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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/23/2012 5:15:18 AM   
IronWithVelvet


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Genuine anger is not a part of any of my punishment scenes, but feigned anger is at times. IMO a Dom or Domme should control and master his/her own anger before doing unto others what he/she cannot do for himself or herself.

If a scene goes well, here is what I feel.
What I feel before is anticipation, excitement, passion and a sense of challenge
What I feel during is a sense of purpose, responsibility, happiness, control and passion
What I feel after is satisfaction, compassion and passionate joy

(in reply to kalikshama)
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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/23/2012 10:55:08 AM   
LadyPact


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Kana saved Me a lot of typing. A few things I would add though.

Not all punishment is corporal. I use it less than anything else. Like Kana alluded to, you're kind of taking the fun out of My sadism at that point. I don't believe in play punishment. If we've gotten to the point of Me calling it punishment, nobody is having a good time.

The other (and a number of s types don't like this) is that punishment doesn't have to be immediate. If you have managed to piss Me off to the point where I shouldn't be striking somebody, you can deal with having to wait until I'm no longer in that frame of mind. That can be anything from get yourself to the corner for fifteen minutes to giving you the time that I will be dealing with the issue with you. Don't like that anxious state where you're just waiting for your punishment? It's real simple. Don't piss Me off to that point.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/23/2012 11:05:00 AM   
MalcolmNathaniel


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I agree with LadyPact on this. If I'm actually angry I am in no state of mind to discipline a sub.

When you have a cat or dog getting into something it shouldn't you have to thwap it's nose or use a squirt-gun at the time it's happening.

Unlike domesticated animals, humans have a sense of time: they can be punished later and associate the punishment with the error.

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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/23/2012 10:35:28 PM   
Kana


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quote:

If you have managed to piss Me off to the point where I shouldn't be striking somebody, you can deal with having to wait until I'm no longer in that frame of mind. That can be anything from get yourself to the corner for fifteen minutes to giving you the time that I will be dealing with the issue with you. Don't like that anxious state where you're just waiting for your punishment? It's real simple. Don't piss Me off to that point.


Can I get an amen.
Sistah preaching to the choir here.

In life, not just BDSM, I rarely lose my cool. As in it's been about five years since I last lost my temper. But when I'm really pissed, when I'm getting close to blowing my top, saying and doing things I'll regret later, I just walk.
Give me a few minutes, a half hour or so to step back, catch myself, gain control of my emotions, do some internal inspections to discover what's really got me going, then I can deal with shit.
So not only do I not punish when angry, I don't even lay out consequences.
The best a gal is gonna get outta me at that point is an , "I'll tell you later.Right now I'm not in the right frame of mind to make a sound decision"
And if she don't like that, well, tough noogies...

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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/23/2012 11:16:46 PM   
littlewonder


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Since Master and I have never really gotten into any serious argument yet, I keep picturing both of us standing back to back and taking 10 paces to cool off since we both do the same thing when angry lol.


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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/24/2012 5:04:45 AM   
Exidor


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"Angry" is not the same thing as "out of control."

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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/24/2012 7:10:23 AM   
kiwisub12


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My first Sir very seldom was angry with me, and the one time i can recall, he put my face to the wall, and told me not to move.
It was painful, quiet and very horrible for me. Lots of time for reflection.....

The spanking, caning and so on was for fun, not punishment and we both knew that.

He told me when i first moved into his house that he wouldnever strike me in anger. Good rule and he kept it. And i have to say, regarding standing at the wall, i would have rather had 10 of his best ( and his best were skin breakers!).

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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/24/2012 12:40:47 PM   
littlewonder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Exidor

"Angry" is not the same thing as "out of control."

Kana here
Actually, speaking only for myself, it does.
Anger means I'm letting my emotions run me, not the other way around.

Now, let's be clear here, add that for me angry is a whole lot different than irked or pissed or irritated or any of the other lesser levels on the Irate Scale. Angry means I'm upset to the point I'm gonna lose my cool and start saying and doing things I'll regret later.

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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/24/2012 1:01:01 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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What Kana said. I don't do "angry" very often, and it's a good thing for everyone. Genuine anger is when I have to leave the vicinity for the safety of other living creatures.

