RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives?

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives?

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 7:34:30 AM

Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

Forget gun control, do somethng about civilian access to armor, and tear gas, The tear gas purchase should be a red flag. I personally don't want to be monitored that closely. No matter what you ban, some nutcase will find a way to inflict harm, if they are crazy enough to try. The ban or lack of firearms in the middle east only seems to cause the development of more creative IED's. If someone wants to kill a bunch of people they will find a way. While I don't carrry a gun, i have always wanted people interested in that little bit of information to think that i was or could be carrying. This thought, and situational awareness, has kept me out of trouble at all times of day or niight through Midtown Manhattan, as well as all over Philadelphia for 20 plus years.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to lovmuffin)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 7:34:35 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Success in these situations, defined as stopping the shooter, is never incumbent on people being armed.

I agree. They should have simply asked the guy to use a silencer so as not to disturb their enjoyment of the movie. The killing spreeers just have no consideration for the cultural enjoyment of their fellow men! Philistines!

Wait a moment: I do not agree. I do think that theaters ought to have a gun policy: every visitor should be obligated to have a gun at both hips and a shotgun between their legs.

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 7:35:15 AM

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

How do you identify a target in a dark theater filled with tear gas?...Next theater you attend are you wearing a gas mask and carrying a firearm?

His spidey sense, no doubt.

Or maybe the muzzle flashes?

Ah. How to shoot multiple people 101.

Please don't go hunting. People here like to have clear targets so they don't shoot each other.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/21/2012 7:37:26 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 7:38:10 AM

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

How do you identify a target in a dark theater filled with tear gas?...Next theater you attend are you wearing a gas mask and carrying a firearm?

His spidey sense, no doubt.

Everyone needs night vision gogs, altho that may hurt like hell in a thratre any time there is a daylight scene or an explosion

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 7:38:23 AM

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

The point that hasn't been adressed yet is that this took place in a concealed carry state, and nobody tried to take a shot at the tooled up cretin while he was murdering people with impunity.

Given that the self defence argument is the standard justification for concealed carry, that's an argument for more stringent gun control in itself, isn't it?

How so? First, what are the odds of a CC even being in the theater? Second, does the theater have a no guns policy? Third, is there state law in CO prohibiting carry in a ticketed venue?

So, is it an argument for more stringent gun control in itself or is it an argument about theater policy (or law stating guns are not allowed anywhere where one buys a ticket for admittance), both being forms of gun control?

If a concealed carry might have made a difference, and had such been present but for policy or law, the fault lies with gun control itself.

Because, whenever something like this happens, there's immediately a few internet tough guys like yourself insisting that if it wasn't for all of these evil liberals and their gun control, then somebody else would have slotted the tosser before they killed anybody.
In this case that obviously didn't happen.

Might a concealed carry have made a difference? Who the fuck knows! Why wasn't there a CC there? Theater policy? State law? Just wasn't one?

Who the fuck says I'm an internet tough guy except you? STOP being an asshole. You're falling all over yourself to try and score some personal point. It's disgusting.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Moonhead)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 7:38:25 AM

Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

There you have it. Legalize nuclear weapons. From RealOne, the Reason Machine.

OMG, they're illegal??? Sorry gotta go, have some work in the garage.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 7:39:44 AM

Posts: 2
Joined: 5/3/2012
Status: offline

I guess this is the usual UK view, but we have much tighter gun laws and much fewer shootings. Seems like a pretty simple equation.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 7:44:08 AM

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

Look, if you guys want to let someone as dishonest as Ken define the conditions of the engagement, and the terms of the argument, ya'll have fun with that, but considering the events (as presented in the press conference yesterday) involved this guy popping off 50-60 rounds in a minute, I'd say it was pretty easy to figure out who was doing the shooting.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 7:45:24 AM

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

The point that hasn't been adressed yet is that this took place in a concealed carry state, and nobody tried to take a shot at the tooled up cretin while he was murdering people with impunity.

Given that the self defence argument is the standard justification for concealed carry, that's an argument for more stringent gun control in itself, isn't it?

