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OsideGirl -> RE: Completely off topic (4/19/2012 1:31:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I have no problem with someone not liking something. I do have a problem with them trying to claim they are superior in some way because of it. I know a lot of people who own guns. Most of them have them for target shooting and a few actually go hunting with them. To imply that everyone who has a gun is living their lives in constant fear is just bullshit.


Exactly. It's like people that don't like same sex marriage.....so instead of not having a same sex marriage, they don't want anyone else to have one. It's like vegans being pissed off about people on low carb diets.

I actually enjoy target shooting and we go to the range about once a month. I grew up in a rural area where learning to shoot was the normal thing. I have a healthy respect for the firepower and realize that they are only a tool.

The bottom line, if you don't like guns, you don't have to get one.....but that doesn't mean that you get force your decision onto my life.

As for the self defense, the only concern I have is the current home invasions in our area. We don't have children, so during the day the gun will be loaded and unlocked...easily accessible.




hardcybermaster -> RE: Completely off topic (4/19/2012 3:06:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Congratulation Oside. Now lets hope you never have to use it. [:)]


quote:

Ignore hardcybermaster. From his profile : "just here to annoy cliques and question cliches,feel free to ignore me".


Is that his deal? Here I was thinking he just didn't have a clue what a test was or what a high score meant. Now I know he's just trolling.


No, he hates all guns. Which he is entitled to do, certainly.




I have no problem with someone not liking something. I do have a problem with them trying to claim they are superior in some way because of it. I know a lot of people who own guns. Most of them have them for target shooting and a few actually go hunting with them. To imply that everyone who has a gun is living their lives in constant fear is just bullshit.

I never claimed to be superior and I never claimed that everyone who has a gun is living their lives in constant fear. Don't put words in m mouth.
I did say this.....which is questioning cliches.......the clique that annoyed me quite a few years ago has gone btw

To me a lot of people who carry are the victims, not me. They are the victims of the propaganda and fear mongering that comes from the pro gun lobby.
The victim mentality,home invasion, the when seconds count cliches.Excluding the threat from bears etc,living in fear for your life is the only reason to own a gun. If I lived in a place where there was a genuine threat to my life I'd fucking move because I do not want to be put in a position where I have to kill another human being to stop myself being killed.
I will also never countenance the shooting of another human being for stealing a laptop or a phone





hardcybermaster -> RE: Completely off topic (4/19/2012 3:14:46 PM)



quote:

so during the day the gun will be loaded and unlocked...easily accessible.

easily accessible for all
hope you don't go for a shower one day and come out to find some bloke pointing your own gun at you




Aswad -> RE: Completely off topic (4/20/2012 12:27:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Is it so very safe everywhere else that no one feels that they need to be their own first line of defense?


Yes. Come visit some day.

Home invasion is an event that hits the national news headlines here.

I've been berated for teaching self defense classes because "it's so safe here already that it's irresponsible to teach people to do anything other than hide and wait for the police if they're unlucky enough to ever encounter a violent person."

Health,
al-Aswad.





LadyHibiscus -> RE: Completely off topic (4/20/2012 6:06:49 AM)

Irony, Aswad. That's what that is! And proof that we cannot protect ourselves against the genuine nightmares.




LaTigresse -> RE: Completely off topic (4/20/2012 7:37:44 AM)

Indeed.

I've seriously nothing against guns. A hunk of metal/wood/plastic. I've nothing against most people owning many types of guns. But I do find it ironic that the very person/people that the guns are usually obtained to protect are statistically the ones in the most danger from those same guns.

As far out there as most of the possible 'Ooops' are, I personally, do not want the responsibility for those 'Ooops'. I can only control so much. For ME, the odd chance of an 'Oops' that slide past my control.......the potential fall out from that 'Oops' is far scarier than the odd chance of me being in a situation where that gun might be useful.

