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RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/8/2012 10:39:23 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
Being a Criminalogist...I would like to see your data on school disciplinary actions being a precursor to later criminal activity. I, myself got suspended in high school and sent to the Principles Office a few times. Yet, in my adult life, a few parking tickets and one moving violation, hardly what you would call a career criminal. I spent 18 years in the military, got a degree...


If you're into criminology, just have a look at the scholastic background of your average prison inmate. He probably isn't a straight A student with impeccable attendance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
The only person who said Zimmerman was going to the store was his brother on a news show.


Really? Because I've seen it a number of times now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
If you think you can carry your weapon around, go to your nearist FBI and walk in with it...


Again, irrelevant because Zimmerman wasn't going to or coming from the FBI. This point is invalid, you should drop it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
and again...why would you need a weapon to go to the store? Or is it just an ego thing?


Because criminals who will attack, rob and murder you won't wait for you to go home and get your gun before they attack. They hit you when you least expect it...such as on routine errands. This point you're trying to make continues to fail. You should drop it as well. *You* and your snarky attitude don't get to decide who can carry or where they can carry. The constitution does, with obvious exceptions. However, except in places where it's forbidden by federal law, a CHL holder can absolutely carry where they choose. It's kinda the whole point of the CHL system.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 321
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/9/2012 5:28:02 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

The only person who said Zimmerman was going to the store was his brother on a news show.



Actually, I got that info from a statement by the Sanford Police Department. I even quoted it at one point.

quote:



If you think you can carry your weapon around, go to your nearist FBI and walk in with it.



"Carrying a weapon around" and "taking a weapon into a federal building" aren't exactly synonymous. The former is legal with the proper permits. The latter, notsomuch.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 322
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/9/2012 6:59:36 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
Being a Criminalogist...I would like to see your data on school disciplinary actions being a precursor to later criminal activity. I, myself got suspended in high school and sent to the Principles Office a few times. Yet, in my adult life, a few parking tickets and one moving violation, hardly what you would call a career criminal. I spent 18 years in the military, got a degree...


If you're into criminology, just have a look at the scholastic background of your average prison inmate. He probably isn't a straight A student with impeccable attendance.
I worked in Prisons, you would be surprised at some of the inmates IQs.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
The only person who said Zimmerman was going to the store was his brother on a news show.


Really? Because I've seen it a number of times now.

I have not seen it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
If you think you can carry your weapon around, go to your nearist FBI and walk in with it...


Again, irrelevant because Zimmerman wasn't going to or coming from the FBI. This point is invalid, you should drop it.
You are the one who claims that those with concealed weapons permits can go anywhere....so my point is not invalided.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
and again...why would you need a weapon to go to the store? Or is it just an ego thing?


Because criminals who will attack, rob and murder you won't wait for you to go home and get your gun before they attack. They hit you when you least expect it...such as on routine errands. This point you're trying to make continues to fail. You should drop it as well. *You* and your snarky attitude don't get to decide who can carry or where they can carry. The constitution does, with obvious exceptions. However, except in places where it's forbidden by federal law, a CHL holder can absolutely carry where they choose. It's kinda the whole point of the CHL system.


So you are assuming that if you go to the store you will be attacked, so you need a weapon to defend yourself. Does this happen everytime you go to the store?

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 323
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/9/2012 7:03:46 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

The only person who said Zimmerman was going to the store was his brother on a news show.



Actually, I got that info from a statement by the Sanford Police Department. I even quoted it at one point.
Have not seen it
quote:


If you think you can carry your weapon around, go to your nearist FBI and walk in with it.



"Carrying a weapon around" and "taking a weapon into a federal building" aren't exactly synonymous. The former is legal with the proper permits. The latter, notsomuch.


