quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

well this thread has certainly been interesting for sure.

however, i do find some of what has been said disturbing. the more i've thought about the original op the more i've thought 'why would you even want to?'

surely the person you are presented with at the start is what you are attracted to. so why on earth would you want their ego to be a carbon copy of your own? that to me is a very wrong thing to want. not only that, but i would consider the person who would allow me to do that to them to be weak. in which case i would find them highly unattractive. i realise that i am not perfect, in which case why would i want someone to compound what is wrong with me? i want the person i am with to be their own person, and i want to bolster their ego not tear it down.

my ego is my own, small as it may be, but i am not giving it up for anyone. nore is my ego easily flattered. i don't care what most people think of me on any basis. however, if my playmate tried to undo my ego as it is i would find it extremely hurtful. nore could i defer to someone without resenting them if i thought they were wrong. i'd see this as being very damaging to myself, so why would i want to do it to another?

support and bolster (where needed) the ego of your person, but to change it to be a carbon copy of your own is wrong.

needles

quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Real nice op Bita.

"Do you, as a dominant, feel that you take the place of your submissives super-ego?"

Absolutely yes. Not just as a dominant but being a macho type in general, as a relationship partner, I feel it is my job to become an extension of or replacement for my partner's super-ego. I want them to see themselves through my eyes and discover the beauty I see in them. I want them to be pretty or have an attractive personality for me, their ego to become the reflection as seen in my eyes. I want them to see the world from my perspective and adopt my morals (or lack thereof). Every day is a non recoverable investment of your time, I want them to learn to invest their time with me in a life that is rewarding and adventurous.

To get someone to the point that everything, absolutely everything is a pleasant adventure I often need to "strip away the reality" or at least some of the reality they once new.

This says some pretty negative things about the women you want. They can't have their own sense of the beauty of themselves? Why would they have to adopt your morals, what is lacking in theirs? Why would their life be non-rewarding outside of your 'investment'?

If reality is narrowed down solely to your own definitions, you'd best be perfect, or they also adopt your flaws. It sounds good on the surface, until you look at the reality of being human. This is not forging a relationship, it's making a reflection of yourself, and that is narcissism. Accepting a person for who they are is harder, but it's also worth it.

I hope you allow yourself to rethink this. Taking it to heart is debasing in the true sense of the word, not in the bedroom fun-and-games aspect. Rewriting a human being shouldn't be casual or enthusiastic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

RemoteUser’s comments blew me away because I looked at it as if, “what must he see in women to make comments such as these?” Seriously, to let a women see the beauty you see in her has nothing to do with robbing her of her identity, it expands it. To adopt someone’s morals is no worse than imposing a religion and it’s morals on your wife or parent’s religion on their kids. I don’t know how he expected to look sane up there on that holier than thou horse he rode in on while telling me I need to rethink what I do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser
Sexualizing the deprecation of a human being from the inside out is morally debatable at its kindest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
Sooooooo, all that you describe is fine . . . for you and those like you with smaller minds and smaller egos that want to sling words like narcissism at people like me that live each day without regrets or self conflict about their dominance or deviant desires. I am not a reluctant dominant. I am not the reticent hero with a complex that believes women are so fragile they can’t afford a little change to make themselves more compatible and beautiful for their man without losing themselves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
Right.. and you flew. How does that not fucking rock in every way?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

Ah yes... spoken like a true vanilla. Don't you think it's fair of me in return to mention the sexualizing of violence against women and how awful that is? As is always true with discussions like this the people who don't do it don't have a clue what they are talking about. So instead they invent some monster in their head and say "monsters are evil". You know... monsters like say... sadists.

quote:



Beautifully put RS. What you've said is what I mean when I say, The one thing which is completely unacceptable in BDSM is dominance and submission.. Conveniently for me, Carol is not a fragile little flower. She's unwilling to fall back on any of the standard sub safety nets. In fact, she's unwilling to fall back on ANY excuse. She has lined up behind me and there she stands or falls but she has no particular interest in simply giving up. She is a strong, capable woman who is perfectly willing to change her "wiring" to suit the needs of our marriage... or at least give it the ol' college try. I'm the first to admit that such things are not nearly as perfect as her external obedience. But neither of us sees the complexity and muddiness as a reason to not even try.

quote:


Well yes... we certainly think so. I think another point worth mentioning is that I had enough confidence in both Carol and myself that my decision to leap really amounted to, "We are strong people. If this turns out to be as foolish as it appears then we'll fall, skin our knees, pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off then move on." Underpinning it all was an act of strength and courage and belief in ourselves... quite the opposite of the picture you're starting to see here from some other posters.

quote:


By the way, the "leap" for me was not this in particular. The leap off that cliff was embracing the word "total" in every respect... this being just one of them. It was letting go of, as RS so nicely put it, being a reluctant dominant.

quote:


And yes, I think sticking to generics is wise. Without even scratching the surface of this topic we already have hints of "monstrous" showing up here. The moment we started discussing even the most benign of real examples things would go from bad to worse quickly and I'd end up hiding another handful of posters who I might otherwise respect. Down this road there be monsters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
oh Jeff, i find your responce so disappointing. quite often i like reading your postings even if i don't agree with you. however, your belittling dismissal of other in this thread leaves me shaking my head at you. also, seriously, hiding people whom you may otherwise respect because they don't agree with you on this topic....really? i expected better of you.

quote:

Who would want a woman that didn’t want to please her man? You’re fucking joking right . . . you really believe that beauty is a self inspired image? Woman wear lipstick, makeup, bras and use hair dye, hair remover, perfume etc . . . where in the world did you get the silly notion they have their own sense of beauty? You think they popped out of the womb, looked down at their legs and said, I can’t wait until I am old enough to start shaving these things?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
You do realize that your 'tuning out the sermon' could equally be seen as 'willful ignorance driven by fear and insecurity'.

quote:

 why not simply hide me and be done with it?