How so? First, what are the odds of a CC even being in the theater? Second, does the theater have a no guns policy? Third, is there state law in CO prohibiting carry in a ticketed venue?

So, is it an argument for more stringent gun control in itself or is it an argument about theater policy (or law stating guns are not allowed anywhere where one buys a ticket for admittance), both being forms of gun control?

If a concealed carry might have made a difference, and had such been present but for policy or law, the fault lies with gun control itself.

Because, whenever something like this happens, there's immediately a few internet tough guys like yourself insisting that if it wasn't for all of these evil liberals and their gun control, then somebody else would have slotted the tosser before they killed anybody.
In this case that obviously didn't happen.

Might a concealed carry have made a difference? Who the fuck knows! Why wasn't there a CC there? Theater policy? State law? Just wasn't one?

Who the fuck says I'm an internet tough guy except you? STOP being an asshole. You're falling all over yourself to try and score some personal point. It's disgusting.

I'm just reminded of all of the drivel that was spouted after the shootings in Oslo a couple of years back: "Oh, if it wasn't for the nanny state gun control in Europe it wouldn't have happened".
So when it did happen in a country that doesn't have nanny state gun control, what's your excuse?

also, see post 67 below.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 7:56:18 AM

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
I'm just reminded of all of the drivel that was spouted after the shootings in Oslo a couple of years back: "Oh, if it wasn't for the nanny state gun control in Europe it wouldn't have happened".
So when it did happen in a country that doesn't have nanny state gun control, what's your excuse?

also, see post 67 below.

Really now! Your own above screams that gun control fails across the board as such shit happens regardless. "Oh, if it wasn't for the nanny state gun control in Europe it wouldn't have happened" is idiotic as the presence of defensive firearms does not negate, or prevent in the first instance, the overt offensive act. Defensive firearms only have the potential to mitigate it.

You dance premature.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 7/21/2012 7:58:16 AM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Moonhead)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 7:59:17 AM

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

someone as dishonest as

Lot of that going around. Hope you feel better soon.
Every time something like this comes up, everybody's a fucking special ops marksman.

Clue: shooting in a crowded theater, you're going to hit people.
That's among the reasons the police wisely didn't just go crashing in to get shot and shoot others.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 8:01:11 AM

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

there is absolutely no success if one is unarmed whether the venue is lit, dark, whatever.

And that is why 99%+ of people have no business ever touching a firearm much less carrying a loaded weapon in public.

If someone was close enough and level headed enough to draw and shoot the shooter without hitting anyone else or getting killed themselves they were close enough to tackle and bring down the shooter as well, which after all would have been the safer approach.

Success in these situations, defined as stopping the shooter, is never incumbent on people being armed.

Watch the vid I linked to.

Ok, lets get you post. Your response to there is absolutely no success if one is unarmed whether the venue is lit, dark, whatever is And that is why 99%+ of people have no business ever touching a firearm much less carrying a loaded weapon in public.

I do not see the link between what you quoted and what you state. You have two unrelated issues there. One does not follow from the other.

What is close enough? Would 12 feet do? Again, watch the vid. Her dad did just what you said should be done. He died.

Now Success in these situations, defined as stopping the shooter, is never incumbent on people being armed is partially correct. Defense is not incumbent on being armed, but being armed is way more preferable than not. Would you prefer rushing an armed man?

No link is in the post I responded to.

The link is firearms give people, dumb people, foolish bravery. Drawing down and shooting at the shooter in a dark chaotic theater with people trying to escape is just about the dumbest idea I've ever heard. Anyone who thinks it would have been the right thing to do should permanently be prevented from ever touching a firearm.

Preferable in these situations is being level headed and brave. Consider for instance the case of the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Church and Jim Adkisson. A man with a shotgun intent on killing everyone in the church was stopped by completely unarmed pacifists. Greg Mckendry stood between his friends and the gun and paid the ultimate price but it gave time for 4 of his friends to tackle and restrain the shooter. None of them needed a gun to do what had to be done.

Bravery does not flow from the barrel of a gun.