I was responding to a comment that those with concealed weapons permit can go anywhere. I believe a Federal building is included in "anywhere"

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 324
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/9/2012 7:36:33 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


I was responding to a comment that those with concealed weapons permit can go anywhere. I believe a Federal building is included in "anywhere"

Actually, in most if not all states, a property owner or tenant can disallow weapons on their personal or business property.
Second amendment rights do not trump private property rights although there are several state legislatures including the one here in TN who are discussing it.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 325
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/9/2012 8:24:45 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Wasn't the open carry idiot who was taken off their dentist's register because they were packing to the surgery from Tennessee?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 326
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/9/2012 8:26:59 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Wasn't the open carry idiot who was taken off their dentist's register because they were packing to the surgery from Tennessee?

I don't recall that story.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 327
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/9/2012 8:37:55 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		There was a thread about it on here last year, but as I don't recall the name, it'd be hard to find.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 328
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/9/2012 10:58:57 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
I worked in Prisons, you would be surprised at some of the inmates IQs.


Didn't say a word about IQs, did I? Nope. I specifically mentioned grades and attendance, ie. the scholastic record, which is what we were discussing in Martin's case.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
You are the one who claims that those with concealed weapons permits can go anywhere....so my point is not invalided.


Sure it is. Because apart from splitting common-sense hairs (which is what you're doing to avoid acknowledging the truth about CHLs), you have no other point to make. Of course there are places you can't take a firearm. But apart from those few places, where federal law or a private property owner prohibits it, CHL holders can carry their weapons where they like.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
So you are assuming that if you go to the store you will be attacked, so you need a weapon to defend yourself. Does this happen everytime you go to the store?


It doesn't matter how often it happens. It does happen. Do you not watch the news at all? In the 2-mile area where I live, a special education teacher was robbed and beaten in the grocery story parking lot, put into a coma. A man was robbed and shot at the 7-11, another man was stabbed outside of a restaurant, and yet another was robbed in the parking lot of what's considered a very high-end mall.

It happens quite a bit. Some would like to carry a firearm in case it happens to them. The second amendment, as well as CHL laws, allow them to do so. You have no say in that, no matter how snarky you choose to be in your replies.


< Message edited by DarqueMirror -- 5/9/2012 11:01:37 PM >

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 329
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/10/2012 8:35:20 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
I worked in Prisons, you would be surprised at some of the inmates IQs.


Didn't say a word about IQs, did I? Nope. I specifically mentioned grades and attendance, ie. the scholastic record, which is what we were discussing in Martin's case.
There are many inmates in prison right now with advance degrees, you would also be surprised how many inmates get advance degrees while in prison.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
You are the one who claims that those with concealed weapons permits can go anywhere....so my point is not invalided.


Sure it is. Because apart from splitting common-sense hairs (which is what you're doing to avoid acknowledging the truth about CHLs), you have no other point to make. Of course there are places you can't take a firearm. But apart from those few places, where federal law or a private property owner prohibits it, CHL holders can carry their weapons where they like.
You are the one who said "anywhere" I sugguest you look up the defination of anywhere.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
So you are assuming that if you go to the store you will be attacked, so you need a weapon to defend yourself. Does this happen everytime you go to the store?


It doesn't matter how often it happens. It does happen. Do you not watch the news at all? In the 2-mile area where I live, a special education teacher was robbed and beaten in the grocery story parking lot, put into a coma. A man was robbed and shot at the 7-11, another man was stabbed outside of a restaurant, and yet another was robbed in the parking lot of what's considered a very high-end mall.

It happens quite a bit. Some would like to carry a firearm in case it happens to them. The second amendment, as well as CHL laws, allow them to do so. You have no say in that, no matter how snarky you choose to be in your replies.


I am going to share with you a real life experience I had. There was a time I carried a firearm, my job required to do so. I went into a small postal annex just to drop off some mail. I walked into a robbery. I was not carrying my firearm. It was small crowed with women and children etc. I sat there as instructed to at gun point, made notes of the robbers. Shortly after that they left, no one was harmed. I gave my statement to Detective, the Detective stated I was their best witness, the robbers were arrested a short time later. At the trial I and the Post Master for the Annex were the only witnesses called by the Prosecution, they were convicted. You think if I had my firearm the robber would be dead, I rather would hate to think how many women and children would be have been shot.

