quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu
But what if you being selfish made Carol happier? I think that's where it gets a bit fuzzy.

That comment... and littlewonder's above... make me wonder. Remembering that Carol has no particular drive to submit and harbors no sexy fantasies about submission or slavery, the entire thing is pointed squarely at me. The single and only reason she does it is because it pleases me. By default, Carol in her own words "prefers to defer". But there's a world of difference between that and absolute obedience. In the biggest picture, the whole gig is for me. I know that and I'm willing to take what is offered within the limits of my own judgement as to what is good for US. In that sense what I do is selfish. I just have a hard time seeing it that way because so much of my attention and thought goes to wanting her to be happy, fulfilled, and generally at the top of Maslow's pyramid.

That being said, there are absolutely times I take what I want because I want it. Realistically, that HAS to be the correct answer at least some of the time when considering the good of "us". In addition, there's this other factor between Carol and I. It's true that I'm unlikely to want anything she actively does not. But it's also true I'm perfectly willing to reach inside of her and simply change what she wants or values thereby bringing us into alignment. So yeah, certainly for Carol and I things are more than a bit fuzzy. My way out of that insanity was just to see us as one unit instead of two people. That gets me out of the "I want what she wants which is what I want..." craziness and leaves me with the simple problem of "what's going to make the most happiness".

quote:

The best example I know of what you're talking about graceadieu is beth (half of Mercnbeth). As far as she is concerned she promised Merc "anything" and that she was not just another bottom pretending to be a slave when they got together. My understanding is she can get pretty testy with him when she even sniffs out that there might, perhaps, be some horrid deed that he's unwilling to perform. The last time I heard about such a conversation her line was something like, "What? You think I'm a liar?" ROFL, and knowing what all Merc gets up to, I can only boggle at what, exactly, he balked on. Whatever it was though it just had to be a doozie. Still though, as I understand it, she was genuinely offended *laughs* -- freakin slaves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu



So you act selfishly, but make sure that she wants it too, so it doesn't seem selfish? Just kidding, but I do think that's very interesting.

quote:

...if the relationship is all about love and romance with a bit of kink it is going to end up the bedroom only, weekend warrior type of relationship, not something very deep on the kink or submission side.

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu
So you act selfishly, but make sure that she wants it too, so it doesn't seem selfish? Just kidding, but I do think that's very interesting.

quote:

I know we've had that sort of talk before in our house, lol.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
Jeff: I love reading your posts. I've been reading a lot longer than I've been signed up and I always enjoy your thoughtful comments. In some small ways I see us in your relationship with Carol.

quote:

And as many others have said, I can't imagine I would submit without love. For us, the submission and love grew up side by side, they are heavily intertwined. We actually all but abandoned any D/s dynamic for a while, and it didn't work for us.

quote:

but I know there are things on his 'wish list' that terrify me and make me cringe. He has never in six years had me submit to those things. This is a dilemma for me. He wants them, and I absolutely want him to have everything he wants. I want to do whatever it takes, even if I hate it, to meet his wants. But he doesn't ask them of me.

quote:

He doesn't get off on emotional sadism, and so I think that no matter how willing I am, knowing I detest something would spoil it for him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
For me love and trust can be connected but not dependent. I can inspire love, grow the emotion of love in someone by gaining their trust. However, I do not have trust someone I love. I love some family members but know I can't always trust them. In short, one emotion can lead to another but they can also exist separately.

quote:

For me, seeing emotions, how they exists, their connections and their independence, allows me to "add love" without changing the other aspects of my relationship dramatically. I can love a slave or a wife and my level of authority does not change. However, my slave or a wife always had an influence on the mutual relationship goals in the first place, but that degree influence doesn't change or get metered by the degree of love.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi
I don't know, it just never crosses my mind to think of my guy as my Dominant, he's just him. I don't think of him by his 'title' as it were but by who he is. It's not to say we've chucked out the D/s in our lives...we haven't. It's just incorporated seamlessly into how we see each other and what's important in the end is the person, not the role.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I completely understand this lizi. Carol and I were together and unknowingly in a D/s relationship long before we had any clue of that. The roles and titles will always be eclipsed by our actual selves. I suspect that is, in part, what muddies the water for us but that's muddy water I am quite content to be swimming in :) Here on the boards I wrangle over these things -- trying to understand both myself and the larger world a bit better. In real life mostly it's just a whole lot of being happy.