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RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 6:56:38 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		He's another pawn of the biggest corporate promoter in modern times--the NRA. They say "Look out!" and their puppets buy more guns.


(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 7:03:23 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

You do know that's just asking for a GIF of some obscure gilded age court judgement with a few bits that are completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand picked out in highlighter pen?



thats called Stare Decis


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 7:08:37 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

peo·ple
   [pee-puhl] --a GROUP
noun
1.
persons indefinitely or collectively; persons in general: to find it easy to talk to people; What will people think?
2.
persons, whether men, women, or children, considered as numerable individuals forming a group: Twenty people volunteered to help.
3.
human beings, as distinguished from animals or other beings.
4.
the entire body of persons who constitute a community, tribe, nation, or other group by virtue of a common culture, history, religion, or the like: the people of Australia; the Jewish people.
5.
the persons of any particular group, company, or number (sometimes used in combination): the people of a parish; educated people; salespeople.



but King George;

People or the community are composed of (mostly) legal entities known as "persons".

It is a group made up of "men", "women" and legal persons. Each with rights.

The word people does not create a corporation.

It is complete loony tunes to come out here with precisely one of the issues the revolutionary war was fought over try to claim that the guarantee to respect the rights of people does not include persons that make up that group.

So supposedly the "people" created a constitution that only respects collective rights, not personal or worse not "primary", "Inherent" rights?

You really dont believe "people" are that fucking ignorant out here do you?



< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/27/2012 7:12:06 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 523
RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 7:10:06 AM   
Thaz


Posts: 617
Joined: 4/28/2012
Status: offline 		Are we debating what a Countrys Laws currently say or are we debating what is right?

As someone from a country with no Consititution (just a juggernaught of tradition and respect for freedoms) I'm not overly dogmatic on not changing the law if its wrong. I just dont trust a lot of politicians to change it in a non-insane manner.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 524
RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 7:11:14 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Apparently they are.


Q.E.D. 

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RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 7:15:37 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thaz

Are we debating what a Countrys Laws currently say or are we debating what is right?

As someone from a country with no Consititution (just a juggernaught of tradition and respect for freedoms) I'm not overly dogmatic on not changing the law if its wrong. I just dont trust a lot of politicians to change it in a non-insane manner.



well a prime example are the politicians on this board trying to promote even greater slave/police state than we have now.


it is well accepted where the bear shits in the buckwheat in my state.









constitutions are made for commerce and have not a damn thing to do with inherent or primary rights EXCEPT that we know they will be violated in the name of business and in this case totalitarian police power as the King would have it.


Oh and BTW those so called "FREE INHABITANTS" were against the constitution and NEVER VOTED FOR IT because the delegates voted instead and as we can see it is well known just who the fuck those delegates were!!! No statewide referendum ever existed

Same with the original 13, only one colony actually had the "people" vote.




and since I am having so much fun here, 60,000 was the number required for "Kings Service" LOL

In other words when the King took over a country by "conquest" then for the establishment of HIS Domain, when the number feeoffments that could be issued reached 60,000 the king would divy up the land to his nobles and shire riefs to insure TAXES would be collected.

There is no "significant" difference in land law in america under the state than there was in england under the king.

No feudalism and land law are not one in the same within that ocntext however they are linked at the hip.

Hail the king!







< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/27/2012 7:28:42 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Thaz)
Profile   Post #: 526
RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 7:30:56 AM   
Thaz


Posts: 617
Joined: 4/28/2012
Status: offline 		Of course you are arguing from a bad position as far as I'm concerned. I'm a loyal subject of the crown and I would argue that you'd be better off with a Crowned Figurehead as head of state than an elected President.

King George was a pretty decent guy all in all despite the spin during the War of Independance and I'd take him over that traitor Washington anyday :-) Thats a bit of devils advocate position, however generally speaking I'll take Liz II over any President you've had in my life time.

Good luck for you that we were too busy with the French to do more than burn out the Whitehouse.... ;-)

Thaz

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 527
RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 7:39:50 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thaz

Of course you are arguing from a bad position as far as I'm concerned. I'm a loyal subject of the crown and I would argue that you'd be better off with a Crowned Figurehead as head of state than an elected President.

King George was a pretty decent guy all in all despite the spin during the War of Independance and I'd take him over that traitor Washington anyday :-) Thats a bit of devils advocate position, however generally speaking I'll take Liz II over any President you've had in my life time.

Good luck for you that we were too busy with the French to do more than burn out the Whitehouse.... ;-)

Thaz


I would counter-argue that "figurehead" is not a technical legal or equitable term and if you wish to do an exhaustive examination of the duties and obligations of the King they are almost identical with that of the president in this country.

How about I more appropriately say "Hail the Crown" :)

Oh what would happen if the people got educated and abolished that and all other ancient aristocratic TRUSTS, set up to trump and undermine the rights of the people?