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 330
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/10/2012 9:36:02 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		And meanwhile I know of probably half a dozen robberies that were stopped by armed citizenry (the most recent in a liquor store earlier this year). I also know of someone who was armed during a robbery but didn't pull his weapon to stop them because he didn't feel the situation was such that he'd be capable without risk to bystanders.

So when you say

quote:

You think if I had my firearm the robber would be dead, I rather would hate to think how many women and children would be have been shot.


I don't think you really know what some of us think. Personally I think each situation is different. There's been at least one time where I badly wish I had been armed though because I could have kept an innocent bystander from being hurt; it's what prompted me to get licensed.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 331
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/10/2012 9:57:15 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

And meanwhile I know of probably half a dozen robberies that were stopped by armed citizenry (the most recent in a liquor store earlier this year). I also know of someone who was armed during a robbery but didn't pull his weapon to stop them because he didn't feel the situation was such that he'd be capable without risk to bystanders.

So when you say

quote:

You think if I had my firearm the robber would be dead, I rather would hate to think how many women and children would be have been shot.


I don't think you really know what some of us think. Personally I think each situation is different. There's been at least one time where I badly wish I had been armed though because I could have kept an innocent bystander from being hurt; it's what prompted me to get licensed.

My point is carring a firearm is not the best nor the right answer in many situations, many police officer have had the firearm taken from them and killed. Just carring a firearm does not guarantee anyones safety

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 332
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/10/2012 9:59:31 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Don't think anyone is suggesting it guarantees safety. But carrying one does give you an option that you otherwise would not have.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 333
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/10/2012 10:05:42 AM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Wasn't the open carry idiot who was taken off their dentist's register because they were packing to the surgery from Tennessee?


MAN! Now that's a fucking LooLoo ... he wakes up in a Sodium thiopental fog and realizes he is threatened

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Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


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Profile   Post #: 334
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/10/2012 10:06:59 AM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Don't think anyone is suggesting it guarantees safety. But carrying one does give you an option that you otherwise would not have.


yeah, showing how dangerous and inept you are AT A WHOLE NEW LEVEL.

_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 335
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/10/2012 10:08:46 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Don't think anyone is suggesting it guarantees safety. But carrying one does give you an option that you otherwise would not have.

Again no guarantees...

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 336
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/10/2012 10:11:37 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun in The Post you just quoted

Don't think anyone is suggesting it guarantees safety.



(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 337
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/10/2012 10:12:57 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Don't think anyone is suggesting it guarantees safety. But carrying one does give you an option that you otherwise would not have.


yeah, showing how dangerous and inept you are AT A WHOLE NEW LEVEL.



Maybe if that person is dangerous and inept to begin with.

(in reply to SternSkipper)
Profile   Post #: 338
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/10/2012 10:18:51 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Don't think anyone is suggesting it guarantees safety. But carrying one does give you an option that you otherwise would not have.

yeah, showing how dangerous and inept you are AT A WHOLE NEW LEVEL.

How do you get to that conclusion from what seems a perfectly rational observation?

K.

(in reply to SternSkipper)
Profile   Post #: 339
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/10/2012 10:20:36 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

And meanwhile I know of probably half a dozen robberies that were stopped by armed citizenry (the most recent in a liquor store earlier this year). I also know of someone who was armed during a robbery but didn't pull his weapon to stop them because he didn't feel the situation was such that he'd be capable without risk to bystanders.

So when you say

quote:

You think if I had my firearm the robber would be dead, I rather would hate to think how many women and children would be have been shot.


I don't think you really know what some of us think. Personally I think each situation is different. There's been at least one time where I badly wish I had been armed though because I could have kept an innocent bystander from being hurt; it's what prompted me to get licensed.

My point is carring a firearm is not the best nor the right answer in many situations, many police officer have had the firearm taken from them and killed. Just carring a firearm does not guarantee anyones safety


Yet they carry them. You are correct that a firearm is not the proper response in many situations. But for those where they are?

I'm curious as to just what you'd have to say to that woman? What words of wisdom would you offer her?



_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 340
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