I've lived in a house full of guns. There is a mindset that tends to be bred by that sort of gun culture. It nearly always, in my personal experience, runs parallel with a paranoia that I find toxic and won't allow into my life. For ME, I would rather deal with the fear that would cause me to believe I need a gun and rise above it.

Plus, I've done enough reading, seen enough interviews, and sadly known enough criminals that, unless the person doing the B&E is an aquaintance (and I do NOT hang with that sort of person so it is a moot point) I've already got 3 of the best deterents. And no one I love is in any danger from them, at all, ever.

Anyone that chooses to own guns and keep them in their home easily accessible, I will have zero sympathy for any possible 'Oops'. They make that choice, they accept the possible Oopss. Regardless of how far fetched they are.

No different than the risk I take when I get on a horse. If I end up like old Superman, no sympathy for moi.




OsideGirl -> RE: Completely off topic (4/20/2012 7:45:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster


quote:

so during the day the gun will be loaded and unlocked...easily accessible.

easily accessible for all
hope you don't go for a shower one day and come out to find some bloke pointing your own gun at you


1) Do you generally take a shower in the middle of your work day? Because I don't. I shower in the morning before work, not during working hours. The burglaries in our area have been taking place on week days, during working hours....which is the reason why I chose a weapon for home defense and the only time the weapon will be left out in the open.

2) For someone to get into the house and into the Master Bathroom to point the gun at me, they'd have to go to the back of the house, climb the fence and make it to the front of the house....without either dog noticing.

3) As for "hope you don't go for a shower one day and come out to find some bloke pointing your own gun at you". Judging from the tone of your posts, you'd love it if something like that happened. Unlike you, I'm hoping the only use that gun will ever get is at the shooting range. You're hoping something goes horribly wrong so you can feel vindicated.

4) You don't know our area, our culture, or the layout of our home....but you keep throwing out random scenarios to try to further your own agenda. It's beyond your reasoning that someone has actually thought out the responsibility and scenarios of gun ownership.

5) I started this thread because I studied for a test and passed with 100%. You decided to piss on that accomplishment because you didn't like what the test was about. You decided to take that accomplishment as an opportunity to beat everyone up verbally to make sure that everyone knows that you think everyone that owns a gun is stupid and irresponsible.

6) If you don't like guns.....don't get one.




hardcybermaster -> RE: Completely off topic (4/20/2012 4:15:52 PM)

please don't imply that I want you to get shot, that's low. the whole point of my posting against guns is that I don't want anyone to get hurt or killed by them




punisher440 -> RE: Completely off topic (4/20/2012 6:30:52 PM)

For me,it's real simple...if you don't want to get shot,don't break into my house.If you want money or stuff,get a job and buy it yourself.




Aswad -> RE: Completely off topic (4/20/2012 9:45:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Irony, Aswad. That's what that is! And proof that we cannot protect ourselves against the genuine nightmares.


I may have given the wrong impression of what I try to teach.

In terms of the mental, my most important lesson to teach is that fear should be a transient thing. You should never live with fear as an ongoing factor in your life, because it's toxic to your health (as LaTigresse rightly points out). A lot of women in major cities here live in fear because of the miniscule risk of rape, a fear that is fuelled by the media. I try to teach them how to fear only in a situation where the risk is immediate, and how to let go of that fear when the situation is past.

Transient fear is a natural thing. If a stranger is positioning himself, you should experience some level of fight or flight. Your awareness leads to detecting the situation, and your body responds by making sure you are prepared to take a hand in how that situation unfolds. Then you do the bare minimum required to avoid the problem, the adrenaline subsides and you go back to your baseline. This, I have found, helps to avoid things like pathological anxieties, because it fosters an innate and natural relationship to a facility we have to help us. Gives it a useful purpose so it doesn't recalibrate itself to the point where it triggers more or less randomly.

So I spend most of the time on physically healthy exercises, healthy attitudes, good habits and a few exercises that make a disporportionate difference in the outcome of an undesireable situation. I don't expect the people that choose to learn something from me to end up facing a lot of trouble here in this exceptionally quiet country. And so I don't teach most of them more than what could be considered reasonable. Perspective is important to me.