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 8:04:38 AM

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Someone on another site trotted out the tired sound bites. "What about hunters?" I live in a rural area, and no one hunts with automatic weapons. Deer aren't that hard to kill. "When guns are illegal, only the criminals will have guns." Right--like only the criminals have nuclear weapons, and only the criminals get to kill, and only the criminals speed, and only the criminals drive drunk...it's pseudo-reasoning, not an honest look at the question.

thats fucking absurd. you can get a nuke if you want, they start about 3/4 of mil.

the only criminals will have guns reasoning is both sound and proven, so the only tired rhetoric is yours.

There you have it. Legalize nuclear weapons. From RealOne, the Reason Machine.

I said a nuke, not nuclear weapons and they are already legal.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 8:06:37 AM

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
No link is in the post I responded to.

Here, let me help you.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 8:08:53 AM

Posts: 21
Joined: 7/3/2012
Status: offline

Quite likely will get flamed for this but for Me, gun control is hitting what I aim for. I firmly believe that this shooter would NOT have walked into that theater if he had strong reason to suspect a very real and probable chance existed that some or most of his "Victims" would be armed. Instead, he was able to be almost assured that would NOT be the case with the "gun free" sign at the front door. Sheep.

I Hunt. I Own rifles and shotguns for that purpose.

I carry. It is not for deer, rabbits or squirrels, it is for crazy asshats.
Why does My Pistol hold 15 rounds... because sometimes there may be Alot of asshats.
Why Do I load with AP ammo.... Because Asshats sometimes wear armor.

At home, I have an AR, A Sk and a 12 gauge... Because sometimes Asshats come in groups.

You have the right to be unarmed...and bury your family members if you are ever faced with a situation where someone is willing and capable of doing deadly harm. I have the right to Be Armed... and Arm My family.... It increases the odds that the funeral will NOT be of someone I care for.

Police officers respond After the crime is committed.... try to survive long enough to let them.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 8:11:38 AM

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Greg Mckendry stood between his friends and the gun and paid the ultimate price but it gave time for 4 of his friends to tackle and restrain the shooter. None of them needed a gun to do what had to be done.

Bravery does not flow from the barrel of a gun.

You're right! Lead does

One does what needs be done with tools at hand. None of them needed a gun to do what had to be done. True. But they did need one thing. Their friend's life. A Colt .45 would have cost less.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 7/21/2012 8:14:16 AM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 8:17:23 AM

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

someone as dishonest as (Ken)

Lot of that going around. Hope you feel better soon.
Every time something like this comes up, everybody's a fucking special ops marksman.

Clue: shooting in a crowded theater, you're going to hit people.
That's among the reasons the police wisely didn't just go crashing in to get shot and shoot others.

Try paying attention, Muse. If you bothered to do that, you'd know I had already agreed with you about walking around armed all the time. My objection is to letting a dishonest poster define the terms.

I've had guns pointed at me. I've heard the sound of a round being chambered in a gun pointed at the back of my head. I know what my instinctive reaction to that is. I suspect most our Rambo's in here haven't a fucking clue.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 7/21/2012 8:18:06 AM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 8:21:30 AM

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Try paying attention, Muse. If you bothered to do that, you'd know I had already agreed with you about walking around armed all the time. My objection is to letting a dishonest poster define the terms.

I saw that.

And if you were paying attention, you'd have noticed I wasn't talking to or about Ken.

My take is nicely summarized in the cartoon I posted.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 8:22:17 AM

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

No matter what you ban, some nutcase will find a way to inflict harm, if they are crazy enough to try. The ban or lack of firearms in the middle east only seems to cause the development of more creative IED's. If someone wants to kill a bunch of people they will find a way.

Oh for shit sake stop with the sound reasoning already, the gun banners will piss themselves.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to atursvcMaam)

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 8:23:23 AM

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

No matter what you ban, some nutcase will find a way

...and that's why nothing should be illegal, because some nutcase will find a way.

It works so well in Somalia.

(in reply to Real0ne)

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives?

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.094