Would the world be a better place for it?

more; they already burned the whitehouse. It was common practice to burn the depositories of deeds to pull the bart simpson. "Didnt see me cant prove a thing." Then re-title under the new realm and claim jurisdiction.

Oh and btw, your point about Liz is well taken, our canadian friends are making far more headway in the courts under the crown than we in america are. (even though the crown has no truly legitimate authority over the indians in the first place)




< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/27/2012 7:47:26 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Thaz)
Profile   Post #: 528
RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 8:46:41 AM   
Thaz


Posts: 617
Joined: 4/28/2012
Status: offline 		Hmmm?

See if they did that what would it be replaced with? The problem is that the electorate is neither entirely educated, smart or unselfish. As a result those verminous politicians get involved. Some politicians are still there to do good as they see it. Far more are corrupted along the way or were always in it for the benefit of themselves or their peers. And so attempts to turn the UK House of Lords into a second elected chamber are not my favored solution any more than an elected head of state would be. I would far rather than a random selection of the populace was selected for a fixed term with no chance of multiple terms to the second house. Some filtering for lack of serious criminal background and literacy/numeracy preferable and a requirement to swear an oath of loyalty. If they really like it and show talent they can always run as MP after their term is up. Keep the Law Lords but select from those licensed and actively practising law and expand the Lords Spirtual to include a similar selection of priests of differing faiths and expand the Lords of the Admiralty to have various people who have served their nation (having informed ex-rank and file soldiers, sailors and airmen in the house may reduce the number of wars commited to)...make sure these groups are still a minority compared to the normal pool.

The second house to act as conscience and break on the excesses of elected politicians aka vermin.

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 8:55:52 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I am a democrat who owns guns and is a member of the NRA.

I have yet to hear anything come out of an NRA spokesman that makes me want to go out and buy more guns.

However, my collection includes some antique firearms, some black powder replicas, and some modern weapons that some misguided individuals refer to assault weapons. They are semi automatic versions of military firearms.

I also have started the process to allow me to legally own automatics.

I will be honest, I am planning to start a terrorist organization dedicated to the reestablishment of the super continent Pangaea. I have not figured out how to move all the continental plates back into the proper positions to recreate the continent, but that is a minor problem.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Thaz)
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RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 9:44:56 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		fr

SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - A citizen with a gun stopped a knife wielding man as he began stabbing people Thursday evening at the downtown Salt Lake City Smith's store.

Police say the suspect purchased a knife inside the store and then turned it into a weapon. Smith's employee Dorothy Espinoza says, "He pulled it out and stood outside the Smiths in the foyer. And just started stabbing people and yelling you killed my people. You killed my people."

Espinoza says, the knife wielding man seriously injured two people. "There is blood all over. One got stabbed in the stomach and got stabbed in the head and held his hands and got stabbed all over the arms."

Then, before the suspect could find another victim - a citizen with a gun stopped the madness. "A guy pulled gun on him and told him to drop his weapon or he would shoot him. So, he dropped his weapon and the people from Smith's grabbed him."

By the time officers arrived the suspect had been subdued by employees and shoppers. Police had high praise for gun carrying man who ended the hysteria. Lt. Brian Purvis said, "This was a volatile situation that could have gotten worse. We can only assume from what we saw it could have gotten worse. He was definitely in the right place at the right time."

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 531
RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 10:23:03 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		More guns in a darkened cinema wouldnt have stopped the carnage. According to reports, many that were shot were hit by bullets coming through the walls, think of the panic if people had started shooting back blindly.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 532
RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 10:24:00 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I am licensed to carry a concealed fire arm, have an anti social personality, AND have tendency to suffer from road rage....


Does that make me a threat to the public?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 533
RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 10:24:58 AM   
VideoAdminTheta


Posts: 3967
Joined: 10/24/2009
Status: offline 		Good day to you all.

I am going to ask that you all read or refresh your memory on the posting guide that VideoAdminAlpha provided. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3863025

Name calling, derogatory comments about another poster and harassments are not acceptable. Please refrain from using this posting method.

Thank you

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RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 10:33:43 AM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

fr

SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - A citizen with a gun stopped a knife wielding man as he began stabbing people Thursday evening at the downtown Salt Lake City Smith's store.

Police say the suspect purchased a knife inside the store and then turned it into a weapon. Smith's employee Dorothy Espinoza says, "He pulled it out and stood outside the Smiths in the foyer. And just started stabbing people and yelling you killed my people. You killed my people."

Espinoza says, the knife wielding man seriously injured two people. "There is blood all over. One got stabbed in the stomach and got stabbed in the head and held his hands and got stabbed all over the arms."

Then, before the suspect could find another victim - a citizen with a gun stopped the madness. "A guy pulled gun on him and told him to drop his weapon or he would shoot him. So, he dropped his weapon and the people from Smith's grabbed him."