An example of one of the few exercises I do teach, is the simplest escape available: pulling away from a grab using the anatomical weakness of the thumb. That's gotten my Ars out of a situation where a man probably intended to sexually assault her. Doesn't take more than a few minutes to learn, and it tends to stick pretty well. Most guys aren't expecting resistance, and are expecting to be in control, so it's disporportionally useful in breaking their train of thought and taking the control/power element out of something that is arguably tied to that element for most of them.

While I know perfectly well how to inflict inordinate amounts of pain, harm or injury, those skills simply aren't relevant to the average person. I'm just interested in making sure they have an idea of what it feels like to operate under an adrenaline rush (useful in case of an accident or fire, too), that they know how to discourage and run, and that they know that the likelihood they will ever need to make use of these things is very small. Of course, it doesn't hurt to have an idea of "I can handle more than I thought I could", either, so long as that idea doesn't extend to the point of an unrealistic perception.

I don't subscribe to the notion that the average person around here should attempt to stand their ground on principle or whatever. I prefer for the majority to only resort to violence if they haven't been able to avoid someone putting them in a situation where the alternative is intolerable (e.g. date rape is one of the classic examples). Most of the time it's a better choice for the average person to simply run.

Of course, for those that have a stalker or the like, I take a different approach.

Fortunately, though, those are pretty rare around these parts.

Health,
al-Aswad.




LadyConstanze -> RE: Completely off topic (4/20/2012 10:02:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl



6) If you don't like guns.....don't get one.


I don't like guns and I would never get one, however that is possibly not going to stop a guy like Zimmerman from getting one. Me not liking guns has more to do with idiots having guns and possibly a psychotic episode, think me not liking guns and not owning one will stop them from shooting me? Of course they might go to prison, but yeah, that's going to give me my life back?




Aswad -> RE: Completely off topic (4/21/2012 2:00:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


It seems as useful to fear what idiots may do, as to fear what lacking a gun might do. In both cases the answer is "probably a lot less than the car most people get into at least twice a day", as far as I can tell. To say nothing of what an idiot may do behind the wheel of a car. Perhaps we need a car ban, or at least stringent car controls, on par with gun control. Or not. I'm easily the first to admit idiots are a fact of life, but it's not a fact I want to give up my liberty to work around. Thing is, if we restrict everyone on the basis of what an idiot might do, we're all less for it.

Now, granted, there are some that would consider me an idiot, and they might be right for all I know (idiots rarely realize they are idiots, so if I'm one, then I'm not likely to be aware of it). But if I'm reasonable, as I would like to think I am, then it should be my right not to be punished for the uncommitted crimes of idiots. And unless someone has a way to tell the idiots from those that are not, everyone will endure a collective punishment (of privation) which many might not mind, but which some most certainly do (target shooting with my old man as a kid is a happy memory).

If I can't be trusted with a gun, I certainly shouldn't be trusted with a car.

Which is why this thread is nice on an important point: the OP is mentioning that she did good on a test. And tests are one of the means by which we can discriminate usefully between those that can responsibly handle a firearm and those that cannot. I'm not opposed to the idea that a ranged weapon can be subject to competency requirements, and in fact would probably be an avid supporter of such a law here, if its corollory were that the competent be able to obtain the full range of non-military firearms with a minimum of hassle.

If idiots are going to rule our lives, we might as well all don straightjackets and settle in for a life in a padded cell where we cannot fuck up and learn and evolve, as individuals, societies and up to the species level. Because I can assure you that nature will come up with a better idiot if you make allowances for the idiots that are already around.