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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/24/2012 1:33:11 PM   
Muttling


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I haven't read that thread, and I do have a punishment dynamic. I will say, there's a difference between controlled anger and uncontrolled anger. Hitting while controlled - angry or not - is not an issue for me. I can't say he's hit uncontrolled. It's not whether you're angry or not, it's whether or not you're in control.





Miss and I also have a punishment dynamic, but it's never out of anger. Something that serious for either of us is something we deal with on the vanilla side.

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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/24/2012 5:01:53 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I haven't read that thread, and I do have a punishment dynamic. I will say, there's a difference between controlled anger and uncontrolled anger. Hitting while controlled - angry or not - is not an issue for me. I can't say he's hit uncontrolled. It's not whether you're angry or not, it's whether or not you're in control.





Miss and I also have a punishment dynamic, but it's never out of anger. Something that serious for either of us is something we deal with on the vanilla side.

We don't really have "sides" - it's just he and I, dealing with whatever we're dealing with (good, bad, indifferent). I have only seen him angry once and he did not hit or punish me, he just raised his voice to me about something. Typically if we're angry, we just talk through it.

I have been hit and yelled at in anger before, in the past. A lot. It was very important to me to know how someone dealt with their emotions, before giving myself over. When we were still getting to know each other, I asked him how he dealt with his anger. He said he used to lash out, but has it pretty well under control now, and in fact hardly gets angry anymore.

I also used to have anger issues, and learned how to recognize anger as an emotion, but not let it control me. I'm rarely angry but when I do get mad, I can feel the emotion coming over me and I recognize it for what it is, and my temper does not take over.

If he was still in the place where he could not control his words and actions when angry, I either would not have stayed, or we'd have a completely different relationship right now. Uncontrolled anger scares the hell out of me - it's too unpredictable.

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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/24/2012 5:53:34 PM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

I wanna add one thing.
I've been a boss, owned my own companies and such things and as part of the job, you have to hand out consequences. Sometimes it's a chat in the office, sometimes its a letter in the ole employee file, sometimes it's a suspension and then there are times ya have to fire folks. Which sucks, cuz you know, these people are dependant on the job, sometimes they have families, sometimes they've been friends as well as employees
When I was a kid it used to bother me a lot to can folks, sometimes even when they had it coming. But then I realized that I'm not the guy who fired them, they did that by their actions, I'm just the guy standing there saying the words...but they did it to themselves.
Learning that lil tidbit took most of the sting out and made it a whole lot easier to do what had to be done..
I use that a lot when I lay out consequences.


I'm curious that you took no responsibility for having hired them in the first place.
Because that's part of being a good manager, figuring who will be a good fit to begin with.

Being good at the job is one thing, management skills are another.

And you speak only of punishment/consequences. Not about your skill at turning them around so they became productive team members. Inspiring them and giving positive reinforcement.




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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/24/2012 10:38:40 PM   
ARIES83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

I wanna add one thing.
I've been a boss, owned my own companies and such things and as part of the job, you have to hand out consequences. Sometimes it's a chat in the office, sometimes its a letter in the ole employee file, sometimes it's a suspension and then there are times ya have to fire folks. Which sucks, cuz you know, these people are dependant on the job, sometimes they have families, sometimes they've been friends as well as employees
When I was a kid it used to bother me a lot to can folks, sometimes even when they had it coming. But then I realized that I'm not the guy who fired them, they did that by their actions, I'm just the guy standing there saying the words...but they did it to themselves.
Learning that lil tidbit took most of the sting out and made it a whole lot easier to do what had to be done..
I use that a lot when I lay out consequences.


I'm curious that you took no responsibility for having hired them in the first place.
Because that's part of being a good manager, figuring who will be a good fit to begin with.

Being good at the job is one thing, management skills are another.

And you speak only of punishment/consequences. Not about your skill at turning them around so they became productive team members. Inspiring them and giving positive reinforcement.





Des.... Have you been in a position where you had to
manage a bunch of workers, organize and keep them
doing their job, fired people? If you have fine, but as
far as im concerned, I am a friendly, fair and am more
than willing to do what I can to see people don't fuck
themselves up but having said that I don't have time
to be a mentor to every dude that walks in the door.
And it is them fucking themselves up, either their
not showing up or fooling around on the job or whatever,
but there is a job to be done aswell and getting it done
is my job... all you can do really is give them warnings
and lead by example, and there is HR stuff sometimes
that has forced my hand ect...

