RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack....

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RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/18/2012 10:01:52 AM

Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

Can't have an election year without a totally nob-existent threat to the gun lobby. They get all pissed off like an 8 year old not invited to a birthday party.

I'll have to admit that it did lead to me finding some wacked out shit in an effort to help along a debate with the kind of back up the issue deserves:

Philosophical; Commentary:
http://iranianredneck.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/armed-black-men-our-only-hope-for-gun-control/

Science:
http://www.cracked.com/article_19781_6-stupid-gun-myths-everyone-believes-thanks-to-movies.html

Fun Projects For The Kiddies:

http://www.ehow.com/info_7866375_school-projects-gun-safety.html

And Of Course, What better debating tool than examples of gun safety at work:

http://gorillamask.net/index.php?show_page=video&start_results=11500&page_id=14882&

Good links but I can't get the last one to play because it needs a plug in that I can't seem to get. I would have liked to have seen this one "10 Of The Funniest Gun Mishaps and Accidents Caught On Camera"

try here
http://cottonandsand.com/sandandcotton/?p=2669

Oh thank you Lucy......I don't have time now but will watch them all later. I think we have all seen the ATF guy that Owner posted, (it's in there) shoot himself in the leg. And I believe I saw one of them after it happened on the news, (female officer shoots partner in the leg). I'll know once I see it.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/18/2012 8:57:01 PM

Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Ok you find them in the St. Louis area and show me

Nope. I don't take requests. Nor do I do others' work for them.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/18/2012 8:58:37 PM

Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Someone who shoots another needs to prove they were threatened.......not just that they "felt" threatened or "thought" they were threatened.

So what you're essentially saying is you'd rather people were guilty until proven innocent? That goes against the very nature of our justice system.

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/18/2012 9:02:02 PM

Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
But once a line has been crossed,someone`s death,only a LEO should determine whether the killing was justified.

LEOs don't determine that. They gather evidence and present it to a prosecutor, possibly recommending charges. The prosecutor then determines if charges will be filed. Once that happens, a judge or a jury determines if it's justified or not.

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/19/2012 11:18:13 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

yea right...because you can't...is that it...lol... you are like most fanatics...You refuse reality when it is opposed to your narrow way of thinking. Will at least I can classify you now as irrelevant.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DarqueMirror)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/19/2012 3:08:39 PM

Posts: 487
Joined: 3/28/2012
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Listen how some posters are talking about "disparity of force" and how you can only use the "force necessary to match the agressors force." Think about it. The ATTACKER sets ALL the rules? Bullshit! I'm old. Im not going to try to "match force" with some young punk and take a beating, maybe lose an eye, broken bones or disabling injuries because some asshole thinks its neat to beat an old man. Women shouldn't have to submit either.

I have a carry permit and have it in my jacket pocket. Just a small .22 with the safty on. some asshole thinks he has an easy mark, Thumb clicks off the safty, I tell him to leave me alone. If not, and he gets threatning, he gets a 22 caliber vasectomy right thru the jacket pocket. Women should carry too. First, you don't know what he has. A gun, a knife, club, whatever. Lets make the streets safe for lawful citizens, NOT criminals.

(in reply to LizDeluxe)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/19/2012 5:37:31 PM

xssve

Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Someone who shoots another needs to prove they were threatened.......not just that they "felt" threatened or "thought" they were threatened.

So what you're essentially saying is you'd rather people were guilty until proven innocent? That goes against the very nature of our justice system.

Lol, IT"S MURDER until it's proven to be self defense.

The shooter has committed a capital crime and needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they felt their lives were threatened JUST LIKE ANY OTHER CASE OF SELF DEFENSE.

Jesus.

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Walking nightmare...

(in reply to DarqueMirror)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/19/2012 5:45:43 PM

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

Is that phrase "SYG" or "S His G" or "S One's G" in any statute anywhere?

(in reply to xssve)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/19/2012 5:47:05 PM

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

Lol, IT"S MURDER until it's proven to be self defense.

The shooter has committed a capital crime and needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they felt their lives were threatened JUST LIKE ANY OTHER CASE OF SELF DEFENSE.

S/he's not presumed innocent until proven guilty? When did that change?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to xssve)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/19/2012 7:55:40 PM

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

Listen how some posters are talking about "disparity of force" and how you can only use the "force necessary to match the agressors force." Think about it. The ATTACKER sets ALL the rules? Bullshit! I'm old. Im not going to try to "match force" with some young punk and take a beating, maybe lose an eye, broken bones or disabling injuries because some asshole thinks its neat to beat an old man. Women shouldn't have to submit either.

I have a carry permit and have it in my jacket pocket. Just a small .22 with the safty on. some asshole thinks he has an easy mark, Thumb clicks off the safty, I tell him to leave me alone. If not, and he gets threatning, he gets a 22 caliber vasectomy right thru the jacket pocket. Women should carry too. First, you don't know what he has. A gun, a knife, club, whatever. Lets make the streets safe for lawful citizens, NOT criminals.

How about making the streets safe for kids walking to their own homes?

How would a shoot-out between you and George go?