Health,
al-Aswad.





kitkat105 -> RE: Completely off topic (4/21/2012 3:07:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

please don't imply that I want you to get shot, that's low. the whole point of my posting against guns is that I don't want anyone to get hurt or killed by them


And the reason why OsideGirl made the original post was because she was proud of something and wanted to share it. You can snark all you want about not liking guns, but YOU'RE the one who went off topic by going down the "guns are bad" route. If anyone owns a gun, it SHOULD be someone trained, licensed and has a gun & personal safety regime like OsideGirl.

Seriously, just get over it.




hardcybermaster -> RE: Completely off topic (4/21/2012 3:13:56 AM)

the OP was about oside passing a test, which if you are going to have a gun I guess is a good thing and it has been hijacked( mainly by me, sorry) but the car analogy just doesn't work. It is like comparing a 747 with a cruise missile. One is designed to transport people and things around, the other is designed to blow stuff up and kill people.
I don't know what the driving test is like in the US but it's fairly stringent over here. Not everyone who passes is a great driver but they have been taught quite a bit about driving. It is my understanding that in a lot if not all states you can buy a range of different guns with absolutely no testing whatsoever.
A car is not meant to kill but clearly can if used recklessly or stupidly so we need to prove we are competent with one before we get to use one. Guns are meant to kill yet we need no testing at all before we can buy one, can that be right?
As LC said and you said, there are lots of idiots out there, and they have guns, bad choice. Obviously the pro gun answer is for everyone to have a gun, ,more and more guns, where does it end? With more dead bodies

( in reply to aswad )




outhere69 -> RE: Completely off topic (4/21/2012 6:00:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Exidor
Buy all the ammo you can afford NOW. Prices have already started climbing due to the coming election, and if it's like last time, it'll be at least a year before they start coming down again. (yes, buying more than you need now helps aggravate the situation, but when you're caught in the stampede anyway, it's not like you have a lot of options)

That situation seems crazier than shit. Last time there was fear of riots. Even after guns in national parks were approved (by Obama), there's still this silliness that he'll confiscate your guns.




tj444 -> RE: Completely off topic (4/21/2012 6:26:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
A lot of women in major cities here live in fear because of the miniscule risk of rape, a fear that is fuelled by the media.

well,.. being a female,.. I dont think the risk of rape is miniscule,.. i think the risk can be quite high, depending on the female and what kind of friends, relatives, neighbors, and people they hang with are like.. most women are raped by someone they know.. stranger rapes are a miniscule risk tho, those are the ones usually fuelled by media.. when in reality, if there is a risk to a female, its much more likely to come from someone she has some level of trust in (due to knowing them to whatever degree and feeling they are ok).. just sayin'...

and from my experience, it doesnt matter if its a major city or a small town.. jmo

I do agree that if you resist, fight back, you are more likely to get away.. that has happened to me before, and its just my immediate and overwhelming instinct to fight, with determination and everything in me..




OsideGirl -> RE: Completely off topic (4/21/2012 9:57:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl



6) If you don't like guns.....don't get one.


I don't like guns and I would never get one, however that is possibly not going to stop a guy like Zimmerman from getting one. Me not liking guns has more to do with idiots having guns and possibly a psychotic episode, think me not liking guns and not owning one will stop them from shooting me? Of course they might go to prison, but yeah, that's going to give me my life back?


Guns laws don't stop criminals from owning guns. It just means that only the criminals have the guns. Mexico is a prime example of that not working.

In the Zimmerman instance, you're blaming the gun...not the person. Zimmerman still would have done what he did regardless of what weapon he was carrying. He could have been carrying a nightstick and it still would have ended the way it did.

For the record, I'm neither an idiot or psychotic.






LadyConstanze -> RE: Completely off topic (4/21/2012 11:56:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl



6) If you don't like guns.....don't get one.


I don't like guns and I would never get one, however that is possibly not going to stop a guy like Zimmerman from getting one. Me not liking guns has more to do with idiots having guns and possibly a psychotic episode, think me not liking guns and not owning one will stop them from shooting me? Of course they might go to prison, but yeah, that's going to give me my life back?