I could say heeps but i'll just say for now, I disagree with
all your criticism of Kana.

-ARIES


< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 7/24/2012 10:41:40 PM >


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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/25/2012 3:54:35 AM   
Kana


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quote:

I'm curious that you took no responsibility for having hired them in the first place.
Because that's part of being a good manager, figuring who will be a good fit to begin with.

Being good at the job is one thing, management skills are another.

And you speak only of punishment/consequences. Not about your skill at turning them around so they became productive team members. Inspiring them and giving positive reinforcement.



1-Now that's a nice assumption. Point of fact, I've looked guys in the eye, said, "I thought you might be a good fit here and that we would be good for you but I was mistaken and this isn't working out. For the good of the organization, it's time you moved on."

2-I'm talking consequences because, you know, this is a thread that's been pretty much bending that way for a while.

3-You jest? You mean finding good fits is important? Hmmm, I never learned that in my MBA or in my years in the corporate world. And here I was thinking you just hired anyone and it could be made to work. I don't know where you are coming from here or where you developed the implication that I lack management skills, but you would be dead wrong there. I've worked for fortune 500 companies, the state legislature, universities, done efficiency consulting for major companies, been a life coach, done social work and self improvement mentoring, put on skill seminars and been asked to give training speeches in front of thousands. But if ya really wanna know bout my management skills, don't ask me, why would you trust my opinion-ask the lilone....she's hung out for six years for some reason or the other...


I don't know what world you live in but there ain't a company out there that doesn't have some sort of turnover ratio. Sometimes circumstances change and folks are no longer happy, they get denied a promotion, Bob gets the corner office, the company got bought out and they ain't happy bout the new bosses, the R&D budget got cut, they don't get the right benefits, John their good friend, drinking partner and boss retired and they haven't been willing to work with anyone since, they develop a coke habit, they dated Barb in accounting and now that they broke up he's been a creepy stalker-WTF knows-people do weird shit.
Then, sometimes, especially in management type roles, in many industries, service industries in particular, there's a pretty standard turnover rate simply because new blood is needed, places get complacent(Think chain restaurants for example. Like baseball managers, those guys are hired to be fired). It's just the nature of the beast.
Sometimes, do what you may you gotta let someone go.
What you are doing is assuming that it's like-Bang, out of nowhere you are fired.

Things don't work like that(Well, at least not in smart organizations). Companies spend lots of money in the hiring process, lots more in training. It's an idiotic organization that just flows through employees. That's essentially burning money, which is flat out dumb. With any worthwhile employee there are usually several intermediary disciplinary steps (Often ones that the company is legally bound by it's own internal HR policies to follow-I mean fuck, look at Penn State-they can't fire their sleazebag lying ex president right now and may have difficulty doing so until he gets charged with perjury) and those are just the official ones. Usually there's any number of conversations, maybe a verbal warning or two,a discussion outside of work over coffee.
In BDSM we would call these things consequences

And the reason I bring this up is because it's often assumed or implied that Doms do this to slaves. Just bang, "Oh, you spilled the milk-you're outta here. Pack your shit and be gone in twenty minutes."
Or, even better, some insane act will be demanded, "Cut off both your thumbs before I count to ten or you're no longer my slave."
Things don't work like that...at least not in my house.
I wanna point out two things:
A-Yeah the door is always open, but that swings both ways. She can always look at me any time she wants and say, "You are flipping deluded. I'm outta here." and split
B-And this is the big one-If I was the kind of cat who made irrational ridiculous demands, do you really think she would have trusted me not just with her surrender, but her heart as well? The reason she ceded to me is because she knows, as in knowsknowsknows that she is safe with me, that I wouldn't do something drastic without a good reason and that if it was something serious enough to leave her considering the door as a viable option, she would damn well know it had to be vastly important if I was willing to risk losing her over it.

Purely as a side note, I can't tell ya how ironic I find it that the practicing sadists here often seem to have more faith in female subs/slaves that many of the female sub/slaves here do.
I think it's very telling.
What it tells, I dunno.
But it says something...