By the time officers arrived the suspect had been subdued by employees and shoppers. Police had high praise for gun carrying man who ended the hysteria. Lt. Brian Purvis said, "This was a volatile situation that could have gotten worse. We can only assume from what we saw it could have gotten worse. He was definitely in the right place at the right time."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18921492

At least 12 people have been killed and 59 wounded in a shooting at a midnight cinema showing of the new Batman film near Denver, Colorado

just to remind you

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RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 11:14:35 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I am a democrat who owns guns and is a member of the NRA.

I have yet to hear anything come out of an NRA spokesman that makes me want to go out and buy more guns.

However, my collection includes some antique firearms, some black powder replicas, and some modern weapons that some misguided individuals refer to assault weapons. They are semi automatic versions of military firearms.

I also have started the process to allow me to legally own automatics.

I will be honest, I am planning to start a terrorist organization dedicated to the reestablishment of the super continent Pangaea. I have not figured out how to move all the continental plates back into the proper positions to recreate the continent, but that is a minor problem.

Of course it does Jeff!....You psycho!

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
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It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 536
RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 11:25:57 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

fr

SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - A citizen with a gun stopped a knife wielding man as he began stabbing people Thursday evening at the downtown Salt Lake City Smith's store.

Police say the suspect purchased a knife inside the store and then turned it into a weapon. Smith's employee Dorothy Espinoza says, "He pulled it out and stood outside the Smiths in the foyer. And just started stabbing people and yelling you killed my people. You killed my people."

Espinoza says, the knife wielding man seriously injured two people. "There is blood all over. One got stabbed in the stomach and got stabbed in the head and held his hands and got stabbed all over the arms."

Then, before the suspect could find another victim - a citizen with a gun stopped the madness. "A guy pulled gun on him and told him to drop his weapon or he would shoot him. So, he dropped his weapon and the people from Smith's grabbed him."

By the time officers arrived the suspect had been subdued by employees and shoppers. Police had high praise for gun carrying man who ended the hysteria. Lt. Brian Purvis said, "This was a volatile situation that could have gotten worse. We can only assume from what we saw it could have gotten worse. He was definitely in the right place at the right time."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18921492

At least 12 people have been killed and 59 wounded in a shooting at a midnight cinema showing of the new Batman film near Denver, Colorado

just to remind you

There was apparently noone carrying in the theater because there were signs prohibiting firearms and those who have carry permits tend to be law abiding and respect the property and wishes of property owners.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 537
RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 11:32:36 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

There was apparently noone carrying in the theater because there were signs prohibiting firearms and those who have carry permits tend to be law abiding and respect the property and wishes of property owners.


Which negates the OP that gun laws wouldnt have prevented this tradegy from happening.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 538
RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 11:47:14 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

There was apparently noone carrying in the theater because there were signs prohibiting firearms and those who have carry permits tend to be law abiding and respect the property and wishes of property owners.


Which negates the OP that gun laws wouldnt have prevented this tradegy from happening.

Absolutely correct.
Somewhere in these threads on the tragedy, I mentioned that property owners have the right to exclude things they don't wish to have on their property. The theater was apparently clearly marked as a place where weapons are unwelcome.
Property rights come before the privelege of carrying and this is one area where I feel the NRA is trying to go too far.

There really is no way to defend yourself from an intelligent (yeah, I know his professors called him a dolt but he has a degree in neurobiology FFS) lone wolf psychopath.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 539
RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/27/2012 11:52:40 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14414
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

fr

SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - A citizen with a gun stopped a knife wielding man as he began stabbing people Thursday evening at the downtown Salt Lake City Smith's store.

Police say the suspect purchased a knife inside the store and then turned it into a weapon. Smith's employee Dorothy Espinoza says, "He pulled it out and stood outside the Smiths in the foyer. And just started stabbing people and yelling you killed my people. You killed my people."

Espinoza says, the knife wielding man seriously injured two people. "There is blood all over. One got stabbed in the stomach and got stabbed in the head and held his hands and got stabbed all over the arms."

Then, before the suspect could find another victim - a citizen with a gun stopped the madness. "A guy pulled gun on him and told him to drop his weapon or he would shoot him. So, he dropped his weapon and the people from Smith's grabbed him."

By the time officers arrived the suspect had been subdued by employees and shoppers. Police had high praise for gun carrying man who ended the hysteria. Lt. Brian Purvis said, "This was a volatile situation that could have gotten worse. We can only assume from what we saw it could have gotten worse. He was definitely in the right place at the right time."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18921492

At least 12 people have been killed and 59 wounded in a shooting at a midnight cinema showing of the new Batman film near Denver, Colorado

just to remind you


Yup and a few years ago, a guy killed 10 people and injured 63 more by driving his Buick through a Farmer's Market.


_____________________________

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The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to hardcybermaster)
Profile   Post #: 540
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