the loudest person in the room, I don't think yelling or being loud is necessary to get someone's attention; I have quite a pair of lungs on me if I need to yell fire or incoming though.[sm=danger.gif] I find that if you are more reserved and laid back, and speak when you have something to say, instead of rushing to get a word in every chance you get, people tend to pay more attention to what you have to say. As for the relationship stuff, meh. I never yell at any of my bottoms, if i get frustrated or annoyed, I tend to talk....very slowly .....and......dileberate.....to make.....a point. It works for me.

kalikshama -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/9/2012 5:16:01 AM)
I was impressed with the way my ex transformed a 75# abused, unsocialized Husky with separation anxiety into a model doggie citizen. Sadly, he died young of cancer. Interestingly, R was not willing to put anything close to the same level of attention into his relationships with humans. K used to joke that she needed a fur suit. [image]local://upfiles/1052865/59D65C3EA81641A4A3B69FF57ED31CC7.jpg[/image]

Karmastic -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/9/2012 11:34:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: Mr4sg Why is quiet power often mistaken for weakness, or lack of power? 1. It happens on purpose. There is tremendous power in being underestimated. ...or also... 2. It wasn't a mistake. The quiet guy isn't as powerful as he would like to think he is. Well put, totally agree! I subscribe to #1 - never show them your cards, and allow them to underestimate you. But yeah, who hasn't experienced #2. I think society defaults to loud power because it's human nature, and we're physical animals. Society therefore sees a lack of bluster and bravado as weakness. It takes a lot of experience working your way up the evolutionary chain of power to reach quiet power. And it takes a LOT of self confidence to hold back sometimes and not get sucked into competitions for, or shows of power. Sort of like coming into yourself, finding yourself and your space. It's obviously different for every1, and saying it is a lot different than trying to live it. Thanks everyone for discussing - this is what I was after. Next time, I will present it in a form more suited for discussion or answers.

urtoy -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/9/2012 11:41:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: Mr4sg Since a discussion was intended by OP: Why is quiet power often mistaken for weakness, or lack of power? Hell, politeness and manners often get mistaken for weakness. Some people think you have to be a domineering, arrogant ass to have power. The reality is that it just means you're an ass. quote: quote: It seems that common courtesy has become so rare that boorish behavior has become accepted as he norm. Very sad.

crazyml -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/9/2012 11:58:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karmastic She also bit me a couple times when I was correcting or punishing her, and I bit right back, but harder. I ultimately had to "break her" like a wild horse, and I know I made some mistakes doing it (don’t we all?). ...... I haven't used physical corrections for many years, and just put her in her room and take away her bed (which is the veranda, a gilded cage I'd say). How is this an example of quiet power? Dude... you bit the dog.

Alecta -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/9/2012 12:15:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mr4sg Why is quiet power often mistaken for weakness, or lack of power? It actually depends on your definition of "quiet power". Is it quiet in that the Dom/me barely has to say anything to exert their authority? Or quiet in that the Dom/me does not put their authority on display? In truth, both these show a stronger character, in my opinion, then the guy who runs around the clubs and munches demanding to see how "powerful" each Dom/me is. The latter is generally a sign of insecurity. In fact, "mistaken" may be less suitable a word than "goad". Those who consider a quiet presentation to be a sign of weakness are usually those who are dissatisfied that you would not compete with them, the same type who call you a fake for not wanting to play with them, and frankly, do not actually grasp the idea of a Dom/me's power. The do-me sub who heckles at you because you've politely declined to fulfil his fantasies instead of beating him up in accordance to his script. The wanna-be Dom/me who needs to challenge all the strangers around them to establish their place and importance as the "alpha". Room exists, also, for subs who prefer their Dom/mes to be more verbal or violent in their interactions, but I've rarely come across a legitimate sub who considers the incompatibility of styles a weakness or ruse, and it really is a matter of personal style, at that point. Some people are loud and out-going, some people are private and quiet. Of course, this excludes those who, as it turns out, don't say anything because they've got nothing to give, but then it's just "quiet", not "quiet power".

Karmastic -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/9/2012 12:33:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml quote: ORIGINAL: Karmastic She also bit me a couple times when I was correcting or punishing her, and I bit right back, but harder. I ultimately had to "break her" like a wild horse, and I know I made some mistakes doing it (don’t we all?). ...... I haven't used physical corrections for many years, and just put her in her room and take away her bed (which is the veranda, a gilded cage I'd say). How is this an example of quiet power? Dude... you bit the dog. You cannot automatically and magically obtain quiet power. You do have to start somewhere, and earn/take it! I had to assert my control over her like a wild horse on many levels. Getting her to come to me is a lot different than getting her to eat huge horrible tasting glucosamine (sp) pills out of my hand. Once you've established that, just a look can be enough to assert control in a situation. I didn't literally bite the dog [:)] I took her neck skin in one hand and her jaw (with my hand in it) in the other, and held her down to the ground to dominate her. I trained her away from her impulse to bite me by putting my hand in her mouth, and challenging her to bite me several times. She never dared bite me in that position, and it was easy for her to translate that to any situation. Again, very politically incorrect to compare humans to dogs (as well as physical correction of dogs). But when we were taking walks, or in the dog park, and another dog approached to join us, there was never any doubt in that dog's mind who the alpha was - THAT is "quiet power". Hope that makes more sense to you. PS - please don't think I'm arrogant and I'm saying I'm all this or that. I'm not "Mr. Powerful" here dispensing my power and wisdom. Far far from it! And the humble side of me always keeps sight of the fact that no matter how good one is at something (sans gold medalists), there's always someone else better. Also, with all of the above, the paradigm is the same with human and dogs. My girl ain't going to do ANYTHING she doesn't really want to do. She has to want to do it, because she wants to please her master, who returns the favor by pleasing her, and providing for her needs.

Karmastic -> RE: My definition of "quiet" power (4/9/2012 12:44:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alecta quote: ORIGINAL: Mr4sg Why is quiet power often mistaken for weakness, or lack of power? It actually depends on your definition of "quiet power". Is it quiet in that the Dom/me barely has to say anything to exert their authority? Or quiet in that the Dom/me does not put their authority on display? In truth, both these show a stronger character, in my opinion, then the guy who runs around the clubs and munches demanding to see how "powerful" each Dom/me is. The latter is generally a sign of insecurity. In fact, "mistaken" may be less suitable a word than "goad". Those who consider a quiet presentation to be a sign of weakness are usually those who are dissatisfied that you would not compete with them, the same type who call you a fake for not wanting to play with them, and frankly, do not actually grasp the idea of a Dom/me's power. The do-me sub who heckles at you because you've politely declined to fulfil his fantasies instead of beating him up in accordance to his script. The wanna-be Dom/me who needs to challenge all the strangers around them to establish their place and importance as the "alpha". Room exists, also, for subs who prefer their Dom/mes to be more verbal or violent in their interactions, but I've rarely come across a legitimate sub who considers the incompatibility of styles a weakness or ruse, and it really is a matter of personal style, at that point. Some people are loud and out-going, some people are private and quiet. Of course, this excludes those who, as it turns out, don't say anything because they've got nothing to give, but then it's just "quiet", not "quiet power". Bravo, well said! The dom running around trying to exert power screams insecurity. All beings in the room know it on some level, and I suspect, wouldn't mind seeing the young gladiator get swatted down in "battle". And dare me, the newb suggest this, but I think any sub who heckles you has lost sight of what being a sub is all about. If the entire point is to please the dom/master, and the dom doesn't want what the sub is offering, then I think a good sub will back off.

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