< Message edited by Kana -- 7/25/2012 4:17:17 AM >


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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/25/2012 4:16:12 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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Using FR:

I don't hit in anger (it takes quite a bit to get me angry, most days) and I don't take my stress out on people.

An enraged dom is not a controlled dom, and that's bad news to me.

On a bit off topic note, I've managed many people over the years; some you can't inspire to be in your corner, b/c for whatever reason, they don't want to be. And yes, you have to let them go. Just my own two cents on that point.



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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/25/2012 8:35:15 AM   
DesFIP


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Kana, you didn't mention the other half of the equation. You rarely do. You prefer to talk about punishment, presumably because you enjoy dishing them out.

Therefore I'm wondering if you tend to give short shrift to inspiring and helping someone succeed, because you enjoy punishing someone.

After all, if they fail on their own merits, with you not taking any responsibility as you first said, then doesn't that mean that any success of theirs is also on their own merits, without any credit going to you?

And saying "I thought you would fit in here, I was wrong" is a lot different than saying "I need to improve at picking people who will fit and this is what I'm going to do to improve".

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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/25/2012 12:38:39 PM   
Kana


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quote:

Kana, you didn't mention the other half of the equation. You rarely do. You prefer to talk about punishment, presumably because you enjoy dishing them out.


You know what they say about assumptions...

Maybe, just maybe, I talk about consequences because that's what the threads are on. I've repeatedly stated my distaste for the punishment complex as well as handing out consequences, consistently stated that I think if you have to punish frequently after an initial adjustment period that the fault is most likely his, talked about how it disturbs the harmony of both myself and my house, and that I think weak folks need to rule by intimidation and fear, that chains made with love are much much stronger than those forged of fear.
Not just that but I'm on the public record as stating that I think a dom does a whole lot more than just sexual tyranny, that there's a whole lot of responsibility involved, that if she isn't a better person for having known me that I believe that I've failed in my primary responsibility as a dominant and that it's on me to create the structure for a healthy whole relationship to grow and flourish.

Or you could, you know, read what the littleone writes about our relationship and take her word, not mine.

But you read what you wanna read and hear what you wanna hear and you make vast assumptions out of nowhere that aren't even kinda connected to the truth or the reality of my life and what I do within my relationships and that's kinda insulting.

So I'm outta this discussion..because you ain't listening to what I'm saying and are instead following the script in your head about who and what you think I am and do...




_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/25/2012 2:10:49 PM   
LadyPact


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< Message edited by LadyPact -- 7/25/2012 2:12:52 PM >


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/25/2012 2:27:55 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

You prefer to talk about punishment, presumably because you enjoy dishing them out.

Therefore I'm wondering if you tend to give short shrift to inspiring and helping someone succeed, because you enjoy punishing someone.


While he didn't mention it earlier on this thread, I have heard Kana talk about leadership quite often, as well as taking responsibility when he gives bad directions.

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(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: Don't hit when angry? - 7/25/2012 4:10:03 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
So I'm outta this discussion..because you ain't listening to what I'm saying and are instead following the script in your head about who and what you think I am and do...

don't talk your ball and go home haha, I tend to agree
with most the things you write, except the more freaky
Vaginal fishhook type things which arn't my sceen...

I think the only problem with desfip's ideas are, yes two
much assumption. Not just about you, but also about being
a boss.
Yer every boss is diffrent in their approach but I think Desfip
may have some romantic view of it, and not the reality.

And really.... Im all about responsibility but saying that
because i hired someone and they didn't work out it's
my fault for not being able see into the future is stupid,
People are unpredictable and you can't know what someones
like until you get to know them. You just be fair and even
handed to everyone and give them the opportunity to
succeed what happens from there is completely not under
anyones control except theirs...

Don't mistake being a leader at work and being a Dom at play
the two work very differently in my experience, yes there are
common aspects but...
My personal relationships are based on affection, love and care
even though i'm a big scary Dom... My work relationships are
based on showing fairness and respect while treating people as
adults and expecting adult behaviour and the work to be done
before fucking around.

-ARIES


_____________________________

530 DAYS

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 40
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