RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle

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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 8/22/2012 2:09:48 PM

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Peon, my darling, the man I want to do nasty things to....

no. Spanking is spanking.

pearl necklaces are not what they seem. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIJtlozd-Tw

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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 8/22/2012 2:12:19 PM

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I love you, Greedy. I knew what that link was before I clicked it.

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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 8/22/2012 2:13:30 PM

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I love you too, and I knew you would twig to it ;)

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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 8/22/2012 2:48:05 PM

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Yes! Hot lesbo action tonight!

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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 8/22/2012 2:49:28 PM

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Peon, you slut ;)

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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 8/22/2012 3:23:58 PM

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quote:

I'm late to the game but wanted to give my opinion:

When I give a gift, I give it expecting nothing in return except a "thank you".

Saying submission is a gift, is like giving a gift, expecting something in return and putting conditions and terms on how you have to take care of that gift otherwise it will be taken away from you.

That was well explained and made an impact. Holden Caulfield hated "gifts" for this very reason, he never felt that strings were not attached.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/22/2012 3:25:22 PM >

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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 8/22/2012 3:48:16 PM

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Hello DP -

quote:

I am generous because I have an investment in that perception of myself, so when I give, the giving to another "feeds" me and my sense of self, goodness and purpose, which is very self-soothing. That is my payoff.

This is spot on from my perspective. I can even remember when I realized that kind of thing. In my social psych class a thousand years ago, we had 1st a meditation and then a discussion about the positive things people get from negative things. I was just a bright eyed hopeful kitten back then and felt like my world had been slammed upside down. Some of the ideas that came up AS POSSIBILITIES: Pretending to be stupid meant people talked freely in front of you, arguing meant you got attention, being overweight meant less hassle around sexuality, having an affair meant saving a sexless marriage, giving money to a charity so that you could feel good about yourself and preen.

My face went like this:

and my brain like this:

It was a turning point in my life. It was perhaps even my welcome-to-critical-thinking moment. We have a whole lot planned for you now that your eyes are open!

Thank you for your post. It made me remember that poor innocent girl that I was and the sheer joy of discovering a whole new world.

Hi NV -
I really like this that you said. It seems very salient to what I'm trying to say. Elegantly put, darling.

quote:

But it's me - the complete whole woman - who is a gift to him. Not a singling out of one aspect of me (submission).

My ability to live being true to myself is my own gift to myself (I see it this way after having denied myself the freedom of being "me" for a very long time).

So yeah, we're gifts, but I'm not giving him me as a gift; the universe is. Just as the universe gave him everything else in his life, and gave me everything else in my life.

I was really pleased to read that. It seems like we are of the same mind.

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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 8/22/2012 4:07:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

I'm late to the game but wanted to give my opinion:

When I give a gift, I give it expecting nothing in return except a "thank you".

Saying submission is a gift, is like giving a gift, expecting something in return and putting conditions and terms on how you have to take care of that gift otherwise it will be taken away from you.

That was well explained and made an impact. Holden Caulfield hated "gifts" for this very reason, he never felt that strings were not attached.

Really?

Funny - I saw that as completely contradictory. OG says that giving a gift, for her, implies that no strings are attached. But, for some reason, giving the gift of *submission* is an exception - that particular kind of gift is misnamed because it automatically implies that strings *are* attached. Why the difference?

Nup. I think I agree with sunshinemiss, here: the argument is turning on semantics, prior experiences and the general belief that 'there is only one meaning and it is mine'.

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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 8/22/2012 4:16:02 PM

pyschosubmission

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Someone say lesbian?

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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 8/22/2012 4:33:03 PM

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quote:

Holden Caulfield hated "gifts" for this very reason, he never felt that strings were not attached.

Yay for the "Catcher in the Rye" reference!

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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 8/22/2012 8:58:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

And now you see why Cali is my sister. Though I do not laugh, not as such. There is some appalled pearl clutching,

I will admit to a triple-take at the phrase 'pearl clutching'.

I think I have a dirty mind, cos the phrase 'pearl necklace' came to mind, and not the kind a nice lady would wear to lunch

LOL, you are indeed a bad bunny for thinking that. Normally I have a dirty mind, but the image I conjured up when she said pearl clutching was just beyond funny; a lovely dichotomy to what we talk about here. I love the duality of things.

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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 8/23/2012 8:17:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

I'm late to the game but wanted to give my opinion:

When I give a gift, I give it expecting nothing in return except a "thank you".

Saying submission is a gift, is like giving a gift, expecting something in return and putting conditions and terms on how you have to take care of that gift otherwise it will be taken away from you.

That was well explained and made an impact. Holden Caulfield hated "gifts" for this very reason, he never felt that strings were not attached.

I've experienced both.

When I give something I really have no expectations, just a hope that the recipient enjoys it.

I know a woman who will give lavish gifts, create lavish parties for others. Yet, there is an unspoken expectation of reciprocation. If she does not receive whatever it is she expects in return (and no, appreciation and thanks are sooooooooo not enough for her) then her generosity dries up very quickly. She is a very passive aggressive manipulative person. Gifts, etc........are just one of her methods.

The whole 'gift of submission' I don't really have strong feelings about either way. MOST of the time, it's a phrase that is used in a way that totally turns me off. But there are people that explain why they feel that way, that can make sense. It's just kind of a "meh..." to me.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 8/23/2012 10:24:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
I choose to give my time, energy, money to certain causes, people, beliefs. My time, energy, and money have worth. To me this is a gift.

The "it's not a gift" people usually argue that it's *not* since you expect something in return. I've never seen anyone give a gift who didn't expect *something* in return (whatever that something might be). By that standard, even a gift isn't a gift.

The whole debate strikes me as kind of silly. Why do people get all het up when someone defines a word slightly differently than they do?

Pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 8/23/2012 10:26:14 AM >

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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 8/23/2012 11:36:06 AM

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The Grand Canyon is a slight dip in the landscape.

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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 8/23/2012 2:52:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
The Grand Canyon is a slight dip in the landscape.

Well, for anyone who says "submission is a gift" and really means "submission is an act of pure altruism performed by people who are very, very special and totally unlike the rest of humanity"... you can have at them, as far as I'm concerned.

I suspect not everyone who says that means it that way.

Pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 8/23/2012 2:53:19 PM >

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