Guns laws don't stop criminals from owning guns. It just means that only the criminals have the guns. Mexico is a prime example of that not working.

In the Zimmerman instance, you're blaming the gun...not the person. Zimmerman still would have done what he did regardless of what weapon he was carrying. He could have been carrying a nightstick and it still would have ended the way it did.

For the record, I'm neither an idiot or psychotic.





I didn't call you an idiot or psychotic, but I am worried about a person who is owning a gun, freaking out...

Mexico is your example, my example would be most European countries where it's extremely rare and quite difficult to get a gun - here in LA I'm quite worried about somebody with road rage pulling a gun, it's a fear I never have experienced in Europe AT ALL.

As for Zimmerman, you mean it's even a viable idea that without a gun he would have shot the guy? Are you serious? Without a gun, maybe a sling shot or a knife, he would have sat somewhere and possibly ranted. Pulling a trigger happens fairly fast, a lot faster than stabbing somebody, and it's a good weapon for cowards - you don't have to get near anybody.

There are quite a few things I like about the US, but the lax gun laws (for us Europeans) are something that concerns me enough to not want to relocate permanently. I a super happy to be in an environment where I simply do not need a gun to protect myself. All the sunshine in the world and a great job isn't worth much after you caught a bullet.




OsideGirl -> RE: Completely off topic (4/21/2012 12:07:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze



I didn't call you an idiot or psychotic, but I am worried about a person who is owning a gun, freaking out...
I didn't think you were. But, you can't limit things to "normal" citizens based on what an idiot or psychotic would do. No one would be able to own a car, if that were the case. Because idiots street race or drive their cars through farmer's markets. No one would be able to get prescription pain killers because idiots use them and sell them for recreation. No one would be able to own a kitchen knife because people who have a mental break stab people.


quote:

here in LA I'm quite worried about somebody with road rage pulling a gun, it's a fear I never have experienced in Europe AT ALL.
If someone has a loaded gun in a car in LA, 99 times out of 100 they'd be carrying illegally. That person would have to be permitted as CCW, which almost never happens in the State of California. (In all of LA county, there are only about 1400 CCWs that have been issued) So, again, you're basing what law abiding citizens should be able to own based on what someone who is acting in a criminal manner is doing.


quote:

As for Zimmerman, you mean it's even a viable idea that without a gun he would have shot the guy? Are you serious? Without a gun, maybe a sling shot or a knife, he would have sat somewhere and possibly ranted. Pulling a trigger happens fairly fast, a lot faster than stabbing somebody, and it's a good weapon for cowards - you don't have to get near anybody.


I do actually think if he had a different weapon, it most likely would have ended up the same. I think GZ has some personality traits that point in that direction.


And again, I started this thread because I studied for a test and passed with 100%.




tj444 -> RE: Completely off topic (4/21/2012 12:37:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
I didn't think you were. But, you can't limit things to "normal" citizens based on what an idiot or psychotic would do. No one would be able to own a car, if that were the case. Because idiots street race or drive their cars through farmer's markets. No one would be able to get prescription pain killers because idiots use them and sell them for recreation. No one would be able to own a kitchen knife because people who have a mental break stab people.


Using drugs isnt that great an example, my allergy meds in Canada are on the shelf, here i have to see a pharmacist, show id, and even at that the most they will give me is 2 boxes.. (yes, I know it can be used to make meth but the drug dealers still somehow find a way to make it, dont they?).. there was talk about restricting herbs, supplements, etc also (not sure where or how far that has gone).. there was something else i wanted to buy but the US govt doesnt even allow it to be sold here (no problem getting it in Canada).. its for removing skin tags, apparently the US doesnt think Americans smart enough to use it properly..

So its sorta funny cuz on one hand, you have a nanny state with the govt telling you what meds you are allowed to buy and how much, otoh, they let anyone (except with a serious criminal record) have an arsenol of guns and weaponry.. It just seems.. a little strange to me/outside observers..




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