"who are you?..."

"emmm,who are you?"

"I asked you 1st".......

"fuck you kid.....I gotta 22 here in my pocket....."

"yeah well my gun`s bigger old man......Now who are you?"

"I live here whippersnapper......who are you?"......

"I`m rambo and I`m here to protect you"......BLAM!

"hello police?"....."I`m a watch-captain and just shot and old guy who was threatening me with a 22"......"yeah,I`ll wait for you to get here"

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to papassion)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/20/2012 6:51:21 AM

Posts: 487
Joined: 3/28/2012
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There is a need for stand your ground laws to protect the lawful citizen. As it is, even with the law, The CRIMINAL sets all the rules! How much force is to be used, what kind of weapons will be used, etc, etc. Lets make crime a HAZARDOUS occupation for the CRIMINAL!

I have a friend who goes about 260 lbs, built like a gym rat. He is a bouncer at a club. He said even he has to be careful when ejecting a roudy "90 poiund weakling" as the "weakling" could be carrying a gun or knife. At night, when you are being accosted and in panic mode, how the f*** do you know what the attacker is carrying or what his plans for you are? It should be understood in big letters and bright lights, you accost someone, its open season on the attacker!

(in reply to LizDeluxe)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/20/2012 7:03:32 AM

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

Yep Zimmerman set the rule.

(in reply to papassion)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/20/2012 7:25:06 AM

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amazing that ONLY the US NEEDs a SYG law

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(in reply to MrBukani)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/20/2012 7:39:45 AM

Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Someone who shoots another needs to prove they were threatened.......not just that they "felt" threatened or "thought" they were threatened.

So what you're essentially saying is you'd rather people were guilty until proven innocent? That goes against the very nature of our justice system.

I would certainly rather people were proven guilty before they were executed. Call me an old stickler, but I think it's pretty fucking reasonable to ask someone who has just killed someone else to justify their actions.

I mean.... christ on a stick!

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/20/2012 9:01:19 AM

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

Listen how some posters are talking about "disparity of force" and how you can only use the "force necessary to match the agressors force." Think about it. The ATTACKER sets ALL the rules? Bullshit! I'm old. Im not going to try to "match force" with some young punk and take a beating, maybe lose an eye, broken bones or disabling injuries because some asshole thinks its neat to beat an old man. Women shouldn't have to submit either.

I have a carry permit and have it in my jacket pocket. Just a small .22 with the safty on. some asshole thinks he has an easy mark, Thumb clicks off the safty, I tell him to leave me alone. If not, and he gets threatning, he gets a 22 caliber vasectomy right thru the jacket pocket. Women should carry too. First, you don't know what he has. A gun, a knife, club, whatever. Lets make the streets safe for lawful citizens, NOT criminals.

You're the criminal and make the streets unsafe.

(in reply to papassion)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/20/2012 9:02:36 AM

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Lol, IT"S MURDER until it's proven to be self defense.

The shooter has committed a capital crime and needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they felt their lives were threatened JUST LIKE ANY OTHER CASE OF SELF DEFENSE.

S/he's not presumed innocent until proven guilty? When did that change?

When he argued self defence. You have to first admit you did the violence in the first place. Then, in most places, the burden shifts to you.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/20/2012 9:05:32 AM

Posts: 14414
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

amazing that ONLY the US NEEDs a SYG law

That's because in Mexico it would be useless. The drug cartels have bigger guns, not to mention they'd hunt down, torture and kill your entire family if you dared to defend yourself against one of their members.

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The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/20/2012 10:04:24 AM

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

amazing that ONLY the US NEEDs a SYG law

That's because in Mexico it would be useless. The drug cartels have bigger guns, not to mention they'd hunt down, torture and kill your entire family if you dared to defend yourself against one of their members.

Yeah nobody would dare try that in the US. That's why we got rid of the Federal Witness Protection Program. Oh wait.....

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/20/2012 9:08:06 PM

Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
yea right...because you can't...is that it...lol... you are like most fanatics...You refuse reality when it is opposed to your narrow way of thinking. Will at least I can classify you now as irrelevant.

And I can lump you in with those who base their argument on fantasy over facts and refuse to do research for themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 4/20/2012 9:09:39 PM

Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion
Listen how some posters are talking about "disparity of force" and how you can only use the "force necessary to match the agressors force." Think about it. The ATTACKER sets ALL the rules? Bullshit! I'm old. Im not going to try to "match force" with some young punk and take a beating, maybe lose an eye, broken bones or disabling injuries because some asshole thinks its neat to beat an old man. Women shouldn't have to submit either.

I have a carry permit and have it in my jacket pocket. Just a small .22 with the safty on. some asshole thinks he has an easy mark, Thumb clicks off the safty, I tell him to leave me alone. If not, and he gets threatning, he gets a 22 caliber vasectomy right thru the jacket pocket. Women should carry too. First, you don't know what he has. A gun, a knife, club, whatever. Lets make the streets safe for lawful citizens, NOT criminals.

Well said. That's exactly the reason stand your ground laws and castle doctrines were passed.

(in reply to papassion)

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